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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 10:44:17 GMT -5
Back to the living! After a day of meds and rest. I did manage to keep things rolling with the babies no room for regression here. I had made bags of wings and cut up pork ahead of time so it wasn't hard to pop those in there for them. Here is the thing I'm using right now to track the meals This is the chart I'm going to try out for next week for planning ahead...for the first time! So far I've just been watching the chart for what they need and filling it in but I'm going to attempt to plan the week out ahead of time so it is ready to go. Their poops have been a little off again so I have been adding eggshell to some of their meals. Hopefully you can read what is on the first pic of the tracker. They are still looking healthy and beautiful and balls of energy! Question: the back legs on the rabbit were so strong (understandably) it was hard for me to crush them and they ended up like sharp little daggers! It took me forever trying to get them where they wouldn't pierce into their mouth and cause bleeding if they bit into it wrong or swallowed them whole. Should I avoid those bones until they are strong enough o chew them on their own? Breaking them myself only made them seem more dangerous if they aren't able to then crunch them down more. Those are then only ones I've had this problem with. The online journal app I'm using is helping a lot with all of the info but I still haven't got it all caught up and organized yet. When I do I'll try to see if I can post it. I can prob just take a pic of it. Suggestions on poops and what I've fed this week? If you can't see what I've written I can type it out. The sun is out even though its still below freezing here! Hoping for a great day for all!
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Post by katt on Jan 30, 2014 23:32:57 GMT -5
Your first picture is hard to understand. The second one is really good, but lacking in detail. I recommend Excel unless you have a way that works better for you but will allow you to write down specific meals in your log. When I was tracking Koda's diet to try and get his IBD under control I used something like this. You can extend the week/dates along as far as you want, or make a new tab for each month. Anyways, here is an example I made up. I'll let J comment on the rest.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 2:03:58 GMT -5
Hi Shannon!
Welcome back to the world lol. Hope you're feeling better. I could sort of make out picture 1, although it seems a bit... unorganized. I liked picture 2 since it was color coded but as Katt mentioned, it lacks detail. It doesn't say what bone-in they ate, protein, etc. I took the liberty to combine picture 1 and 2.
Here it is:
I couldn't make sure what they ate in the am and pm of 1/25/14 but, this is what I assumed it was. It's color coded as in picture 2 but contains the details of picture 1. I used Microsoft Excel to compel all that information.
Their poops have been a little off again so I have been adding eggshell to some of their meals. Hopefully you can read what is on the first pic of the tracker. They are still looking healthy and beautiful and balls of energy!
Their poops are probably a bit funky because you've been introducing new proteins into their systems. You have to remember that raw fed ferret poops are completely different of kibble fed ferrets. Kibble fed ferts have nice solid poops but raw fed ferts have a variety of poops. Here are some links to different types of poops. The first being kibble/raw fed poops, second are ingestions, and the last one being poops related to illnesses.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/withloveandsqlr/fh%20images/poopchart1normal.png img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/withloveandsqlr/fh%20images/poopchart2indigestions.png img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/withloveandsqlr/fh%20images/poopchart3seriousillness.png
You may use these as a reference, but you need to remember that poops may and will vary due to different protein, bone, organs, etc. So if they do not look exactly as they do in the pictures, do not panic. Also! Don't forget to either post a picture of their poops or give us a description of their stools. We don't know what their stools look like on an "off" day. Just want to make sure that they're decent stools and not related to an illness or sensitivity to a protein.
Question: the back legs on the rabbit were so strong (understandably) it was hard for me to crush them and they ended up like sharp little daggers! It took me forever trying to get them where they wouldn't pierce into their mouth and cause bleeding if they bit into it wrong or swallowed them whole. Should I avoid those bones until they are strong enough o chew them on their own? Breaking them myself only made them seem more dangerous if they aren't able to then crunch them down more. Those are then only ones I've had this problem with.
