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Post by Heather on Jun 3, 2014 1:10:17 GMT -5
Name: Rachel HF Forum Username: RachelD
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
From this site!
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I would like to have Remus on an all raw meat diet, possibly with frozen-thawed whole prey on occasion.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
It's healthier for them in general and I'm hoping it'll slow the onset of insulinoma.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
Yes!
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
I have one ferret, Remus. He's a male, roughly four years old. right now he's weighing in at 1.04kg. He's not underweight but this is on the lighter side of his normal weight range. He has insulinoma and recurring mouth ulcers. I've had him for two years.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup?
The kibble he was on was Wellness Core Kitten Formula, but for the last two days he's had almost only soup, with kibble left out for him when I was gone for a 12 hour shift. He also gets Wellness Pure Rewards Chicken & Lamb Jerky for treats and ferretone.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
Yes, I may try to dig up the thread so I can link it here. We got as far as Remus eating strips of meat about two inches long and 1/4inch across, but he really didn't like the idea of chunks he had to rip and tear. Really didn't seem interested in crunching bones either.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
Right now I have to work 12 hour shifts a couple times a week, but I live with my parents so either they can feed him or I can have a friend stay the night. My boyfriend also lives a couple of hours away so I sometimes will be going to see him--we're trying to work it out so Remus can come with me.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
Pretty much daily. Some weekends I only have my phone in which case I could probably access the forum with that.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
I'm not sure how to insert a picture that's not from a photo sharing site, so I made a tumblr post with a couple of pictures here.
11. Have you met the requirements for this program? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc?
I have a scale. I plan on ordering most of my meat through mypetcarnivore.
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentor (Hurricanekatt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by katt on Jun 3, 2014 1:14:03 GMT -5
Location: Anchorage, Alaska I became a mentor because... I really like helping people (hence the whole becoming a doctor thing) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, I got him when he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009, Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and he immediately ripped into it and started hissing to keep me away from his tasty prize! Neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first ferret and he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several foreign objects, and is constantly finding new trouble to get into (his nose has a rubber detector in it). He had to have an emergency blockage surgery, which (we believe) ended up being the catalyst that resulted in his IBD. He loves digging the carpet up, or more recently chewing it, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), he will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… He has IBD which we struggled to get control of (and finally succeeded!) with diet. He has recently had a second blockage surgery, and this week he will be getting his second Des implant for juvenile adrenal. He's been a handful, that's for sure! Kenai: male, Silver/Black Roan Mitt. I brought Kenai home towards the end of November 2010 when he was about 7-8 weeks old. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, frankenprey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He finally started shedding some fur and a little winter weight and is slimming up, but he is still a clumsy critter. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I thought Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpleton. He has trouble finding the potty box a lot, and he doesn’t learn very fast. He also is much less physically adept at things – he has trouble climbing and getting into/onto/out of things. He is sloooowly figuring out how to control his floppy body, but he definitely has some developmental delays. But, we love him just the same. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home, but I had started researching a few months prior to that. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! My boys are fed frankenprey, f/t rodents, and live prey. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poops were HUGE and smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur. Type of Mentor: Full switches only! I feed a frankenprey and whole prey diet - raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and occasionally freeze dried raw and commercially ground raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help with picking a good kibble. I absolutely do NOT do partial switches. My Specialty: Trouble makers! I focus entirely on full switches to raw – no more kibble! I "specialize" in ferrets with IBD and food allergies, many of who may need to do food trials. I have been through quite the ringer myself in that field with my boys. I do just about any type of switch including switches to Frankenprey, whole prey (live or f/t), and commercial raw (whole and grinds) but I will NOT do partial switches.
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Post by katt on Jun 3, 2014 1:15:49 GMT -5
Hi! Glad to be working with you! Let's start out with a full description of your current feeding routine. What are they eating, how much, how often do you feed, do you free roam or cage feed, etc etc. The more detail the better. Once I am updated on that, we will go from there!
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Post by katt on Jun 3, 2014 2:11:21 GMT -5
Bumping this purely to keep it on my feed, not because I expect you to have replied in the past 5 minutes lol
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Post by racheld on Jun 3, 2014 3:17:59 GMT -5
Hi! I'm so excited to get started! Right now Remus is on thick soup (no water added) and yesterday I introduced slivers of gizzard. He's doing well if I spoon or hand feed him, but he's been very reluctant to eat independently in the cage. I did have a breakthrough today though, he went to the bowl and licked a bit up on his own--even one of the slivers! I feed him twice a day before giving him his meds and leave soup in his cage for him in between. Because he's not been eating on his own he's only been eating about two 'soup cubes' per day--I'm not sure on the weight but I'll start keeping track. Yesterday the vet and I discussed the possibility of Remus having a mild sensitivity to chicken, because he's had recurring mouth ulcers since I brought him home and chicken is the only thing that seems to have been consistent the whole time. I'm not sure if I should switch to another protein right away or keep working with him with chicken (since I have it) until he's more comfortable on raw. Hmm...that's all I can think of right now. I'll get a starting weight when I get home from work and start keeping track of how much he eats.
