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Post by fretki on Mar 19, 2014 15:21:48 GMT -5
if you have 2x grinds and 1x soup (saturday) in your menu with also organs in it, I would be tempted to do only 1x a full meal of heart and 1x a full meal of organ (half liver, half an other organ)... and add half a meal of heart and half a meal of organ every 3-4 weeks, not every week. if you do 1x grind (for example on saturdays) then I would do the 1.5 meals of heart and 1.5 meals of liver&organ. the gritty is the bone content, as long as they handle it well, this is normal, just make sure they don't get too solid poop, they shouldn't get constipated oh and one thing more I forgot regarding feeding lung: my ferrets are not terribly fond of raw lung, but they appreciate it freeze dried! i can buy small cubes of freeze dried lung, looks a bit like pieces of a sponge hahaha, poor Clyde, I guess he is too sophisticated, not acquainted with those barbaric eating technique of consuming the bone as well! oh cool, I can imagine their fun, even my older girls who do no longer play that much, are having a blast with cornstarch packing peanuts. yes, dooking ferrets in the morning are good for my daily motivation, as well as welcome back home dances when I get back from work! aw, thank you for the photos, they look great! p.s. I'm proud of Spam, this morning I left him a plate of canned cat food (got this from his old owner) mixed with small pieces of pork, the mix was more or less 50:50, all gone by now
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2014 19:24:46 GMT -5
yay Spam!!!! He was probably so excited to see real food mixed in there! I'm gonna get this balance thing down soon but in the meantime I will keep an eye on poops =) I haven't stared at poop this much since my kids were little
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Post by fretki on Mar 20, 2014 1:50:33 GMT -5
well, Spam was not interested at all in pure raw (soup is even worse, too much liquid on his mouth he can't stand it), so I mix in his catfood, I hope by the time I used the cans up - there are 2 cans left and I use a quater per meal - he got the message that raw will not kill him his "girlfriend" Javel is a whole different story, she doesn't like anything except kibble and raisins puke but she is already with my ferrets and she took instantly to a higher quality kibble mix, and when I feed my ferrets, she stands there a little lost watching the others sniffing food picking pieces and stashing their prizes... and she gets the soup dabs, she is convinced it is poison! well, I might have bad news for you: poopwatch will never end! but with time it will take a back seat, you do it automatically
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 16:30:47 GMT -5
AHHH! such a crazy couple of days =) Left early this morning for a 10K and just got home. My everything hurts =) But I had fun.
The fur kids are doing great. I have tried to stick with the same meal plan for all of them and even though my stubborn 3 will not eat bone yet, they will at least attempt a nibble. Fred is doing great and is eating all his meals like a champ! If I could just get my others to gnaw some bone that would be awesome. But they get offered some with every edible bone meal and soupie has been reduced to just Saturdays when I'm gone early and home late.
I am going to introduce some quail this week. I did have a question about that. If they eat quail, chicken, turkey, and CGH does that count as 4 proteins even though they are all birds? Also, I was wondering about some commercial raws such as Instinct or Rad Cat maybe to supplement their diet. Maybe as the occasional treat making up just a small % of the whole. If the container says 95% meat but not 100% is it still okay for them? I read where Wysong Archetype was okay but I would like your opinion before I buy anything.
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Post by fretki on Mar 23, 2014 9:46:10 GMT -5
Wow! Haha, I can feel you although I wasn't running, just working in and around our new home the past few days, I feel my muscles, not used to carring bricks around the whole day I'm curious what they will do with quail, mine love the quails I buy from my local farmer, but sometimes they snob the quail I buy in the grocery store, I guess they are raised differently... Yes, although all birds, they count as different proteins! Honestly, personally I don't use any commercial raw, on the one hand my ferrets are terribly picky when it comes to "mush", they prefer to starve than to eat for example miced meat; on the other hand here the declaration of commercial raw is a bit too vague; there are additives who don't need to be declared on the package, so I have hard times to trust the companies... I checked both brands and even though I'm not the strictest raw feeder, they don't impress me: The Instinct is clear about the 95% meat and 5% fruit and vegetables, the Rad Cat is more detailed about the nutritional values, but misleading by saying "no fruit no vegetables" (but seeds and algae)... If it's ok for you, I'll first check with the mentor team, there are certainly other mentors who have experience with commercial raw and who are familiar with the brands!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 14:20:35 GMT -5
That's fine with me =) I was just wondering bc I had seen where some people were offering it to their ferrets. I am totally fine just feeding them the regular and ordering anything I can't find from Hare Today. I believe that Hare Today also offers some freeze dried options but if it's freeze dried can't it dehydrate the ferrets? I knew when I saw the fruits on there that it was probably a no go since they don't need any of these. And my first attempt at quail was not really that big a deal. They sniffed it and eventually ate it but didn't dive in like I thought they would. It might be like you said with the difference being store or butcher bought. I have noticed that the whole chicken that I buy and butcher goes over much better than the frozen pieces in the meat section. I think it just tastes better when I do it bc they can taste the love I put into it LOL! I was notified that I was placed in the HFF student category. YAY! But what does that mean? HAHA! I have no idea.
