Kimber's Switching Thread/Acodlin

[Heather]

Name: Kimberly
HF Forum Username: Kimber

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?

I’m familiar with raw diets because I have fed them to my dogs in the past. Looking into a raw diet for my ferrets came naturally because I am already aware of the benefits such a diet provides.

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to.

Frankenprey diet. I would be interested in supplementing whole prey sometime down the road for variety.

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?

Through past experience with raw foods, I have seen the benefits of placing an animal on such a diet. I know ferrets are prone to a number of health issues and I believe starting with a natural diet is one of the best preventative measures I can take to ensure my ferrets live long, healthy lives.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Are you willing to make the commitment?

I have no major life changes on the horizon. We just recently purchased a house and are completely settled. I am 150% committed.

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?

2 ferrets. I just adopted them a few days ago, unsure about names as of yet! Less than 6 months old. 1 male and 1 female. No health problems that I am aware of, though I am bringing them to a vet for a health check-up next week.

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup?

They are currently eating raw soupie and will gnaw on chicken wings. They were on Marshall's kibble before I adopted them.

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?

N/A

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?

I want to be the best “ferrent” possible! I have done a slew of research on ferret ownership (both online and with books I have purchased). I research everything extensively before making a decision. This ensures I have a well-rounded understanding of what I’m about to undertake and increases my chances of success. I always do what’s in the best interest for any pet that enters my life.

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?

Everyday.

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).


Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentor (Acodlin) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance). Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[acodlin]

Hi Kimber.

My name is Amanda. I've got 20 ferrets whom I lovingly call my corporation. They are raw fed. I've been feeding raw for 3 years now and it's been a long road but well worth it. I feed frankenprey, ground raw mostly. I've fed some whole prey also so I think I can meet your needs no matter which path you choose.

To start with I like to weigh my kids about once a week during the switch. Fluctuation is normal, sometimes they may not eat as much of one meal as they will of another. Starting off i'd like to know what you have access to as far as organs and meat. A kitchen scale will also be useful to measure how much your kids are eating. I also encourage keeping a diary on your PC if possible, or hand written of what they eat for breakfast and dinner and what their poops look like after.

I see that they are eating some raw already. Can you tell me what your using in your soup?

[Deleted]

Hi Amanda, it's nice to meet you!

They actually don't eat soup anymore. They've transitioned to meat in it's full form quite nicely. Their diet has consisted primarily of chicken (wings, boneless cuts), beef (chunks and oxtail) and pork cuts. I also have access to chicken livers and hearts. My local kidney source has been out for weeks, so I will need to order this online. They seem to like all 3 proteins equally, though their poop consistency fluctuates. Sometimes it's formed, sometimes it's runny, sometimes it sorta looks like jelly, etc. I think keeping a log, like you've mentioned, might help narrow down what protein source is causing the worst poops.

I want to start ordering different proteins online (looking at hare-today.com) but I'm somewhat overwhelmed. Would an entire rabbit ground (including fur and bone) count as a bone-in meal considering it contains EVERYTHING? Could you possibly suggest a list of items I should order that would get me started?

I have a scale, and I will attempt to take their weight tomorrow. I'm hoping some salmon oil in a bowl might interest them long enough to get an accurate read.

[acodlin]

A whole ground rabbit is fine for a meal. I still would feed organs on a separate day, that whole rabbit will be several meals. You also need another organ. They sell beef kidney and pancreas and lung. I buy from hare today myself and I buy quail, duck necks/hearts, turkey necks/heart Rabbit pieces/ground rabbit I try to change things up a bit sometimes with new proteins. I recently tried the ground venison which is actually on sale right now. Some liked it, some weren't too enthusiastic about it but its good to not get them so set on just 3 proteins if you can help it.

Have you tried eggs? Chicken or quail eggs are a good meal. Feed the whole egg, save the shells, wash them and let them dry for a few days and they can be ground up and added to meals if they need more calcium.

[Deleted]

So whole ground rabbit would be considered a consumable bone meal? I know I need around 8-9 per week, so I want to make sure I have enough options to make that happen. Necks also count as consumable bone, correct?

I have tried eggs and they love them. I wasn't sure if 1 egg was sufficient enough for a meal, so I generally add it with something else. I've started saving the shells so I can make my own powder; how often should I add it to their meals?

Okay, this is what I have in my cart at Hare Today. I want to order enough that will last me at least a month. I already have chicken wings in my freezer in addition to a variety of boneless meats. Do you think this is sufficient?

4 lbs of Duck Necks
1 order of Turkey Necks (4 in a pack)
2 lbs of Chicken Necks

2 lbs of Beef Lung
2 lbs of Beef Kidney

2 lbs of Duck Hearts
2 lb of Ground Venison (Boneless)
2 lbs of Ground Whole Rabbit

[acodlin]

Necks are consumable bone. The turkey necks you may have to smash up a bit to make it easier for them to eat. Cornish game hens are a good source if your local grocery store carries them. They can eat all of the bones in those... a couple of my kids had a little trouble with the back bones but everything else is gobbled up. I would consider the whole ground rabbit a consumable bone meal. Rabbit does have a strong smell. You may have to mix it with something else at first. The egg shells I save and use as I feed is needed. If I think someone may not have eaten enough bone and their stools are loose I add a little egg shell to their ground mix for the next meal.

