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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2014 11:47:05 GMT -5
Before I get into my specific question, let me give some background information on the situation. 6 days ago, I took my little girl Jane (who will be 10 months old tomorrow) to see a vet. She was not eating, sleeping all day and having small black stools. On Wednesday night I gave her ferret lax and coaxed her into eating some kibble. That evening and throughout the day into Friday morning she started producing larger, normal colored stools yet slimy. She still did not want to eat and only slept. at the vet I was told after X-rays and tempTure taking that she had excess area around her inside, from a blockage or some that had ruptured or was very close too. Iwas heartbroken to find out the surgery was going to cost $1,200- something I could not possibly afford. The vet urged instead for me to out her down, saying antibiotics had a less than 10% chance of working. I couldn't give up without trying, so I took her home armed with antibiotics, ready to make a final decision on Monday. The her antibiotics changed her completely. Almost a week later she is running around playing, eating a soft diet of baby food mixed with pedialyte (because she was refusing the kibble) and using the bathroom with out he having to place her in the litter. My question is, should I be concerned that she is not pooping much. Just a very very small amount at a time just maybe twice a day. Is this because of the soft food, maybe her body is using more and producing less waste because of this? I plan to take her back to the vet in a week or so once I have the extra money. Her last visit existed my funds
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Post by Thérèse on Feb 27, 2014 12:34:30 GMT -5
If they are on a better diet they will poop less but can't say if that is all that is going on.
Will however tell you an experience I had some years back to illustrate the point that a vet that does not know ferrets can give you bad information.
My ferret Studdidoo crashed, ie. was running round normally and suddenly was lying on his side like he was near death. This was quite a number of years ago and while I knew a little about insulinoma I had never experienced it. It was also before I fed a natural raw diet. I thought it seemed like insulinoma and as it was after hours I took him to the emergency vets. She took his BG (blood glucose), as well as a general check over and an x-ray. She said his BG was in a normal range. She then showed me the x-ray, pointing out various organs, like there' his heart, lungs etc. and then pointed to a large area and said that shopuld not be there and was stomach cancer. The options she gave me were to have him put down then and there or take him home with pain meds and wait for him to die because he would not survive surgery and there was nothing to be done. They had had a ferret with the same thing who had died during surgery.
I asked how long and she said a couple of days max. As he was a home boy I opted for the pain meds and to wait for him to pass at home with his buddies. I rang my vet the next day to keep him up to speed in case I needed to bring him in. Because he was on such limited time I let him eat whatever he wanted, which happened to be some chicken baby food cubes I had found. He did not want his kibble but figured let him enjoy his remaining days. After a couple of days he was acting like nothing had happened and I was out of pain meds. I took him to my vet. He said he certainly didn't seem to be dying and agreed the whole thing sounded like insulinoma to him too. He explained that if a BG was taken at the wrong time (when the levels have rebounded) you could get a normal reading, to be sure you needed to take it at certain time after eating (think a few hours). I hadn't known this previously. He said he certainly thought he needed further examination before any decisions were made. As he had just squeezed me in between bookings he said bring him back tomorrow and he would check him over and we could take a BG at a preferred time.
When I took him back the next day I also took in the x-ray to show him. He too pointed out organs to me. He pointed to the mass that the emergency vet said shouldn't be there and was stomach cancer and said and that's his spleen. I told him that was what the emergency vet had told me was stomach cancer. He did say with ferrets the spleen is in a slightly different place and looks a bit different to other animals as a kind of explanation. He did the BG, which was low and with everything else he was diagnosed with insulinoma. Won't give you all the details of treatment etc. except to say he lived much longer than 2 days, being put to sleep some 6m later when he started having seizures which meds weren't controlling.
This taught me a very valuable lesson. A vet that does not know ferrets can mis diagnose badly. If Studdidoo had not been a home boy I probably would have had him put to sleep the night he crashed, robbing him of the time he still had, which for the most part he was his regular self until the point the seizures started.
I tell you all this because it sounds like your vet wasn't too sure what he saw on the x-ray just something and maybe that's because he's not familiar enough with ferrets (it might not be, it might just be the thing he saw was unable to be identified).
