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Post by Heather on Jan 15, 2014 22:59:09 GMT -5
Name: Shannon Dennis HF Forum Username: Shannon
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? AFA site
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. Since I have never done this I would like feedback on the best type of natural diet for my ferrets
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I have always been concerned about the high frequency of disease in ferrets and especially experiencing it first hand with my own babies has been heartbreaking. I want to understand how to help them be healthier.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? I am very committed to this and my ferrets. I am home most of the day so I have time to focus on them.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I currently have a 3-4 month old blaze named Strax who is deaf and a 3-4month old female named Dottie.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) I am temporarily feeding them the Marshall's mixed with water they were eating before I got them and mixing egg in once a day. Update: 1/5/14 feeding small pieces of chicken, slivers of liver and have given access to bones once but they gave me a scare do I am holding off for now! Current kibble mix of Evo cat and kitten/turkey and chicken and Marshall's.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? Only egg mixed with kibble and it went very well. Started putting it on my fingers and then gradually in the dish.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I have had 5 ferrets prior to this. I lost my last baby in October. I did what I call a "pet store rescue" for the two I have now after finding 2 of the babies they had were dehydrated and not well. I reported to manager and said I would be back to check on them. They removed those for care and brought these two in and the blaze is deaf and they were not being open with this information with potential buyers. So...it all seemed to be the right time for me and my heart just fell in love with him. His little "sister" was so attached to him and also very nervous and a nipper! She needed to come with me just as badly...and boy has she been a handful! I love them dearly!
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Every day
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
11. Have you met the requirements for this program? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc? Update: 1/5/14 I will be picking up my scale tomorrow. I still need to get chicken hearts! 2nd update: 1/8/14 I have everything! (dance)
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentors (Hurricanekatt and Jocelyn) will be introducing themselves and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentors) so that your mentors can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentors and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentors are here to help you on this journey. You will note that you've got the wonderful privilege of having 2 mentors as Katt assists Jocelyn in learning the mentoring process ciao
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Post by katt on Jan 15, 2014 23:33:18 GMT -5
Location: Anchorage, Alaska I became a mentor because... I really like helping people (hence the whole becoming a doctor thing) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, I got him when he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009, Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and he immediately ripped into it and started hissing to keep me away from his tasty prize! Neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first ferret and he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several foreign objects, and is constantly finding new trouble to get into (his nose has a rubber detector in it). He had to have an emergency blockage surgery, which (we believe) ended up being the catalyst that resulted in his IBD. He loves digging the carpet up, or more recently chewing it, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), he will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… He has IBD which we struggled to get control of (and finally succeeded!) with diet. He has recently had a second blockage surgery, and this week he will be getting his second Des implant for juvenile adrenal. He's been a handful, that's for sure! Kneai: male, Silver/Black Roan Mitt. I brought Kenai home towards the end of November 2010 when he was about 7-8 weeks old. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, frankenprey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He finally started shedding some fur and a little winter weight and is slimming up, but he is still a clumsy critter. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I thought Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpleton. He has trouble finding the potty box a lot, and he doesn’t learn very fast. He also is much less physically adept at things – he has trouble climbing and getting into/onto/out of things. He is sloooowly figuring out how to control his floppy body, but he definitely has some developmental delays. But, we love him just the same. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home, but I had started researching a few months prior to that. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! My boys are fed frankenprey, f/t rodents, and live prey. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poops were HUGE and smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur. Type of Mentor: Full switches only! I feed a frankenprey and whole prey diet - raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and occasionally freeze dried raw and commercially ground raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help with picking a good kibble. I absolutely do NOT do partial switches. My Specialty: Trouble makers! Especially only ferrets, and kits. I focus on full switches to raw – no more kibble!