Okay, Bones. I see that giving them bones seems a bit scary, for lack of a better term. You have to remember that ferrets are more likely to end up choking on kibble rather than on a piece of bone. I know it can be scary at first to feed bones, but you have to keep in mind that this is what they are designed to eat. I remember when I first heard my first bone crunch, I thought they broke a tooth! Lol. Unlike cooked bones that splinter, raw bones break. The broken raw edges are smoothed by the stomach acid, the acids smooth down the edges and the rounded edges of the ingested bone act as a scrub brush. They massage and stimulate the intestinal lining and "scrub/clean" it. If you don't believe me, here's a link to one of our member's ferret eating a cornish game hen:
Imagine a polecats or wild ferret (black-footed), he comes across some large carrion that's been partially eaten and crushed already, or perhaps a rabbit who broke his leg - you think he's going to pass up a free meal because it has some broken bones? No. He is designed to eat those bones. Here's a link to a polecat trying to drag a dead deer. Nothing gross, just a funny little polecat munching on whole prey:
Lastly, you have to think of this: are the bones their chewing less sharp as they are when you are crushing them for them? All crushed bones may or do have sharp edge. Again, them choking on them is a very low possibility. If they are choking or gaging, it's probably due to them swallowing the muscle meat attached too quickly. It happens.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 13:33:21 GMT -5
Yes I knew the second chart was empty! Lol it's set up for me to plan next week so it's not filled in yet! My goal was to pre plan the week so I have it all ready to go in case of a AS or RA flare up or migraine! I was going to write I all out so some one else could step on for me if ever needed and see what's on he menu, find the baggy and give it to them. I'm very visual so the color chart makes it easy for me to quickly look and see that they've had all the weekly meals they need. The first one is crazy to read after the fact. It was kind of a fill in as you go chart just to make sure I had given all the weekly meals. Once they were filled in... Done. Worked for the in between stage I was in temporarily. But not for going back and analyzing! Oy! So I'm fine when they can eat the bones in their own. I hear them cracking into it and it makes me proud! Its when I can't physically crush them down myself and then I'm offering them in these bigger, unswallowable chunks that worries me because I'm thinking if I can't get it any smaller maybe they can't and they might try to swallow them anyway and get it lodged somewhere. As you can tell my experience with Baby really messed me up. He was very special to me. He had that piece of plastic in there and it just sat there and ruptured and killed him all while he was being treated for he wrong thing and I couldn't see it or help him. He practically lived in my hoodie and was so sick. Talking about it makes me very sad. Please don't think that I don't believe you! This is almost like post tramautic stress for me. I'm getting so emotional just thinking about his suffering. And he did suffer through it. I couldn't bare to go through anything like that again so soon. I'm scared of it. But I'm trying so hard to push through it. Oh... my gosh! Dottie just leaped over onto me from on top of somewhere! She must know I'm upset So I truly trust what you are telling me and that's what is helping me so much! I appreciate your patience. I think I'm extra cautious too because they'd so young I keep think are their jaws strong enough?? So I'm getting there! Just need to voice those inner worries so I can get past them! ...and I will! I always conquer these things! I've had lots of practice at "getting past" stuff!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2014 14:13:25 GMT -5
Poops are great on chicken wings! Love those wings! So could I potentially give chicken wings for most of the bone in meals until they get used to eating bone whole as long as I am giving other protein sources for the muscle meat portion and giving at least 2 other bone in meals to try a week? So maybe give rabbit and turkey bone meals one week and then find game hen or some other smaller bone animal the next week? Crushing the bones is really hard on my hands due to the inflammation. So doing that a lot is hard. On that topic: I went to my Rheumatologist and she is tethering between Rheumatoid Arthritis and Ankylosing Spondylitis as my diagnosis now. I was originally diagnosed with RA then I tested positive for the AS gene and I have horrible spine issues so the diagnosis changed to AS. My X-rays are inconclusive for AS so now I'm back to ...in between? Both are in my diagnosis sheet for now. Ugh! Why am I telling you this? Because it greatly affects my ability to plan and even to stand long enough to get everything prepped or use my heads for crushing or cutting, etc. So trying to come up with a way that is doable for me and the ferrets is key for me to be successful. It's been exhausting these first few weeks cutting up meat etc on the fly or last minute. Especially in the evening so the pre planning should help. When I buy the meats in the first pace I know it aes sense to do it all then but after shopping I'm exhausted. I usually wait and then separate into portions. But as far as going any further, like separating the thigh from the leg and splitting bones into edible sizes, Ive been waiting to do that until right before the meal. ANY input on how I can do this more easily but still in manageable amounts of time/ energy would be great! I did get a stool for my kitchen I use when's have to be at the stove or whatever but cutting meats and etc usually goes better when I stand so i can use my leverage so I haven't been able to use it. THANKS!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2014 1:17:27 GMT -5
Yes I knew the second chart was empty! Lol it's set up for me to plan next week so it's not filled in yet! My goal was to pre plan the week so I have it all ready to go in case of a AS or RA flare up or migraine! I was going to write I all out so some one else could step on for me if ever needed and see what's on he menu, find the baggy and give it to them. I'm very visual so the color chart makes it easy for me to quickly look and see that they've had all the weekly meals they need.