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Post by racheld on Jun 3, 2014 6:38:57 GMT -5
When I got home he was sniffing around/licking at the soup in his cage, and when I gave him his pre-med meal he ate 18g for me, gizzard bits and all. I'm thinking I'll add more slivers to the soup I have to increase the ratio of soft to solid.
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Post by racheld on Jun 3, 2014 13:37:44 GMT -5
Saw him licking a bit from the plate again this afternoon. I'll stop all spoon feeding during the day and only do it in the morning and at night before meds.
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Post by racheld on Jun 3, 2014 20:13:17 GMT -5
He totaled 43g today. Only ate about 7g without being spoon fed.
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Post by katt on Jun 4, 2014 1:09:09 GMT -5
Hi! I'm so excited to get started! Right now Remus is on thick soup (no water added) and yesterday I introduced slivers of gizzard. He's doing well if I spoon or hand feed him, but he's been very reluctant to eat independently in the cage. I did have a breakthrough today though, he went to the bowl and licked a bit up on his own--even one of the slivers! Good boy! How big were the slivers that you tried? I feed him twice a day before giving him his meds and leave soup in his cage for him in between. Because he's not been eating on his own he's only been eating about two 'soup cubes' per day--I'm not sure on the weight but I'll start keeping track.Definitely need to weigh him weekly. One day a week (can be any day of your choosing - doesn't really make a difference to me) you should have a post including the following: 1. Ferret's name:2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 4. Stools on various proteins. 5. Activity levels: 6. Weekly menu: A bi-weekly picture from the side and above is also helpful for monitoring his weight. Yesterday the vet and I discussed the possibility of Remus having a mild sensitivity to chicken, because he's had recurring mouth ulcers since I brought him home and chicken is the only thing that seems to have been consistent the whole time. I'm not sure if I should switch to another protein right away or keep working with him with chicken (since I have it) until he's more comfortable on raw.Very possible! Is your vet pro raw then? (If so that is super awesome!) One of the reasons I actually picked you from the list was actually because you mentioned the ulcers...I strongly suspect the possibility of a food sensitivity and maybe even IBD with recurring ulcers like that. I went through quite the ringer with Koda - we did a year of food and supplement trials to get his IBD under control and since then my other boy Kenai has been diagnosed with IBD as well from a biopsy actually. I try to snag the IBD/allergy ferrets when I can. I definitely think that we need to get him off of chicken. Beef allergies are super common, and beef is very rich AND is strongly flavored so it typically takes ferrets a while to get used to. Pork is usually a good one. First though let's figure out what other organs and hearts you have access to, as that will make a big difference. Also, are you able to potentially order from HareToday? They have some organs of the harder to find types (rabbit, goat, etc) and are a good resource for that. It may be something that we want to look into depending on how good or bad your local access to meats are. IF you can find goat organs and meat that would be awesome, goat is very similar to lamb - both are very easy on the digestive system and are extremely rare allergens. Lamb is considered the "hypoallergenic" meat (in quotes bc there is never any such thing in truth lol) and is very gentle on the belly. Goat is similar to lamb. If you don't have easy access to that, pork would be my next choice. Keep feeding the chicken soup for now while we figure out what you have access to and then we will work on switching his soup to the new protein.
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Post by katt on Jun 4, 2014 1:09:59 GMT -5
Saw him licking a bit from the plate again this afternoon. I'll stop all spoon feeding during the day and only do it in the morning and at night before meds. Good boy! As long as you are SURE he is eating on his own. How controlled is his insu on his meds right now?