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Post by katt on Jan 15, 2014 23:39:01 GMT -5
Glad to be working with you and your ferrets! Let's start with a description of your diet. What are you currently feeding your ferrets, and what is your feeding schedule like? (The more detail the better). Once we have a better idea of where they are, we will take it from there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 0:00:31 GMT -5
Hi Shannon! About Me: I’m a 25 yr old Chemist. For the past 3 years, I’ve been working as a lab technician at my previous alma mater. Currently, I’m waiting to hear whether I am a candidate for a Ph.D. in Chemistry—I reallllly hope I get it. I decided not to go into grad school right after I graduated so that I could devote all my time towards making Pinky feel comfortable during his last months with us. Once I’m in grad school, I endeavor to study forensic chemistry (Drug analysis/detection) so that I may work at the DEA one day. Since the passing of my two boys, I’ve been trying to become more financially stable before I bring in another little guy into our world, because vet bills aren’t free and I don’t like asking for help. Location: Miami, FL I became a mentor because: To help spread the word that there is a healthier diet alternative other than kibble. As a ferrent who fed both kibble and raw meals, I can tell you the difference it will make in your ferret’s life. Moreover, if they have a health issue, a species appropriate diet will help them. I found myself in a hole when Tiny decided not to eat his kibble anymore. After searching for alternatives, I found HFF and even though my little guys experienced commercial raw for a short period of time, they’re lives were greatly impacted. About My Ferrets: Tiny (2/12/2006-4/12/2013-Sable) Tiny was a first ferret <3 He was born on February 12, 2006. The sweetest and most docile little fert you’d ever meet. My first encounter to him was back when I turned 18 and wanted someone to love. Some called it impulsive; I called it love at first sight. Tiny was kibble fed until he was 7 yrs old. Sadly, it took him taking a turn for the worse to go online and search for an alternative diet—which is when I found HFF. Mister Tiny was a very easy transition to commercial raw, unlike his brother . Tiny suffered from both insulinoma and adrenal disease. He took prednisolone (and diazoxide later on) and had Deslorein implants every 6 months. Like any fert that has A/D: his prostate enlarged and it lead to a rigorous emergency surgery. Apparently the surgery was so complex that it involved microsurgery and the vet didn’t think he’d pull through. He did though and was titled the miracle ferret. =) Tiny was my heart ferret. He knew when I needed some love or when I was worried. He’d climb up onto the bed and sleep with me. After My surgery, he just laid down next to me. It’s like he knew. What took my heart fert away was lymphoma. His passing was too hard to handle but, I know he’s in a better place now. Pinky (11/12/2006-9/29/2013)- Das Pink, Pinkysaurus, or Pin-kehhhh. The Pinkster was born on November 12, 2006… I think. When I rescued Sir Pinks from Petco, the workers there were messing with him and kept saying how no one will buy him. After I bought him I got this Marshalls pamphlet but was told the date of birth was wrong (it said January 7, 2007 ) but I was told he was 4 months old and I just counted back and voila... a birthday. Pinky was Mr. Big personality in the house. Since Pinky was deaf, he hissed at everyone or everything at first. Of course, we didn’t know he was deaf for quite some time but it’s okay, we still loved him. Pinky was also kibble fed until he was 6 yrs old though. He was a tough transition since he was just diagnosed with insulinoma (He was on Pred and Diazoxide). With some guidance, he finally gave in and his health improved a lot with the switch. Pinky had the nose of a dog! He would be sleeping and I would peel open a banana and seconds later it’d see him tippy toeing with his nose in the air. Sadly, Pink had adrenal disease as well but not as intense as Tiny’s. He was on Des and Flutamide to decrease the size of his prostate. It wasn’t until Tiny passed that we learned about Pinky’s cardiomyopathy. We went to a cardiologist to get him on a medicine regimen (Pimobendan, Enalapril, and Lasix). Even though it helped, the Lasix and the pred/diazoxide were causing stress in his kidneys. I tried everything in my power to help pinky feel comfortable with us but, I knew when it was time. His heart became weak and it was time for him to be reunited with Tiny. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I started feeding commercial raw early on in 2013. Due to my limited time schedule, I only know commercial raw at the moment. I have experience with both easy and difficult transitions on commercial raw with insulinomic ferrets. Type of Mentor: Mentor-In-Training ^_^ My Specialty: Ferrets with insulinoma, adrenal disease, cardiomyopathy, helicobacter pylori, and some IBD and finally, both easy and difficult transitions to commercial raw.
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Post by katt on Jan 19, 2014 1:31:50 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by katt on Jan 19, 2014 19:55:41 GMT -5
Bump.