As long as it’s well organized, detailed well enough, and we all can comprehend it, it should be fine. I’m not sure how you’re pre-planning and packing meats in the freezer, but whenever something flares up, a good idea would be to get a sharpie and label the container or baggy. I’m assuming you’re splitting everything up by meal? 1 baggy = 1 meal for both fuzzies. Since you’re pre-planning ahead of time, you can label the bag/ container with the date, am or pm meal, and what it is (Organ, bone, muscle, liver, or heart). For example: Sat 2/1/14 AM, Chicken Kidney (Organ). That way it’ll be easier for whoever will feed them. They can look at your planned out tracker and match it up with the baggy/ container--Just an idea. I’m also a visual person, so I fully understand.
So I'm fine when they can eat the bones in their own. I hear them cracking into it and it makes me proud! Its when I can't physically crush them down myself and then I'm offering them in these bigger, unswallowable chunks that worries me because I'm thinking if I can't get it any smaller maybe they can't and they might try to swallow them anyway and get it lodged somewhere.
Good to hear that you’re proud of them crunching away at bones. It’s in their nature to eat bones, muscle, etc. Don’t worry about the bigger pieces. Offer the small ones and the ones you couldn’t crush by yourself. They’ll most likely chow down on the smaller pieces first and if they really liked it, they’ll attempt crushing the bigger ones. They’ll have to use their own jaw strength to crush the bones. Sometimes they’ll gag on a few pieces but only because it was slightly too big for them and they’re regurgitating it back out to chew the piece even smaller. Let me reassure that them gagging while eating is perfectly natural. Their skin and throat are pretty thick, so any bone piercing due to sharp edges are very rare. And like I said yesterday, the stomach acids will dissolve the sharp edges in their stomachs. Crushed or whole raw bones are perfectly fine for them. It just takes time to readjust from them chowing on kibble to them eating a species appropriate diet. OH! Forgot to mention... Bones act as a natural toothbrush! When they get older, tartar could accumulate in the back molars but if they're chowing down on bones, tartar and gum disease be gone! (dance)
As you can tell my experience with Baby really messed me up. He was very special to me. He had that piece of plastic in there and it just sat there and ruptured and killed him all while he was being treated for he wrong thing and I couldn't see it or help him. He practically lived in my hoodie and was so sick. Talking about it makes me very sad. Please don't think that I don't believe you! This is almost like post tramautic stress for me. I'm getting so emotional just thinking about his suffering. And he did suffer through it. I couldn't bare to go through anything like that again so soon. I'm scared of it. But I'm trying so hard to push through it.
Oh, I can only imagine what you went through with Baby. Pinky had a blockage, before we had an exotic vet. I spent a few shiny pennies to get him back to recovery. We were lucky that the ER vet left the catheter on his arm because when I took him to see a vet, they didn’t know how to put one in. But, I know where you’re coming from. I too get emotional for my 2. They passed last year. Tiny’s passing was the worst one for me. I cry when I think of it, he had gastrointestinal lymphoma. We found out and he was just in pain. I couldn’t let him continue in pain. Pinky’s passing was different. I was upset. He passed due to cardiomyopathy. His heart became too weak regardless of all the medicine he was on. Okay I need to stop, the tears are at bay.
But, do not let Baby’s passing discourage you from your 2 babies from chowing down on bones or this diet. This diet is designed just for them and does not contain any additives, carbohydrates, binders, and other ingredients that kibble brands add on that will lead to an illness later in their lives. Insulinoma is something that you do not want to deal with. Sometimes it could be controlled with diet and medicine but sometimes, it’s just too aggressive. Besides, the only thing that could cause a blockage of bone would be an indigestible object (like part of a toy, foam, anything they chew and accidently swallow) blocking the passing of bone.
Oh... my gosh! Dottie just leaped over onto me from on top of somewhere! She must know I'm upset So I truly trust what you are telling me and that's what is helping me so much! I appreciate your patience. I think I'm extra cautious too because they'd so young I keep think are their jaws strong enough?? So I'm getting there! Just need to voice those inner worries so I can get past them! ...and I will! I always conquer these things! I've had lots of practice at "getting past" stuff!