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Post by fretki on Mar 24, 2014 2:46:51 GMT -5
As it seems there are mentors using NV Instinct for their ferrets, so as occasional meal it should be ok By gut feeling I would tend to use the Rad Cat as occasional food for older ferrets, I'll check the nutritional analysis in detail; I have a week off, so I should have time to do that I use freeze dried as treat or as "security mesure" when I don't know how long my day will be and to be sure they always have something to eat. If it is a main part of their diet I would rehydrate it prior feeding... and funnily I have ferrets who rehydrate on their own, Kami drops freeze dried pieces in the waterbowl and goes fishing they have 4 water bowls in their room and she only uses one for freeze dried, smart girl! Oh, I have to avoid the frozen meat section or read very carefully the labels, here a lot of chicken in this section is coming from south america or asia, it would be very cheap, but it might also be full of antibiotics and growth stimulants and whatever else... (disappointed) Frozen would be good regarding parasites and bacteria which might cause problems in ferrets, but I prefer to buy whole fresh chicken and freeze myself it takes time to portion it, but I swear ferrets can smell the difference before event tasting it! as a rule of thumb: if one ferrets refuses and the others are eating, the meat would be ok, but the ferret wants something else, if all my ferrets refuse, I try a different brand/supplier and see how that goes. You are officially HFF student! (dance) I guess you can't graduate without beeing a student
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Post by fretki on Mar 24, 2014 10:09:42 GMT -5
saw your video on the fb group they are so cute!! and I just grabbed and copied two answers to another question on the fb group from Jason/bitbyter about commercial raw and freeze dried, I think it's a good overview of the brands available: ___________________________ Complete Commercial Raw: Is a combination of ground muscle meat, ground bone and ground organs. Many also have a certain percentage of vegetables and / or fruits mixed in as well (generally the commercial products are meant for cats and dogs). For ferrets you’re best options are usually meant for cats and should meet the following guidelines: 10% to 15% ground bone no more than 5% ground organs no more than 5% vegetable matter Companies: Below is a list of some of the more popular commercial raw producers (in no particular order). Remember that for ferrets you generally should look at their cat products and they MUST meet the percentages listed above: Vital Essentials Entrees For Cats Primal Frozen Feline Formulas Stella & Chewy’s Canine Frozen Dinners* Rad Cat Straight Answers** Bravo Blends Natures Variety Instinct Frozen Raw (for cats) Healthy Paws Feline Complete Diet Carnivora Whole Animal Diets *NOTE: Stella & Chewy’s Canine Frozen Dinners meet the requirements listed above (except the Pheasant) while most companies canine products do not. **NOTE: Straight Answers chicken does not contain heart so it is not a complete diet. Freeze Dried Raw Freeze drying is a process that removes almost all the moisture from a product in order to preserve it. It is still technically a raw product and only slightly affects its nutritionally quality. It also lightens the food significantly (which is why most freeze dried producers will list the reconstituted weights as well as the freeze-dried weight). While freeze dried meats can be fed dry they are best fed reconstituted (water re-added so it is like a thick soup). Fed dry, it will pull water from the ferrets system during digestion leaving them on the edge of dehydration (similar to kibble). Companies: Natures Variety Instinct Raw Bites For Cats Feline Natural Freeze Dried* ZiwiPeak** Vital Essentials Freeze-Dried*** Primal Freeze-Dried Feline Stella & Chewy’s Freeze Dried For Cats *NOTE: Does not contain bone so is not a complete meal. **NOTE: Contains Chicory Inulin which is a form of sugar and is also an air dried raw product, not actually freeze dried. ***NOTE: Vital Essentials only makes canine freeze dried but they have ferret acceptable products. Their two acceptable products are: Freeze-Dried Chicken Nibblets Entree For Dogs and Freeze-Dried Mini Pet Patties Entree For Dogs. ____________________________________ and hurricanekat gave me this brand: www.columbiarivernaturalpetfoods.com/products/products.htmlthe grinds without veggies are looking good, similar to HareToday, but I guess ordering all from HareToday would be more convenient, so it's worth the shipping costs?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 11:08:08 GMT -5
aww, thanks! Clyde is a completely different ferret now. He's the most playful he's been since I've owned him =)
Thanks so much for all this information! It really helps. I am trying to give them as much variety as possible so I wasn't sure what other options there were. I love Hare Today but they are very expensive and so I want something for the in between orders. I'm going to review everything before I make any decisions.
