Post by katt on Jun 2, 2014 1:23:54 GMT -5
Okay I might get called into the hospital any time, so I am answering your posts one at a time and if there is a delay betwen my replies that is why.
I didn't see any odd poops (definitely more runny, but I think maybe I didn't add enough eggshell. It was a lb of HB meat and I only had about 1 tblsp eggshell powder... What is the ratio? I am thinking it's more than that, but can't remember what now...) There wasn't any weird, light colored ones though. And no vomit at all. Their appetites all seemed good too, as you can see
Okay a Tablespoon is too much. Typically per 8-10oz of meat you use 1/4-1/2 of a teaspoon of eggshell or bonemeal. I have gone up to 1 tsp, but that was with a ferret who had a pretty serious medical condition that affected his calcium absorption. You judge the amount needed based off of poops - too soft means not enough bone/calcium, too hard means too much. What do you mean by HB meat? Hare Today? Also, keep in mind that if there is bone in the grinds you shouldn't add calcium, and if you have enough bone-in meals in the menu you shouldn't need to add calcium. Part of the purpose behind feeding egg is to make the poops soft to help things pass through easier so while you don't want diarrhea, you don't necessarily want to firm up egg poops too much either. Egg poops tend to be soft and a bit slimy - that is normal.
And yes, I definetly would like to try a live prey soon! I think I am going to feed the second helping of mice sometime this week in a PM meal and actually do it in the tub to get them used to eating there and try to wiggle the mouse around and get them to 'kill' it. And maybe this next weekend I can try to go get some live ones.
Questions on that, while I am thinking of it...
I am more than happy to work with you through the live prey. That said I think you are more than ready to graduate. I will leave it up to you if you want to wait until they take to the live prey first, which really shouldn't take long anyways. Your call.
1. I know a f/t or live mouse is meant to replace a meal, so how many will be a meal? Seems like Pepe should get more than Rubes...
It depends on the ferret, the season, and their mood. haha Sometimes one mouse each is a full meal for my boys, and sometimes they want 2-3. Rarely more than 2 per ferret per meal though. 1-2 is pretty typical. If you are worried you an always supplement the meal with an extra chicken wing or something.
2. How big should I get? Should I start with small hoppers and move up to adult mice? I am not as worried about them getting hurt, but I did have an experience with a mouse biting my snake and that was a nightmare!
For a hunt? I would start with adults. Hoppers are extremely fast and hard to catch. Mice bites to reptiles can be very bad - mice bites to ferrets typically aren't an issue. For one, ferrets are usually smart enough and quick enough to not get bitten (and if they do once is usually all it takes), and for two ferrets have extremely tough skin. If you have ever tried to inject fluids or something into a ferret you know that their skin is like very tough leather. IF a mouse does bite one and manages to break the skin, just clean it with a little gentle soap and water and it will be just fine. Raw fed ferrets heal amazingly quickly. Feeding ferrets live is really a whole different ball game from snakes. I am absolutely against feeding snakes live prey because it is so dangerous for the snake, and the rodent typically doesn't get a quick kill. Ferrets are very quick and a good hunter will deliver a fast bite to the spinal cord of skull and kill the mouse instantly. They aren't likely to be bitten either - they are far too cunning for that.
Snakes are ambush predators. They sneak up on unsuspecting prey, quick strike, and eat it. When you feed a snake live in captivity you now have an ambush predator in a contained space with a prey that sees it coming. Snakes aren't "hunters," and when the prey sees the snake coming (vs the surprise ambush) and has nowhere to escape, it often resorts to self defense. In the wild a snake can take off to the hills if it misses its prey and find another critter to sneak up on. In a captive situation, the snake is stuck in the container with a defensive (and sometimes hungry) prey. The prey bites the snake, and I have even known many live fed snakes to literally be eaten alive by their dinners. Very sad. Rodent bites are quite nasty too, and frequently get infected. Especially in reptiles for some reason.
Ferrets on the other hand are hunters. They chase down prey whether it sees them coming or not - they don't ambush - You have seen how "stealthy" they are (not ) - at least not in the way that snakes do. They are instinctively wired to hunt a variety of small prey, which often sees them coming and often is being hunted in a cornered situation (like in tunnels and burrows) and a good hunter will have the instincts to avoid bites, as well as make a quick kill. Something to keep in mind too - unless you are using an experienced hunter to train a novice hunter, I would never suggest allowing two ferrets to hunt together - it has great potential to end up in a tug-of-war of a not yet killed prey (even if there is one prey per ferret).