Do you know how ferret savvy this vet is? The emergency vet I went to did not say she didn't know ferrets well, in fact mentioned treating them (I still worry that she tried to take out a ferrets spleen and it died during the op because she didn't know that's what she was doing but I don't know that the other ferret didn't actually have stomach cancer), so your vet may sound like they know what they are doing but still may not be ferret savvy. Do you know anyone else who uses this vet or can tell you if they are experienced with ferrets.
Not wanting to worry you but the vagueness of the diagnosis and the options of surgery or antibiotics just sounded like the vet was guessing, the surgery was exploratory rather than specific and weel antibiotics is the other thing you try when you don't know. Maybe I misinterpreted but it just reminded me of Studdidoo too much I had to make sure you were condfident in your vet.
Whatever happens you are in my thoughts and I hope Jane ends up fine
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Post by Heather on Feb 27, 2014 15:02:14 GMT -5
One thing ferrets are very prone to and this does sound like it if it's not a blockage....ulcers. Considering that your little one suddenly got a new lease on life while on antibiotics this does point to a possibility. These are not an easy heal and often take a few months to clear up (antibiotics the whole time) The black tarry stools actually back up that possibility. As she won't eat her kibbles and baby food will only hold her for so long, might I suggest you look into a raw diet. This might work for her as it's not kibbles. Another thought is if it's a blockage it is showing the possibility of it being a floating blockage and not full on. A barium can possibly move the blockage and pass it through if its not too large. Do you have access to a good ferret vet? Ferrets are not an easy treat and can cause endless headaches in the diagnosis department (even to vets who are well versed in them) Good luck, please keep us updated ciao
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 11:26:30 GMT -5
Well this morning, I saw my little princess sneaking kibble under the bed to eat. She's trying to be tricky and make me think she will only eat the baby food! I got suspicious when sudden I came home and saw a nice developed poo that was obviously not my boy, badger.
There are a few vets in my area that treat ferrets, however I am not sure if they specialize. My vet said to continue the antibiotic until Saturday, just giving her a week on it. Should I continue it longer and maybe drop down to the 2 medicines once a day instead of twice? or stop like the vet said. Like I stated I'm not really sure if she's be considered an expert or not...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 11:37:42 GMT -5
To Theresa, yes, she did say it would be unidentifiable until the surgery. She said that because of the "air" being highlighted she was unable to tell if it was an ulcer, another organ rupture, or even an un passable foreign body. The day after the antibiotics she was acting more eager to move (although she couldn't) which made me think it was an ulcer. I don't think she was sure what she was doing and I'll be going somewhere else next time. She did not even offer antibiotics as a treatment until I assured her that I could not do the surgery and that I wanted to try anything possible before putting her down. She even seemed aggregated when I chose antibiotics , saying she was pretty certain Jane was past the point of help from them. She continued to give me a list of all the places who would put her down that evening or over the weekend. I guess this was because she was so close to not making it, losing weight so fast and having a temp of 105, but still angered me a little. Plus she gave me no information on the antibiotic, including how long to give it to her.
As I said, I will be going someplace different when they get check ups within the next month.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 12:59:00 GMT -5
Aww...CK, I'm so glad that you followed your heart and gave little Jane a chance. We do have a vet list, have you seen it? If you can't find it, just let us know and I will bump it. If there is not vet close to you, we can also ask around. There are plenty of ferrents on the forum and between this forum and the Facebook page, I'm sure that we can get a good recommendation on a ferret doc for you.