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Post by racheld on Jun 4, 2014 7:12:38 GMT -5
The slivers he's eating are about the size of peas, I guess. If I start him on pork or another new protein today should I start him back at the soup stage or try to stick to chunks? My vet isn't exactly pro-raw, he just agreed that chicken may be the problem and thought it was a good idea to try taking him off it. He doesn't really actively encourage me to stay on kibble though. I think as long as Remus seems healthy and alert he trusts me to choose what to feed him. I have today off so I'll do some searching for pork and pork liver/heart, and maybe other meat sources. Last time I tried the transition it was kind of tricky to find anything like that, though. MyPetCarnivore does dropoffs about twenty minutes from my house so I can order fine ground and rough ground rabbit and maybe some other proteins to try with him. The next dropoff isn't until 6/26 though. He's not eaten much on his own, but I've seen him licking at it so I know he knows it's food and is just being stubborn, which is why I want to stop spoon feeding other than when I have to. I feel pretty safe doing that because for now his insulinoma is well controlled with the pred. I'll get his weight this afternoon, but for now: He eats about 18g when I spoon feed him but only 2-5g independently His stools have been small, dark, and kind of sticky. Not formed but not especially soft. His activity has been sort of low, which has been discussed on a different thread. Could be the all-chicken diet, if he does have a sensitivity. He's been on a chicken soup (more like a pudding texture) that's probably about 40% chunks and 60% soup
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Post by racheld on Jun 4, 2014 11:27:00 GMT -5
Weeellll I went to the place that's the go-to for organic meat and I found pork but they didn't have pork heart or pork liver. I didn't see any beef liver there either. I can check other stores but most of the grocery stores around here are from one chain and they don't carry much in the way of organic meat. I might be able to find beef tongue and beef tongue there, but they'll likely have sodium and such added. I was thinking of maybe making a soup with pork, chicken heart, and chicken liver? That way he'd be getting less chicken and it could work until MyPetCarnivore does a drop off. I don't know if that would be better or worse than pork soup with non-organic beef liver/tongue.
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Post by katt on Jun 4, 2014 20:10:15 GMT -5
Weeellll I went to the place that's the go-to for organic meat and I found pork but they didn't have pork heart or pork liver. I didn't see any beef liver there either. I can check other stores but most of the grocery stores around here are from one chain and they don't carry much in the way of organic meat. I might be able to find beef tongue and beef tongue there, but they'll likely have sodium and such added. I was thinking of maybe making a soup with pork, chicken heart, and chicken liver? That way he'd be getting less chicken and it could work until MyPetCarnivore does a drop off. I don't know if that would be better or worse than pork soup with non-organic beef liver/tongue. Well less is not as good as none, but I would like to say it is better than more. My one hesitation is that in a state of chronic inflammation such as is seen in IBD, the immune system can go into overdrive. It then starts attacking and creating antibodies for other non threatening proteins. This can OCCASIONALLY lead to the development of new sensitivities/allergies to previously safe foods. Also if you mix proteins (e.g. beef tongue and pork soup) and he still reacts you don't have any way to tell which protein he is reacting to - the beef or the pork?? These things are why a novel protein (something he has never head before) is ideal (but not always possible). We DO want to eliminate other proteins though. An elimination diet really requires just what it is called - the Elimination of ALL proteins but one. What exactly do you have on order through MPC? When is the order due for delivery? You should try to pick up some taurine powder and you can use that as a temporary supplement to replace heart. That doesn't solve the organ issue though. Pet G.O. powder is a good organ replacement supplement as long as he doesn't have a beef allergy, so we may want to keep that in mind: mypetsfriend.com/pet-go-4.htmlHow are his poops? Depending on how bad his poops are, and what his energy level is like (and what/when your MPC order is coming in), we may keep him on chicken a few days until the order arrives OR we might want to consider doing a muscle only pork soup with taurine supplement. Short term this shouldn't lead to any deficiencies, and we will work to bring organs back in as soon as possible. Once you have answered some of my Q's here, I will have a better idea and can think of how best to go from here.
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Post by racheld on Jun 4, 2014 20:33:21 GMT -5
I haven't ordered from MPC because I was going to wait until they do a drop off in my area, which would be June 26th. I was going to get fine ground whole rabbit and coarse ground whole rabbit--that's a novel protein for him (pork isn't, he had it last time we tried raw feeding). Now that I'm looking, they also have pig heart/liver, so I may order some of that too if he takes to pig. I was looking for the thread with different poop pictures to make a comparison but can't find one. His poops are small and dark (not black, but dark brown). They're sticky and they aren't formed but they aren't soft enough to qualify as diarhea or anything. His activity level seems okay. Definitely lower than before the switch, but I wonder if prednisolone can cause an energy drop. Would taurine powder be found at nutrition/vitamin stores, or would I have to order that online? And if I have pork liver/heart coming on the 26th, would muscle meat with taurine powder be okay until then? When I order from MPC, about how many pounds of meat should I plan on needing for a month?
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Post by racheld on Jun 4, 2014 20:34:12 GMT -5
Oh--and he's getting chicken tonight but tomorrow I'll switch to pork. I'll be starting back at the soup stage with each new protein, right?
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