Haha Dottie is soo silly. I fully understand why you’re being extra cautious. It’s in our nature to become protective of our kids. We’re also taught that bones are bad to give to pets, but it’s only when they’re cooked since they splinter. Cooking bones changes the bone chemistry, this is why we always feed raw and never cooked.
...Will reply to the other post soon.
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Post by katt on Feb 1, 2014 18:16:43 GMT -5
So could I potentially give chicken wings for most of the bone in meals until they get used to eating bone whole as long as I am giving other protein sources for the muscle meat portion and giving at least 2 other bone in meals to try a week? So maybe give rabbit and turkey bone meals one week and then find game hen or some other smaller bone animal the next week?Mmmm that's not ideal, but as long as they are getting variety I can't really argue with it. Why are you wanting to alternate proteins each week though? If you have rabbit and turkey bones, why not mix up the rabbit, turkey, and chicken wings throughout each week instead of one per week? Crushing the bones is really hard on my hands due to the inflammation. So doing that a lot is hard. Okay, a few suggestions here. First off, I never buy meat and prep meat on the same day. Shopping is exhausting, and with my schedule I really only have time for one "extracurricular" activity each day. lol Not to mention when you buy the meat, it is generally frozen and takes time to thaw. I buy the meat and toss it in the freezer until I'm ready to prep it, then I take it out a day ahead of time and put it in the fridge or sink. Let it thaw completely, as that will make for softer cutting on your hands - messier than partially frozen, but it makes a big difference on the bone hardness. Then I have single prep day. I cut up MONTHS' worth of meat. I buy whole birds (whole chicken is $10 vs a small pack of wings for $7, it saves money for me) which may not be the best option for you with your hands. Either way, I spend one day and I chop up all of the meat, separate everything into ziplock sandwich bags in roughly meal-sized proportions (you will get really good at eyeballing it), and stuff the freezer full. Then for the next several months, all I have to do is take out a bag and toss the meat into their feeding den. I mix it up and give them thawed meat some days, frozen others. Now prepping that much meat at once might be a bit much for your hands. So maybe what you can do is have a single prep week, and prep some meat every other day or however much your hands can manage, and prep enough meat to last you a long time. Then you'll have one week you are using your hands, and several weeks to months (depending on your freezer space and hand endurance)that you will not have to do ANYTHING with your hands. Get some masking tape, or the ziplock bags with the white label spot on them (permanent marker will rub off the plain plastic) and label each bag with contents. Initials are helpful, like Ch-L+H (Chicken, Liver and Heart) R-B (rabbit, bones), CGH-B (Cornish Game Hen, bones). You don't have to put dates on them, but you can if that is easier. Personally that would be way too confusing for me esp because I prepare so much ahead of time. By labeling what each bag contains though, you can pull out what you need quickly each day. Wake up and go hmm it's Monday, they need a bone-in meal and they already had chicken this week so I'll grab a bag of rabbit with bones-in. Or tomorrow is Wed and they get liver, so I'll put this bag of beef liver in the fridge tonight so it's thawed by the morning. Etc etc. The hard part right now, is they are building up their jaw strength. As they get stronger and more used to chewing larger bones, you will have to do even LESS chopping. As for your concern about breaking the bones, I think J covered it well. But think of it this way - they chew the bones into smaller pieces. Do you think the pieces they create are any more or less sharp than the ones you are making? Nope! Also rest assured that you aren't feeding them any bones that they can't handle. Many ferrets can eat rabbit and chicken leg bones no problem. The only thing you have to worry about with bones that are "too big" is cracking teeth if you feed a SUPER large bone, like say a cow's leg bone. And even then, the chances are very slim that anything would happen. Did you see that little polecat going after the deer? haha I have been through 2 blockages and one pseudo-blockage. It is terrifying, traumatic, and I didn't even lose my babies. But like J said, the only way that bone would ever cause a blockage is if something else was blocking the GI tract ahead of the bone, or perhaps if some other serious issue was preventing the ferret from digesting their food - in which case you have some pretty serious issues on your hands, and you would probably know something was wrong before it ever got to that point. I have never heard of such a thing even happening.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2014 20:21:05 GMT -5
Mmmm that's not ideal, but as long as they are getting variety I can't really argue with it. Why are you wanting to alternate proteins each week though? If you have rabbit and turkey bones, why not mix up the rabbit, turkey, and chicken wings throughout each week instead of one ....
