My bf and I just bought our first house and are getting a puppy at the beginning of March. We are buying a purebred doberman puppy. We have already named him and have paid him a few visits The first thing I started thinking about was what to feed... I am sooo sold on feeding raw to my ferrets. However, our puppies parents weigh 70 and 90 lbs. So that would mean full grown he would eat 1kg (2.2ish lbs) of food. That is a lot of raw and the expense if a bit daunting. So here is my thought: Feed a high quality kibble for one meal, and raw for the other meal. I have talked to a couple pet food (not chains but locally/privately owned stores) about this and both stores said they have customers that do this very successfully. Ps. both stores sell kibble and raw. I feel the people there are pretty knowledgeable but I just don't take one person's opinion. So I want more opinions! I was thinking about feeding Acana kibble in the morning and a balanced raw diet in the evening. Does anyone here do this or know someone who does? Feeding kibble would cut my cost a lot but I really want the benefits of feeding raw like the dental, coat benefits etc. I just want to make sure that I am doing this right before I bring the little guy home.
Heather and miamiferret2 are good people to talk to about this. They both feed their dogs raw. Xio said her Border Collie eats about 16oz a day if I remember correctly? the same rule is going to apply RE them eating less food overall on a full raw diet vs kibble, but they are still going to eat a lot more than a ferret. haha Partial raw will certainly be better than pure kibble. The balance is similar with dogs but they need less bone if I remember correctly. Don't quote me on that. lol
Congrats on the new baby. I can't wait to see pics!
Thanks I know the percentages of bone/organ/muscle meat etc but I don't know a lot about feeding kibble and raw together (not same meal but same day). My research tells me that raw fed dogs eat between 2-3% of their ideal body weight. So a 90 lb dog would eat 1.8- 2.7 lbs of food. 16 oz in a pound would mean 28.8oz to 43.2oz of raw :S That seems really high but that's what I keep coming up with.
Post by goingpostal on Feb 22, 2014 10:07:13 GMT -5
Raw and kibble is doable, haven't really heard of anyone super happy with the results or doing it long term though. It would really depend on your sources and cost, feeding a quality kibble is usually going to run you about the same or less as prey model raw. I looked up acana and a 28 pound bag is like $65 here and I would need two bags per month to feed my dogs so 130 and it actually costs me about 75 on raw. Have you priced out raw buying in bulk? A puppy will eat more than an adult so most of the cost would be the first year. Also hopefully you know but make sure the puppy's parents are fully health tested, especially for heart issues. Seems like it's rare to see an older Dobe because they all die young these days.
Thanks goingpostal. I have priced out raw but perhaps I should do some more looking. Acana is 58 bucks a bag here. One bag would last close to a month. I priced out various meats as well. They average out to about 5-6 dollars/kg. So that would be about 5 or 6 dollars a day. So about 150 a month. I need to look up more bulk prices, I'm unsure if a butcher would be my best bet.. I've never bought bulk because I never owned a deep freeze. I have a smaller one now. And yes, the parents have been health tested for hips heart etc. I feel this is an excellent breeder. She is very thorough and spends hours discussing her dogs. I can tell she cares very much about them and being healthy pups. She keeps in touch with everyone who bought a pup from her last litter. She's adamant she wanted healthy pups and healthy parents because her first dob died from heart at age 5. She said she never wants anyone to experience that heartbreak.
Post by goingpostal on Feb 22, 2014 10:41:50 GMT -5
I get a lot of my meat just through my regular grocery store, but I have to go to the meat section and ask for bulk meat, in 30-60# cases. I only buy off the shelf stuff if it is way marked down and even that is more expensive than bulk. Most of the stuff I order is about .70/pound up to 1.30. But I know in Canada prices are different. A freezer is pretty crucial if you want to feed raw even part time so you can catch deals. And if you know anyone that hunts or fishes ask for scraps, organs, carcasses, this year sucked so I only got a couple hundred pounds of deer meat but last year I fed my dogs for almost five months straight on mostly venison that didn't cost me anything. Sounds like a great breeder so that is awesome, can't wait to see the pup, are you having the ears cropped?
My research tells me that dogs need 80:10:10 (meat:bone:organ/heart) So when I was figuring this out I found 6-7 meals should be bone inclusive (I figured this with cross multiplying knowing that ferrets are 15% bone and need 8-9 meals bone in) at least 1 meal organ, 1 meal heart, 5 meals boneless
Does that look right? I will be composing a menu for the pup. Any input is appreciated as I have never fed a dog raw before.
** Assuming the commercial ground accounts for 1 meal of bone I am feeding 5 meals commercial raw bone, 2.5 meals bone in meats, 1.5 meals organs, 1 meal hearts, 3 meals boneless, 1 meal Fruits and Veggies
This was done nicely in color on my computer and when I copied and pasted it doesn't look half as nice :roflfail:
Though I'm not currently feeding raw to my dogs, I have fed this diet in the past and strongly believe in the benefits of doing so. I started my puppy on raw as soon as I obtained him and he took to it like a champ. I later adopted an older dog (2 years) and I was concerned she would not take to it easily considering she had been on kibble for quite some time, but she proved me wrong! I did A LOT of research before I dove in, and it sounds like you are also which is great. I will link you an excellent resource if you'd like to use it.
Your percentages are correct, 80:10:10: meat, bone organ. For the organ, 5% should be liver. Puppies should be getting around 7-10% of their body weight a day, on average. These percentages are just a guideline, subject to fluctuate based on activity level, etc. There is a calculator on this website that will estimate how much you should be feeding based on weight and age. It helped me out a lot at the beginning. I eventually adjusted my dog's ratios based on what their body was telling me it needed; for example, my older dog needed more bone in her diet (her stool was too soft for my liking) so I upped her % of bone. I started them on chicken quarters then gradually introduced different protein sources as I went.
I fed my dog’s a prey-model diet and prepared everything myself. I initially looked into commercially packaged raw diets but two things turned me off:
1.) PRICE – so much more expensive than buying meat/organs and portioning meals out yourself. 2.) You never REALLY know what you’re getting when you buy something that’s already ground up and packaged for you. I never had to question the “integrity” of what I was feeding if I went out and purchased everything myself.
Before raw, I was feeding a high protein, high quality grain-free kibble and was spending around $80 a month. You said you want to feed Acana; depending on the formula, that brand of kibble can be quite expensive. A 100% raw diet ended up costing me less and I knew I was feeding my dogs the best.
Good luck to you! Once I obtain a chest freezer, I will be starting my dogs back on raw. Introducing raw to my ferrets has been much more intimidating for some reason, probably because I don’t have as much experience with ferrets in comparison to dogs. The benefits of keeping our carnivorous pets on a species-appropriate diet are quite apparent, and I applaud you for wanting to do the best for your new puppy. You won’t regret it!
Post by goingpostal on Feb 23, 2014 15:28:42 GMT -5
I don't feed veggies, and how much bone/organ you feed in a meal will really depend on the dog. One of mine really needs a little bone every meal or she has loose stool, another can't handle too much bone at once or he gets constipated. So you will just have to see and adjust as needed. That grind would be pretty bone heavy, chicken backs don't have much meat on them so I wouldn't want to feed it super often, you could probably get quarters for fairly cheap which would be meatier for bone in and I would look at feeding pork/beef boneless, red meat is great for dogs and should make up more of their diet than poultry ideally.