Trying to graduate me off so soon! JK I am actually feeling pretty good about everything... I think it will be a bit of trial and error with getting them to eat the goat and what ever new thing I find, but I have the tools to do it, just have to have the need! My babes are so good. I am so happy for them and proud of them! I will try my hardest to get the mice towards the end of this week and will go from there (dance)
See above comment and PM. (dance)
I didn't see any odd poops (definitely more runny, but I think maybe I didn't add enough eggshell. It was a lb of HB meat and I only had about 1 tblsp eggshell powder... What is the ratio? I am thinking it's more than that, but can't remember what now...) There wasn't any weird, light colored ones though. And no vomit at all. Their appetites all seemed good too, as you can see
Okay a Tablespoon is too much. Typically per 8-10oz of meat you use 1/4-1/2 of a teaspoon of eggshell or bonemeal. I have gone up to 1 tsp, but that was with a ferret who had a pretty serious medical condition that affected his calcium absorption. You judge the amount needed based off of poops - too soft means not enough bone/calcium, too hard means too much. What do you mean by HB meat? Hare Today? Also, keep in mind that if there is bone in the grinds you shouldn't add calcium, and if you have enough bone-in meals in the menu you shouldn't need to add calcium. Part of the purpose behind feeding egg is to make the poops soft to help things pass through easier so while you don't want diarrhea, you don't necessarily want to firm up egg poops too much either. Egg poops tend to be soft and a bit slimy - that is normal.
And yes, I definetly would like to try a live prey soon! I think I am going to feed the second helping of mice sometime this week in a PM meal and actually do it in the tub to get them used to eating there and try to wiggle the mouse around and get them to 'kill' it. And maybe this next weekend I can try to go get some live ones.
Questions on that, while I am thinking of it...
I am more than happy to work with you through the live prey. That said I think you are more than ready to graduate. I will leave it up to you if you want to wait until they take to the live prey first, which really shouldn't take long anyways. Your call.
1. I know a f/t or live mouse is meant to replace a meal, so how many will be a meal? Seems like Pepe should get more than Rubes...
It depends on the ferret, the season, and their mood. haha Sometimes one mouse each is a full meal for my boys, and sometimes they want 2-3. Rarely more than 2 per ferret per meal though. 1-2 is pretty typical. If you are worried you an always supplement the meal with an extra chicken wing or something.
2. How big should I get? Should I start with small hoppers and move up to adult mice? I am not as worried about them getting hurt, but I did have an experience with a mouse biting my snake and that was a nightmare!
For a hunt? I would start with adults. Hoppers are extremely fast and hard to catch. Mice bites to reptiles can be very bad - mice bites to ferrets typically aren't an issue. For one, ferrets are usually smart enough and quick enough to not get bitten (and if they do once is usually all it takes), and for two ferrets have extremely tough skin. If you have ever tried to inject fluids or something into a ferret you know that their skin is like very tough leather. IF a mouse does bite one and manages to break the skin, just clean it with a little gentle soap and water and it will be just fine. Raw fed ferrets heal amazingly quickly. Feeding ferrets live is really a whole different ball game from snakes. I am absolutely against feeding snakes live prey because it is so dangerous for the snake, and the rodent typically doesn't get a quick kill. Ferrets are very quick and a good hunter will deliver a fast bite to the spinal cord of skull and kill the mouse instantly. They aren't likely to be bitten either - they are far too cunning for that.
Snakes are ambush predators. They sneak up on unsuspecting prey, quick strike, and eat it. When you feed a snake live in captivity you now have an ambush predator in a contained space with a prey that sees it coming. Snakes aren't "hunters," and when the prey sees the snake coming (vs the surprise ambush) and has nowhere to escape, it often resorts to self defense. In the wild a snake can take off to the hills if it misses its prey and find another critter to sneak up on. In a captive situation, the snake is stuck in the container with a defensive (and sometimes hungry) prey. The prey bites the snake, and I have even known many live fed snakes to literally be eaten alive by their dinners. Very sad. Rodent bites are quite nasty too, and frequently get infected. Especially in reptiles for some reason.
Ferrets on the other hand are hunters. They chase down prey whether it sees them coming or not - they don't ambush - You have seen how "stealthy" they are (not ) - at least not in the way that snakes do. They are instinctively wired to hunt a variety of small prey, which often sees them coming and often is being hunted in a cornered situation (like in tunnels and burrows) and a good hunter will have the instincts to avoid bites, as well as make a quick kill. Something to keep in mind too - unless you are using an experienced hunter to train a novice hunter, I would never suggest allowing two ferrets to hunt together - it has great potential to end up in a tug-of-war of a not yet killed prey (even if there is one prey per ferret).
Trying to graduate me off so soon! JK I am actually feeling pretty good about everything... I think it will be a bit of trial and error with getting them to eat the goat and what ever new thing I find, but I have the tools to do it, just have to have the need! My babes are so good. I am so happy for them and proud of them! I will try my hardest to get the mice towards the end of this week and will go from there (dance)
See above comment and PM. (dance)