So like right now for bone I have given ch wings and neck and rabbit with the bone in. But other than that I have been crushing bones in chicken legs. I think what I was trying to say is: 1. Is it ok to keep using wings and not bother with crushing other parts of the chicken for bone since they are getting better at eating those on their own? 2. While I am feeding them the bone in meats I have started them on (chicken and rabbit), is it ok from here out to intro one new one per week so their tummy can settle and until they are eating the bones on their own better without me crushing them? (I'm going to the Asian market again tomorrow to look for more) For muscle meat they have gotten ground turkey meat, pork chops, ground beef, veal and pork meat, and of course chicken meat off the bone. ( I think that's it) So they are getting other protein sources that I will continue to give them. For organs they are getting pork and chicken liver hearts and pork kidney. I hope that makes more sense! I don't always have a lot of time when I log on or I start typing and have to stop to attend to my son or a million different other things and then I come back to a half written sentence and try to complete it! Lol I have to laugh at myself.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2014 2:57:40 GMT -5
So like right now for bone I have given ch wings and neck and rabbit with the bone in. But other than that I have been crushing bones in chicken legs. 1. Is it ok to keep using wings and not bother with crushing other parts of the chicken for bone since they are getting better at eating those on their own?
Ah okay I see. If you are replacing the legs with the wings that should be fine. You may consider feeding the legs un-chopped though. The dark meat is really good for them, and they can at least practice chomping on the bigger bones - one day just maybe you'll find they have eaten them all up on their own! Just don't count the chicken legs as part of your "bone-in" meals unless they DO start eating the leg bones. Does that make sense? Then in the meanwhile, you can start introducing new bones too.
2. While I am feeding them the bone in meats I have started them on (chicken and rabbit), is it ok from here out to intro one new one per week so their tummy can settle and until they are eating the bones on their own better without me crushing them? (I'm going to the Asian market again tomorrow to look for more)
That is absolutely fine. Something to keep in mind when introducing new proteins...raw fed ferrets do NOT poop like kibble fed ferrets. Which you have already seen. Each protein is going to produce entirely different poops. So if their poop doesn't look like the chicken wing poops, that does not necessarily mean that there is anything wrong with the poop. When in doubt, take a picture! We are certainly no strangers to poop pictures around here! A beef poop is going to look entirely different from a chicken poop which will look different from a rabbit poop...a liver poop will look drastically different from a boneless meat poop from a chicken wing poop. That's actually one of the many great things about feeding raw - you can see their diet reflected in their poop and can tell SO much more from it.
For muscle meat they have gotten ground turkey meat, pork chops, ground beef, veal and pork meat, and of course chicken meat off the bone. ( I think that's it) So they are getting other protein sources that I will continue to give them. That is great!
For organs they are getting pork and chicken liver hearts and pork kidney. Heart and organs are different. (clarifying just in case) I read that as pork and chicken hearts, pork and chicken liver, and pork kidney? That is great. Keep an eye out for other things and grab them if/when you can - pork brains are fantastic. Uteries are good too. I find both at the Asian market. That is great you have access to kidney though, some people have a hard time finding non-liver organs! Before you head off to the market, write down or take a picture of the different organs on this link: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/13628/defines-nutritional-organ-meat I usually take pictures of things because I'm very forgetful and a picture stays on my phone... and my phone is always on me. lol.
I hope that makes more sense! I don't always have a lot of time when I log on or I start typing and have to stop to attend to my son or a million different other things and then I come back to a half written sentence and try to complete it! Lol I have to laugh at myself.
No worries! I'm no stranger to multi-tasking!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2014 12:57:31 GMT -5
Awesome advice thank you! About to head off to the market armed and ready this time!
Oh I keep forgetting to tell you the jeans, aka denim, work great and I just put an actual pair of old jeans in there and they love going through the leg holes! S thanks for that!