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Post by katt on Jan 21, 2014 13:17:08 GMT -5
This thread will be closed in 24 hours if you do not post. Once the thread closes, you will have to appeal to @sherry to reapply for a mentor. Multiple PMs and an email from the Admin have been sent. Last chance.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2014 17:02:57 GMT -5
Oh my gosh! This is the longest I've gone without logging on! I didn't think I would get a mentor this soon! Sorry for the wait!!!
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Post by katt on Jan 21, 2014 17:12:57 GMT -5
Let's start with a description of your diet. What are you currently feeding your ferrets, and what is your feeding schedule like? (The more detail the better). Once we have a better idea of where they are, we will take it from there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2014 21:16:04 GMT -5
Did you get my reply about our feeding schedule?? I had to take my son to special Olympics basketball so I did it there. Now I don't see it! Ugh!
Im going to recap since I don't see it here, I'm guessing you dot either.
I have 2 fairly new babies I brought home in December and was eager to get started on a raw diet. I had learned about it after losing my last ferret, Baby. I was so heartbroken I got on ferret groups just to be around other ferret people and see other ferret pictures! So I have Strax and Dottie now and they are growing like weeds! They were eating a mushy kibble when I got them and I started getting advice from this forum about the raw diet and started feeding them pieces of chicken. Once I had all of the ingredients for the soup we stopped the kibble and have been on all raw since. So a fairly quick switch so far. Right now they are eating chicken pieces, bones with a little chicken on them, raw egg, hearts and liver once a week, although I have to mix in a little soup to get them to eat the liver, and I have fed them a ground mixture I found of beef, veal and pork. They eat like crazy! I can hardly keep up! I'm home most of the time so it's been ok to just replace it as they eat it but I need help knowing how much is normal to put out in a day or over night, etc.
Problems: they are still having really bad poops and I am concerned. Dottie tends to eat everything even if its not food. She has eaten so much bedding I have finally made their cage almost bare except for 2 hammocks and a small rug. They also have a play pen with four tubes attached that go all over to different boxes and one has a safe packing peanut pit. I try to watch her like a hawk but with all the bad poops its hard to know when to be concerned if she has eaten something or if she is reacting to the food or what? I have tried pumpkin a couple of times when I found holes in bedding and then also when the poops were just very runny. Nothing seems to be settling either one of their tummys or gi systems.
The other issue is that they carry their meat everywhere! I have made a feeding den but Dottie is so territorial she tries to take everything Strax has. One of them will use the den and the other runs down the ramp and off to hide it somewhere else. I found that it does help to feed them on the higher level because they wanted to take it and run to the top. Any other suggestions? I hope I didn't leave anything out! Hopefully this will post this time! I'm looking forward to working with and learning from both of you!!!
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Post by katt on Jan 22, 2014 12:51:59 GMT -5
Congrats on the new babies. I'm in class @ the moment but I wanted to check in in case you popped in this morning. Can you please give us a more detailed weekly menu? I have some thoughts on the bad poops I'll come back and discuss later. In the meanwhile, if you can give us more info on what they are eating that will be really helpful. Something like this: Sunday am: pm: Monday am: pm: Tuesday am: pm: Wednesday am: pm: Thursday am: pm: Friday am: pm: Saturday am: pm:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 15:00:23 GMT -5
Ok. I sort of wing it because I am here through out the day and when the bowl is empty I fill it back up! I've been following the newbie menu Sherry directed me to which would be an average weekly of : 8-9 meals consumable bone 3-4 meals muscle meats ( at least one being heart) 1 meal of approx 2 oz liver and 2 oz other organ
I haven't found another organ other than liver yet!
I was tracking it more closely and then I slacked off recently. I will start writing it all down again. But an example of what I wrote down was 1/16/14 AM chicken wing and chicken neck (bone and meat on) with cut up chicken PM chicken wing with meat on, ground beef, veal and pork mix (filled up twice)
1/17/14 AM Strax woke up acting like he was going to vomit so I gave soup for the morning
PM (weekend so liver time!) 2oz. Liver with soup Then Cut up chicken gizzard and 2 chicken hearts
1/18/14 AM cut up chicken breast PM ground beef, veal and pork mix Then chicken with split drumstick with a little pumpkin to try to firm up poop.