I do an egg a week per ferret. If feeding just egg it might make their poops a little funky, you can mix it with ground raw. I always feed the whole egg, whites and all. I think your cart looks pretty good to start off and should last you the month easy.

[Deleted]

I brought my babies to the vet yesterday and he gave them a clean bill of health. The female (Lilo) weighs 1.11 lbs and the male (Stitch) weighs 1.75 lbs. He, as expected, cautioned against feeding raw as "it's too dangerous, and they'll eventually end up getting sick." Then went on to explain how kibble is well-balanced, etc etc. I was hoping he'd be one of those needle in a hay stack vets that are pro-raw, but I was wrong.

They've been doing a good job eating pretty much anything I put down, but I've noticed extremely loose and mucusy stools recently. Started yesterday morning and it looks like they hasn't improved judging by the poops they just left in the litter box. The night before last, their poops looked fairly normal. The form and consistency has changed each day, depending on what I feed which I've read is pretty normal especially during the transitional stage. However, I've never seen their poop this loose. AND it smells something horrible. I fed beef chunks the night before they had really loose stools the following morning, and last night fed some ground beef. Do you think they have a sensitivity to beef? I've given oxtails I think twice before and I don't remember their poop looking this bad, and that is also beef. Thoughts? Should I cut out the beef entirely, or are they just not getting enough calcium in their diet? :/

Here is a pic of Stitch's most recent poop:
 

[acodlin]

They could be sensitive to it and you'll be able to judge this if they continue to have issues with their poop after eating beef in the long term. Right now I'd space out the beef meals because it is rather rich and it can upset their tummies. I would give them a few days before trying beef again. You also did two meals in a row with no bone so that could make their stools a little looser. I always do one meal a day with bone and usually the day after organs I do two meals. They will have funky stools for a bit while they adjust. As long as they continue to have a good appetite, drinking and staying hydrated I'd just keep a watchful eye. Your doing absolutely wonderful so far!

My vet is also anti raw... he raves about how good my ferrets look but in the same breath tells me to change their diet. I just smile and nod and go about my business. He can advise me all he wants, doesn't mean that I have to agree or do it.

If you want to you can make up a couple (or more) weekly menus that we can go over to use now or in the future (like if you decide you want to add in whole prey)

[Deleted]

I will hold off on beef for now and see how things progress. I was concerned by the looks of their poop and thought it might be a serious, underlying issue. I try not to press the panic button, but it’s hard when you’re dealing with two new babies.

I came up with a meal plan, can’t believe I forgot to post it in here! I won’t be able to follow it exactly just yet, as my frozen order won’t arrive until next week. This will give me a good idea of what things should look like, though. What are your thoughts? Do you think I'm offering too much food in each meal? Each meal averages out to be about 2.5 - 3 oz., so 5 - 6 oz. a day. They never eat all of what I offer at first. Maybe half, then they'll nibble on the rest throughout the day.

MONDAY AM: Chicken Wing
MONDAY PM: Boneless Chicken Breast or Boneless Beef Chunks (might not be doing beef anymore, depending on the poop situation)

TUESDAY AM: Rabbit Pieces (Bone-in)
TUESDAY PM: Ground Whole Rabbit & 1 Raw Egg

WEDS AM: Beef Oxtail (again, might not be doing this. I also don't consider this to be a consumable bone meal, because they usually eat around the bone)
WEDS PM: Chicken or Duck Heart

THURS AM: Turkey Neck
THURS PM: 2 oz. Chicken Liver & 2 oz. Pork Kidney

FRIDAY AM: Chicken Wing
FRIDAY PM: Chicken Neck

SAT AM: Duck Neck
SAT PM: Ground Venison & ½ meal of organs/heart

SUN AM: 1 week old Quail
SUN PM: Turkey Neck

Thanks again for all of your help, I really appreciate it!

[acodlin]

You could always do pork chunks or pork rib ends. I would also get older quail. 1 week old quail is fine for an occasional meal (like baby chicks) but the 3 week old ( Or adult) would have more nutritional value.

I don't feed a ton of chicken breast because its pretty lean. I would feed some chicken thigh meat that has more fat to it.

[Deleted]

Poops are still bad, pretty much straight diarrhea. Only feeding chicken and turkey for now, hoping that would have helped. They've been fed bone-in meals yesterday and today with no improvement. I've even added ground eggshells to everything. I don't know what to do and I'm starting to get concerned.

[acodlin]

What did you feed them? and did they eat very much of the bone?

[Deleted]

Chicken necks, turkey necks and chicken wings. I would say probably 95% of the bone. I smashed everything up good before I gave it to them. I think Stitch's poops are the worst - I found a poop in the litter box that I think belonged to Lilo and it looked decent. Stitch had just pooped and it was liquid, which is why I believe it was Lilo's.

[acodlin]

Try bone in meals again today. If nothing changes for him then try giving him a tsp of plain canned pumpkin. Make sure he's eating as much bone as Lilo is.

[Deleted]

He won't eat pumpkin, I tried today. He's been getting more bone than Lilo. I think he might have some kind of bacterial infection? It's slimy and jelly-like and is horrible smelling. I don't have a weak stomach and it makes me gag. What tests will I need to have a vet perform? I don't want to go in blind-sided and have them charge me for things I don't need. :/