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2014 16:14:28 GMT -5
My boys love crawling through my pants when I toss them on the floor. lol Let us know how shopping goes today!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 0:18:10 GMT -5
Super Bowl Sunday and my son decided we needed to have a party so I'm getting a late start tonight. We have "parties" for lots of things The shopping went well! They didn't have as much out as last time but I was able to get 6 frozen quail, pork spare ribs and another rabbit. The quail and ribs were a bit more expensive but I figured I can spread them out with the other things. Since I have given them pork before I gave them the pork spare ribs tonight as their bone meal and just split up a few of the bones. Hoping they will mostly be gone by morning. I'm going to try the quail as their new meat this week. I'm noticing more of a routine now with the way they eat and also with their willingness to eat what I give them. I know that sometimes they leave a few things for in the morning and if I just wait until after they play they will finish it up before I clean everything out for the next meal. So it's all getting more comfortable and familiar I think. Poops... Well Strax seems to be doing better than Dottie from what I can tell when I actually see them go. Dottie seems to be more sensitive. I forgot to take a pic of it tonight but wasn't really concerned too much (did really just say that? ) because they ate heart today and I know that causes funky poops from the higher blood content. But just in general Dottie's are runnier. I am finally scheduling a vet appt for them this week to get checked over with the vet that did Baby's emergency surgery and came so close to saving him. (He actually made it through the surgery but died right after in recovery). I feel good about that decision so thank you so much for your sincere input. It's so much better talking about it to someone who has been through similar things or who loves their ferrets the way I do. I will post the pre planned meal schedule for this week once I finish it ( I'm behind from our little party!) probably tomorrow. Or if I have questions once I get it down on paper I'll send those. Hope y'all have a good start to your week! (My native Texan came out!)
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Post by katt on Feb 3, 2014 1:10:24 GMT -5
Super Bowl Sunday and my son decided we needed to have a party so I'm getting a late start tonight. We have "parties" for lots of thingshaha Fun! How old is your son if you don't mind me asking? I'm rather fond of autistic kids (I know your son is an adult). One of my little cousins is autistic and I love him to pieces. He's so much fun. I know it can be really challenging to live with though - for them and you. Your son sounds like a lot of fun, who doesn't like parties? I'm going to be a "bully" and make J respond to the food-related portion of your post. haha I am finally scheduling a vet appt for them this week to get checked over with the vet that did Baby's emergency surgery and came so close to saving him. (He actually made it through the surgery but died right after in recovery). I feel good about that decision so thank you so much for your sincere input. It's so much better talking about it to someone who has been through similar things or who loves their ferrets the way I do. I'm glad you are feeling better about going to see the vet. I can't blame you at all for being nervous after such an experience. It sounds like the second vet though was genuinely caring, and that is really key. Prepare yourself too though, that most vets, even the good ones, are anti-raw these days. Just be ready to stand your ground and/or agree to disagree on that point. Hopefully she is open and receptive though. Please let us know how it goes! I will post the pre planned meal schedule for this week once I finish it ( I'm behind from our little party!) probably tomorrow. Or if I have questions once I get it down on paper I'll send those.Will watch for it. Hope y'all have a good start to your week! (My native Texan came out!) I have a Micro test Thurs and an Anatomy test the following Monday, so it's going to be a busy week on my end. lol I get to sleep in a little 3 days this week though bc of some schedule changes with class so I think it shall be a good week (pending how the tests go! LOL). *kicks back feet*
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 5:36:28 GMT -5
The shopping went well! They didn't have as much out as last time but I was able to get 6 frozen quail, pork spare ribs and another rabbit. The quail and ribs were a bit more expensive but I figured I can spread them out with the other things. Since I have given them pork before I gave them the pork spare ribs tonight as their bone meal and just split up a few of the bones. Hoping they will mostly be gone by morning. I'm going to try the quail as their new meat this week. I'm noticing more of a routine now with the way they eat and also with their willingness to eat what I give them. I know that sometimes they leave a few things for in the morning and if I just wait until after they play they will finish it up before I clean everything out for the next meal. So it's all getting more comfortable and familiar I think.
So glad that this trip went well! Ooh, quail! New protein, (giggle)Yay! Everything you purchased sound great. They both have experience with both rabbit and pork, which is good. Since they're not familiar with quail, if you want, you can always transition both of them to this new protein using a known meat. If not, you can always add on a small amount of gravy to bribe them or just offer the quail by itself and see what happens. They'll surprise you most of the time. Hope they ate up the pork spare ribs. Question on the ribs, did the ribs have muscle still attached to them? Remember that if they do not eat the ribs, they do not count as bone-in. Hope that they're all gone by the AM!
Feeding them is a routine. Well, it was for me lol. I had 2 insulinomic ferrets and they ate every 6 hours. Once you finally get into a routine, it gets easier. It's awesome that they're willing to eat their meals and still have some left overs for the morning before another meal. They're always suppose to have some leftovers to munch on between meals.