Since then I have given more soup and chicken over all because I'm worried about them. Trying to keep it simple..
They are active and growing and beautiful! I saw other little ones in the store today and couldn't believe how skinny they looked compared to mine now! But still, the poops!!! Their poor butts must be sore! Help!
What are your thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 16:31:40 GMT -5
Just to follow up...This afternoon I gave them chicken wings and didn't cut any meat away (I had been cutting a bit away to get them started) and they went crazy over it! I think they missed it because they only had soup this morning. I did notice they had less poop from this morning but still runny. But also still beautiful! They do look healthy to me considering the poop. I feel like I say poop all the time now! I look at poop, smell poop and think about poop! The joys of being a ferrent! Lol
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Post by katt on Jan 22, 2014 22:09:59 GMT -5
Lol Yep, welcome to ferrenthood! So, here are my thoughts on the poop. First of all, there is always a period of transition as their GI tracts get used to the raw diet. How long has it been since they transitioned from kibble to raw?
2 - they could be short on bone. 7-9 bone-in meals means 7-9 meals containing lots of edible bone. So a meal of chicken wings, necks, back. This is also a general number, and some need a little more and a small few a little less. You can try upping the bone to see if that firms up poops. Especially being young and growing, they may need a little more bone. However, if their poops are runny even on bone-in days that is likely not the issue - but still something to consider.
3 - You have said that you have chewers, yet from the sound of it they have free access to a dig box of starch packing peanuts? While starch peanuts are technically "safe," this only means they won't cause an immediate blockage if ingested (though if they ate enough of them it still might). It doesn't mean they should be eating them. Many ferrets do just fine...my Koda, who is a notorious chewer, eats the starch peanuts like candy. You may want to consider restricting their access to the dig box to supervised time only.
4 - Right now they are getting mainly chicken. I'm thinking this is less likely to be the issue since they both are having bad poops, but it's still possible - chicken is a common allergen for ferrets. Right after beef. It is possible they are either allergic to the chicken, or sensitive to it and are reacting poorly from getting so much of it in their diet. I'll address this in a minute.
5 - It is also HIGHLY possible that they brought something home with them from the pet store. How long have their poops been bad? It could be something they were carrying and the stress (even good stress is still stress) of a new home put enough strain on their immune system that it started to take over and build up and now they are showing symptoms. In my experience, most pet store kits come home with something. At the very least mites, at the worse ECE. Eating so many non-food items *shakes finger at them* could easily have upset the balance in their stomach. If we can't get the poops under control with some dietary changes, I would consider taking them to see the vet to try a round of antibiotics.
Which brings me to their diet. Right now they are technically getting 3 proteins (chicken, beef, pork) but you are super heavy on the chicken. It's also your only bone source which is *technically* okay, but really not preferable. It's best to have at least 2-3 bone sources (i.e. chicken and turkey), especially on the chance one does have or develop a sensitivity to chicken. Let's try to get some more variety in there, and start looking for some optional bone sources. Does their poop seem better on beef or pork days by chance? I would try stopping all chicken for a few days, and use some bone meal or powdered eggshell to meet their calcium needs - start with 1/4 tsp per ferret per day and got up to 1/2 if their poops are still soft. Meanwhile, can you start looking for other meats that might be available? Some good ones are turkey (usually easy to find), Game Hen (GREAT bone source), duck, rabbit, goat, lamb, etc. Ideally when testing for food sensitivities it is best to get them on a novel protein (novel meaning something they haven't had before), lamb or goat are the best to start with. Then from there you try to stabilize their poops and then test one protein at a time to see if they react to any.
You may consider looking for a little kefir too. It's a good probiotic supplement and may help to rebalance their gut flora.
Any way you could get a picture of their poop? That can be very helpful.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 1:23:30 GMT -5
Just adding on regarding the bone meal, I recommend using human grade bone meal (or egg shells like Katt said.) You can buy human grade bone meal at health stores (such as vitamin shoppe) or you can buy NOW brand bone meal on amazon. Since you have a fert that eats their bedding, try using denim. Lastly, Did you take in your little guys for a check up after you got them? Other than that, I second everything Katt said.
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