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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Feb 1, 2014 23:02:26 GMT -5
They ate about 1/2 of chicken liver starting Thursday evening with each meal. Their poos are very loose.
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Post by katt on Feb 1, 2014 23:35:17 GMT -5
1/2 of A chicken liver each? or Together? or their PM meal is 1/2 liver and 1/2 chicken and heart?
Also, approximately how much are they eating each meal? If you're going to feed grinds with heart and organ mixed in daily, instead of having a set organs meal, the liver should be about 10% of their food each week. So 10% of each meal can be liver, or 20% of half of the meals.
I would cut back the amount of liver, and introduce it more gradually. Take the 1/2 liver, and instead of feeding that much each night, feed that much over 7 days.
I keep meaning to ask too - the chicken grind they are getting right now, does it have ground bone? Or are you adding eggshell? If you are adding any eggshell, how much per meal or day are you adding right now? Depending on that amount, you may want to try increasing it a bit to help firm up their poops. If their poops are super loose tonight, you can offer them 1/2-1 tsp of pumpkin to help firm them back up. We don't want them getting that daily though.
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Feb 1, 2014 23:45:48 GMT -5
They are sharing 8oz of ground bone in chicken with 10% heart & 1/4 tsp liver 2x a day. I'll cut back the liver & add a bit of pumpkin to help with their poos.
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2014 0:02:29 GMT -5
Hmm that is not much at all. What other liver sources do you have? Beef will almost certainly be too rich for them if a tiny bit of chicken liver causes them trouble. See if cutting back by about half helps their poops. If cutting back doesn't help by 2 days max, cut it out entirely and let's TRY another liver. Once their poops stabilize, let's intro a new protein, starting with a liver IF they don't do better on the decreased chicken liver, or starting with meat if they do do better. Because they don't react to chicken. I suspect that the liver is too rich for their systems right now after being on kibble and having their poor systems destroyed by ECE. If that is indeed the case, you will have to work on introducing liver super slowly, a tiny tiny bit at a time. If that is what needs to be done, there are 2-3 supplements out there I know of that can help fill in the gaps nutritionally while you build their organs up. I forget the names of all but 1, so I'm going to try to hunt them down while you test out decreasing the liver. It might help to give it every other day to start too if their poops are really bad, give them a day to settle and reset in between the liver meals. You can certainly remove the liver for a day first to settle their stomachs a bit before trying the new decreased amount if you prefer. Let me know.
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2014 20:49:22 GMT -5
How are they doing today?
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Feb 3, 2014 0:44:59 GMT -5
They are about the same. I think I'm going to pull the chicken liver for now. Then maybe try some turkey on Tuesday evening if they have gone to more normal poos by then.
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Post by katt on Feb 3, 2014 0:51:57 GMT -5
They are about the same. I think I'm going to pull the chicken liver for now. Then maybe try some turkey on Tuesday evening if they have gone to more normal poos by then. Sounds good. In the meanwhile is there any way that you can order some PetGo? It's an organs replacement supplement. They need some sort of substitute until you can get them eating organs safely. I don't want them getting any nutrient deficiencies in the in-between time though, especially not knowing how long it will take them... mypetsfriend.com/pet-go-4.html
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Feb 3, 2014 1:15:57 GMT -5
Sounds good. In the meanwhile is there any way that you can order some PetGo? It's an organs replacement supplement. They need some sort of substitute until you can get them eating organs safely. I don't want them getting any nutrient deficiencies in the in-between time though, especially not knowing how long it will take them... mypetsfriend.com/pet-go-4.htmlI'll order some in the morning. I've been thinking about getting this anyway to supplement my groups diet.
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Post by katt on Feb 3, 2014 2:30:05 GMT -5
Oh perfect! Keep me posted on their poops. Poor things.
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Feb 3, 2014 11:20:52 GMT -5
Alright. Their poos are perfectly normal this morning. I hadn't made the new liver free batch yet. (headwall)They were liquidy yesterday & are normal today.
I'll still purchase the supplement.
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Post by katt on Feb 3, 2014 15:39:56 GMT -5
Wait they were normal today still eating the liver? If so that is Fantastic news! (dance) IF that is the case, keep adding the liver at whatever amount they were eating and had normal poops. It sounds like they just needed time to adjust to the richness of it. The supplement would still be a good idea since you'll likely have to increase the liver to 10% really slowly.
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Feb 3, 2014 15:47:42 GMT -5
yes, normal poos while eating liver.
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Feb 6, 2014 11:39:51 GMT -5
The cats ate the turkey while it was defrosting in the sink (headwall)so I'm introducing quail instead. So far everything is going fine.
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Post by katt on Feb 6, 2014 18:28:49 GMT -5
Haha what a brat! They still doing okay with the liver? Here comes the tricky part. We want to keep getting them eating new proteins, but also increase their liver. The key is to only make once change at a time so if they react you know WHICH change they are reacting to. Brain storming as I type here... I think perhaps you should try alternating. Introduce the quail, confirm they do okay with that. Then spend a few days to a week or two (depending on how they react) increasing the liver by just a little bit. You *may* even start off increasing the amount every other day - so say day one they get 1/4 tsp, day two 1/8, day three 1/4, day four 1/8... If they do okay with the increase, you can move up to a steady increase (1/4 tsp every day). Then, stop the Changes to the liver and stabilize somewhere, and then intro the next new protein. Then liver increase, then new protein, then liver...etc. Hope that makes sense - let me know what your thoughts are!
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Feb 8, 2014 21:30:34 GMT -5
Sounds like a good plan. They are doing fine with the quail, so I will start increasing the liver tomorrow.
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