Poops... Well Strax seems to be doing better than Dottie from what I can tell when I actually see them go. Dottie seems to be more sensitive. I forgot to take a pic of it tonight but wasn't really concerned too much (did really just say that? ) because they ate heart today and I know that causes funky poops from the higher blood content. But just in general Dottie's are runnier.
When you say sensitive... sensitive in what sense? Just curious. If you forget to take pictures, you can always describe them. But glad that you're no longer freaking out over poops! Yay milestone! (dance) As much as they're adjusting to their new food, you have to adjust to new poops. lol.
I am finally scheduling a vet appt for them this week to get checked over with the vet that did Baby's emergency surgery and came so close to saving him. (He actually made it through the surgery but died right after in recovery). I feel good about that decision so thank you so much for your sincere input. It's so much better talking about it to someone who has been through similar things or who loves their ferrets the way I do.
Awesome, regarding the vet appointment. I could only imagine what you went through with Baby, and your reservations regarding the other vet. Don't be afraid to ask your new vet questions or hold back any opinion. My vet made me feel as comfortable as possible with treatment and if I wasn't 100% sure, he'd re-explain, and so on. Most of the times we would have conversations regarding treatment, and he was quite impressed with my knowledge of ferrets. We worked as a team, in a way. Sometimes I felt like I overstep an imaginary line because I would ask him if he tested for specific things in blood, did he look at this in the xray, and so on. I know I'm not a vet, but they're my kids dammit. Lol.
Anyway, like Katt said... Not all vets are pro-raw. Some may even be against it because they're taught that kibble is good or whatnot in vet school. My vet was okay with raw, and even though I explained it to him several times, his concern was always with the protein. That it wasn't high enough (Wet protein is very different from dried protein. I fed commericial raw food and the protein seemed low, but when you calculated the moisture content out, the protein was better than that found in crap-kibble.) You can tell your vet what you're feeding them and explain to them how frankenprey works, if they don't know. Let us know how the vet visit went! Hope the vet is open minded on raw food and better than vet #1. And, I'm glad we could help on your decision. It's not easy going through it alone. I did for most of my ferret's life and when I found HFF, I found people who could understand what I went through and was going through. I am still grateful that I found all these caring ferrents in this forum .
I will post the pre planned meal schedule for this week once I finish it ( I'm behind from our little party!) probably tomorrow. Or if I have questions once I get it down on paper I'll send those. Hope y'all have a good start to your week! (My native Texan came out!)
No worries. When you finalize on the schedule, just post it up when you're done and ready to show us. Questions are always welcomed! As you're learning about balancing meals, I'm learning alongside with you Not looking forward to Mondays. They're by far the longest day of the week, Lol.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2014 12:00:03 GMT -5
Katt- My son is a very handsome 19 year old. We are navigating the transition phase of the school system (18-21) before he enters the adult system of services at age 21. It's been difficult since, well, middle school Is when it started to fall apart. We started home schooling in high school purely bc we had to. So it's been a long 4-5 years of running this program primarily out of our home. He is slowly gaining confidence out in the community and I am slowly getting some time to myself but I love him more than anything except for my daughter of course! She is 21 and has always kept me in the real world when I get lost in the world of everything autism! It seems everyone knows someone with autism these days with the statistics at about 1:58 boys I think now. Isn't that crazy? Your cousin is lucky to have you! So the spare ribs had a good amount of meat on the bone. I have them 8 oz. total. They ate most of the meat off the bone over night and some of the bones but left most. Our AM / PM switch is usually between 10- 11am and then by 10pm unless there is stuff left for them to finish and then I wait a little while. I have to make it fit around my sons schedule so that's where it fits best. By sensitive I mean she tends to have a runnier poop and also I hear her tummy or intestines making noise sometimes like she might be a little gassy. I'm hoping she is adjusting and doesn't have an allergy. How would I tell? I'll be ready to defend my decision on raw with the vet! I'm going to start this relationship right. I think with the other vet it was kind that " power over" relationship because he was this known expert and such. So this time I will start it off right. I do know a lot. I used to be a vet tech back in TX believe it or not...it's been many years and a lot has changed or progressed, but still I did it for 8-9 years and we did treat ferrets. So I need to remember that and be confident. Coming soon... Meal plan! Prob tonight
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