Also, Clyde and Fred have started their decrease in food already and since their activity hasn't changed then they have lost a couple ounces. The ladies, however, have not so now they are all eating the same amount. Is it normal for the guys to drop ounces so fast? I see no change in behavior, activity(in the negative), poops or coats.
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Post by fretki on Mar 25, 2014 3:25:22 GMT -5
unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with most of those brands, they are unavailable here except ZiwiPeak, so this is at least an overview, and I also got positive feedback regarding the Rad Cat I had a look at the nutritional analysis as well, the declaration is well done, I would pay attention, when there is algae used in a product, that the label also tells you the iodine content. I really like the fact that the analysis is split into the different amino acids, this may be helpful when you would have older ferrets with chronic issues (renal problems, hepatic issues) there you can support treatment by favoring some amino acids and avoiding others. would you mind posting the weekly update with the weights? so we can check if the boys lost a lot or not yes, unfortunately they might have completely different paces. Here Martin dropped 3 ounces in no time and now is going slowly, Holly is normally doing no change until the first really warm spring days and then she is melting away...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 8:57:45 GMT -5
I'm going to a city about an hour away today and I am excited bc I was told they have an Asian market! I hope I can find it and get some really tasty treats for the fur kids =)And you are never going to guess what I walked in on this morning!! Daisy was gnawing on a chicken bone that I gave Fred last night and she actually got very upset when he tried to take it back =) That little girl is so feisty when she wants to be, LOL! This weeks menu will be: Mon: turkey wing rabbit leg Tue: pork loin quail(with bone) Wed: chicken wing heart Thurs: chicken breast with bone thin sliced ribs Fri: heart/liver pork chop Sat: rabbit rib meat chicken breast Sun: CGH liver/kidney/lung I have found that they love rabbit lung! Not so happy when it comes from a bigger animal but rabbit they are cool with(especially Clyde). I may see if I can get some organs from the market today. I ran out of grinds so that is why I added a little extra organ in there and heart. They haven't been wanting the dark meat lately so I was worried about the amount of taurine they are getting. Also, I found a place in town that will slice ribs for me very thin and there is a tiny bit of bone but not enough to seem overwhelming for my hard heads. I am going to try Bonnie and Clyde on them tonight. I also found some pig tails. That doesn't count as bone though bc it is cartilage right?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 9:08:50 GMT -5
okay, this is weird! The girls have gained and the boys have lost! By the exact same amount, 2 oz.
Name: Clyde Weight: 3lbs 4oz eaten per meal:1.25 ounces stools: all normal, no new proteins activity: HIGH! awake more =)
Name: Fred Weight: 3lbs 2oz eaten per meal: 1.25ounces stools: normal, no new proteins activity: same as before, very active but not more or less
Name: Daisy Weight: 1 lb 14oz eaten per meal: 1 ounce stools: normal activity: much more active in the morning than before!
Name: Bonnie Weight: 2lbs 4oz eaten per meal: 1 ounce stools: normal activity: much more playful and awake longer at a time
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Post by fretki on Mar 25, 2014 9:44:40 GMT -5
Thank you! Oh interesting, how did the girls gain weight without eating more? Hahaha, I believe you have some secret eaters, the girls just want to keep up appearances, not to look like the bigger eaters than the boys are Have fun with the shopping trip! I love to do this for my babies, and they exactly know when I went shopping for them, normally I have all the ferrets waiting in front of the kitchen gate to get a taste. the menu is ok, just one question: Sun: the organ meal would be ~ 1/3 liver 1/3 kidney 1/3 lung?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 10:03:15 GMT -5
it would really be mostly kidney and liver bc I only bought 2 bunnies so there really isn't even an ounce of lung between the 2. I gave them a small taste with the fist ones I ordered and this time there was a little more so I saved it for an organ day.
I though the same thing with my girls! After I posted earlier I went to get some clothes from my summer drawer and found at least 2 ounces of meat in there! That is Daisy's napping drawer so I think she has been trying to stock up before the boys eat it all! LOL!
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Post by fretki on Mar 25, 2014 10:29:57 GMT -5
Wow, Daisy you rock! So, be persistent and Bonnie and Clyde will follow! Taurine is (almost) in every meat, every working muscle contains taurine. Tongue, brain, heart, liver and kidney are also a source. And don't forget fish is normally also high in taurine. I use a german bodybuilding website to check nutritional value of meats, I'll have to see if I find an equivalent in english Hm, pig tail is heavy, mostly cartilage and fat, my first attempt went out as it went in, no digestion visible Start with very small amounts, I would use it as a very chewy snack, but not really as a meal
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