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Post by Heather on Oct 21, 2013 22:45:05 GMT -5
Name: Kelli HF Forum Username: ferretmama2
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
I first heard about the natural diet off of ferret.forum/com I saw the before and afters of this and I knew I had to switch.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I'd like to have my ferrets eating whole prey, I will have access to rabbits & mice. The third protein I am unsure of, I'm thinking of breeding either hamsters or rats, but I need guidance of which is better.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
I really want my ferrets to be as healthy as possible. I've seen the before and after pictures, and am amazed at how shiny , and thicker the ferrets are. Another reason is the smell, I have no issue with it, I actually don't smell them at all, but my dad has a hissy fit about them, and he is the one keeping me away from getting more because the two I have 'smell bad' but he's the only one that smells them.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
Yes, I'm willing to do this.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
I have two ferrets. First is Snax, my lover boy, he's 2 years 7 months marshells ferret, no health or weight problems. Next is Ditta, she's a bitter and am currently working on that. She's 2 years and 5 months old, I have had both of them for 6 months now.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
Right now I have them on the DFS brand food. I give them Good Bye Odor for the water & the Semi-Moist treats. I also give them each a Multi-Vitamin by 8in1 (FerretVite) in there food I give them a small amount of ferretone
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
No, never, right now I have the, eating chunky soup.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
I am 14 years old and very responsible. Have owned just about ever small furry common pet there is out there. I love my ferrets and want the best for them.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
Everyday of the week.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
I am on my iPad right now, so went I'm on my comp. I'll geture of them.
11. Have you met the requirements for this program? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc?
I have no idea if my mom has a scale or not. If she doesn't I can get one. The meat and powder I have.
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentor (Hurricanekatt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by katt on Oct 21, 2013 23:23:18 GMT -5
Location: Anchorage, Alaska I became a mentor because... I really like helping people (hence the whole wanting to be a doctor thing ) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, I got him when he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009, Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and he immediately ripped into it and started hissing to keep me away from his tasty prize! Neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first ferret and he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several foreign objects, and is constantly finding new trouble to get into (his nose has a rubber detector in it). He had to have an emergency blockage surgery, which (we believe) ended up being the catalyst that resulted in his IBD. He loves digging the carpet up, or more recently chewing it, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), he will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… He has IBD which we struggled to get control of (and finally succeeded!) with diet. He has recently had a second blockage surgery, and this week he will be getting his second Des implant for juvenile adrenal. He's been a handful, that's for sure! Kneai: male, Silver/Black Roan Mitt. I brought Kenai home towards the end of November 2010 when he was about 7-8 weeks old. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, frankenprey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He finally started shedding some fur and a little winter weight and is slimming up, but he is still a clumsy critter. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I thought Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpleton. He has trouble finding the potty box a lot, and he doesn’t learn very fast. He also is much less physically adept at things – he has trouble climbing and getting into/onto/out of things. He is sloooowly figuring out how to control his floppy body, but he definitely has some developmental delays. But, we love him just the same. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! He is fed frankenprey, f/t roents, and live prey. Unfortunately, his diet is somewhat restricted because of his IBD, but we've finally got a bit of variety back in. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poops were HUGE and smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur. Type of Mentor: In Training! I feed frankenprey, raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and recently added (for treats and supplemental) freeze dried raw and commercially ground raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help with picking a good kibble… My Specialty: Trouble makers! I focus on full switches to raw – no more kibble!
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Post by katt on Oct 21, 2013 23:23:40 GMT -5
Let's start off with a detailed description of your current feeding schedule @ferretmama2 . What are you feeding to each ferret, when, do you give meals or free feed, etc. Then I'll have an idea of where we need to start!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 21:19:42 GMT -5
Thank you so much!
There current diet is chick wings, gizzard, hear, & liver. I've gave them a raw egg last night. Finally they ate a bit of it. At this point I'm trying to get them to eat bones, since there only eating the meat. I know they should have 3 proteins, so this week when I go to the store ill be getting pork and bef. I have some other meat In the freezer, just need to get in there. My moms going to the store tomorrow where she will be getting me a scale so I can stop using my neighbors.