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Post by Heather on Feb 28, 2014 19:45:39 GMT -5
It does appear more and more that she's got an ulcer. When using just antibiotics it's going to take you at least a month (there is a specific regime but I've found it's not necessary to use that as long as you're not upset with giving antibiotics for a month) The regime uses metro which is the most horrible tasting stuff on the planet and causes severe stress to both patient fuzz and ferrant. I've had positive results with using a month to two months worth of clavamox. My vet believes that the stress of giving metro is detrimental to the ferret even if it does work faster. If you're not comfortable with the advice given by your present vet, start looking for a new one. This is a person that you're going to have to trust to give you straight up advice under very stressful times. My present vet didn't know a lot about ferrets when I first started using her services. She knew some and enjoyed the little ones and was willing to learn and research. For me that was worth it's weight in gold. She admits when she doesn't know but always tries to find answers. I've dealt with a "ferret vet" who knew everything and wouldn't listen or answer questions (other than to say she was the vet). She killed my first ferret. ciao
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Post by Thérèse on Mar 1, 2014 7:40:43 GMT -5
Yes a vet you can build a rapport with is essential. My vet too will not only tellme when he doesn't know but will then go and research and will also listen to anything I might have found out too (he knows that sometimes experience from ferrents can be more up to date than textbooks etc.) and together we will work out the best options
PS glad the antibiotics seem to be helping and your wee Jane is improving
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2014 11:38:32 GMT -5
One of the antibiotics I have expires in 3 days. The other is amoxicillin and good for a bout a year I could continue to give her that once a day, but do you think it might destroy any good bacteria?
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Post by Heather on Mar 1, 2014 21:28:33 GMT -5
Of course. That's the problem with antibiotics, it takes care of the bacteria, good and bad. The issue is that without those antibiotics your little one isn't going to get better and without getting better she's not going to eat. Ulcers go south really fast and can be fatal. The antibiotics are necessary. You can repair good gut bacteria after the antibiotics are finished. Use kefir or plain greek yogurt to repair the gut bacteria. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 23:13:38 GMT -5
Well a week off the antibiotic now, and she seems to be having problems pooing again first they were mucusy and seedy, not just very very tiny and very mucusy. I am not sure if maybe she's just distressed because of traveling. We took a 4 hour car ride to my parents and they've been locked in a bedroom when normally I leave my entire apartment open for them to play in. She is sleeping a lot, maybe because she's bored but she does wonder around exploring when she gets to go into other rooms and plays. She Is drinking water for sure, not sure about her eating food other than treats. There's a possibly she may have a cold/flu? I was sick for a few days last week and she was sneezing a lot, then we went to visit my boyfriend and he was feeling down too. She hasn't been sneezing nearly as much, but a little more than the normal, ferrets smelt to must dust sneeze. Could this be a symptom of a cold? I think I am going to start her on the amoxicillin again when we get home in 2 days. Any suggestions or comments? I'm getting worried about my baby again
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Post by Sherry on Mar 9, 2014 9:45:54 GMT -5
They can't get your cold, but are susceptible to some upper respiratory infections as well as the flu. Generally they have the same symptoms though. If you are concerned definitely talk to your vet again.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 13:32:11 GMT -5
Have you found another ferret doc? I looked at our vet list, and didn't see any in WV. I did a little research and found this one: www.animalcareassociates.com/ They are in Charleston West VA, and if that's too far, you can call them and ask them for a good ferret doc recommendation.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 17:35:42 GMT -5
Charelston is about 45 minutes to an hour away, so I will look into there.
She seems better than last night, she's playing and eating /drinking normally. Haven't been home all day to see her poos so I will keep an eye on her more this evening. The more I watch her run around the more I think she may just have an upset tummy from this trip. I normally only take her on trips less than 2 hours unless I can't find someone to watch her, and when we go that way she's allowed free range 90% of the time unlike here. She just seems stressed more than anything the more I look.
Just an over cautious ferrent!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 20:59:54 GMT -5
Update!
Jane is acting completely normal and has me puzzled. She's eating drinking playing and begging for treats but still pooing very little and seems a little constipated. When she does go, it's about the size of my thumbnail with lots of mucus, and each time a different variation or brown green or yellow in color. Poor thing. I do have a sneaking suspicion that my nephew has been feeding her a lot of treats the last few days though. When he guessed he told me about 3 of the "daily moist treats" and an N-Bone a day :/ (I know N-Bones suck as treats, but both my fuzzies love them more than anything. They usually will get half a one on occasion). A combination of all of this probably has her tummy feeling funny.
If I can get a pic of her next potty I'll post it for more input. Thank you everyone! Super helpful!!
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