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Post by katt on Oct 23, 2013 1:49:55 GMT -5
Great, they are off to a good start. A good way to get them eating new meats is to drizzle a little chicken soup (blended chicken) since they already like chicken over small chunks of the new meat (kind of like gravy). You can also hand feed little slivers. Beef tends to be more strong in flavor so it usually takes them a bit longer to accept than poultry and pork. You can also mix slivers of new meat in with chunks of chicken and mix it really well so the chicken juices cover the new meat and disguise it a little bit. Then gradually decrease the chicken and increase the other meat. For bones do you have a hammer or a strong meat cleaver or butcher knife? If you can, smash up the bones into super tiny pieces. Perhaps get your dad to help if you need to. Once you have the bones smashed into little pieces, cut the meat up a little bit to about the size of the chunks they are eating or smaller, and hand feed them a few pieces of marrow. Once they realize it is food, marrow is like nutritious candy - packed with nutrients but suuuper tasty. You can use a little soup or oil to drizzle over the bone chunks and meat to entice them as well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 13:19:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the ideas. I've already smashed a few up but they still haven't ate them. I'll crush them up smaller tonight.
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Post by katt on Oct 23, 2013 13:54:43 GMT -5
Try the smaller pieces and try hand feeding the marrow. If you have any salmon or fish oil (great to have on hand as a supplement anyways) that can be used to entice them. It will take a little time for them to get used to the chewing as well. Let me know how it goes tonight.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 17:51:04 GMT -5
Defiantly (: I'm home now but the fuzzies don't eat for another 2 hours.
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Post by katt on Oct 23, 2013 20:09:46 GMT -5
Defiantly (: I'm home now but the fuzzies don't eat for another 2 hours. Are you giving them meals or free feeding? It is best to make sure they have 24/7 access to food. They have a very fast metabolism and need to eat every 3-6 hours (varies by individual).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 20:14:31 GMT -5
I give them meals morning (about 7 am) them a little snack when I get home at 2:30. Then dinner at 7. I want to give them more, but I don't want meat getting spoiled. How long will it last sitting there raw?
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Post by katt on Oct 23, 2013 20:31:41 GMT -5
I give them meals morning (about 7 am) them a little snack when I get home at 2:30. Then dinner at 7. I want to give them more, but I don't want meat getting spoiled. How long will it last sitting there raw? Raw meat actually tends to dry out before it spoils. Also, if it has gone too bad they will not eat it. In the wild a ferret or polecat who eats super rotten food isn't going to survive very long. Just like you know not to eat moldy bread, they are generally pretty good at telling when a food is too spoiled for them to eat. Also, Ferrets can handle a much higher bacterial load than we can due to heir extremely fast digestion (no time for bacteria to latch on), and their extremely acidic stomach juices. And again, raw meat typically dries up (ferret jerky) before it spoils. You will know if it is spoiled because it will smell really bad. The rule(s) of thumb are: Raw soup is good for about 4-6 hours, ground meat about 6-8 hours, chunks are good for 8-12+ hours depending on the size of the chunk, and meaty bones are good for up to 24 hours. Whole prey 48hrs.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 20:46:48 GMT -5
I give them meals morning (about 7 am) them a little snack when I get home at 2:30. Then dinner at 7. I want to give them more, but I don't want meat getting spoiled. How long will it last sitting there raw? Raw meat actually tends to dry out before it spoils. Also, if it has gone too bad they will not eat it. In the wild a ferret or polecat who eats super rotten food isn't going to survive very long. Just like you know not to eat moldy bread, they are generally pretty good at telling when a food is too spoiled for them to eat. Also, Ferrets can handle a much higher bacterial load than we can due to heir extremely fast digestion (no time for bacteria to latch on), and their extremely acidic stomach juices. And again, raw meat typically dries up (ferret jerky) before it spoils. You will know if it is spoiled because it will smell really bad. The rule(s) of thumb are: Raw soup is good for about 4-6 hours, ground meat about 6-8 hours, chunks are good for 8-12+ hours depending on the size of the chunk, and meaty bones are good for up to 24 hours. Whole prey 48hrs. Wow I had no idea! That's great, by ground meat, do you mean like, hamburger? If so I have some of that. Could I use that as a protein? I'll defiantly be leaving meat in there for them to snack on. I have good news, I crunched up some small pieces of chicken bones that I had, and I'm pretty sure they ate them all! As I can't find any on them. Before I go to bed I'll be hand feed them some larger bones with marrow in it. They ate there gizzard and heart, but the big meaty bones are still in there like usually. Hopefully they'll eat it soon.
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Post by katt on Oct 24, 2013 17:15:56 GMT -5
Yep, hamburger is just ground beef - beef would be another protein. You fan alsogrt Ground turkey, chicken, etc. the thing about ground meat is it doesn't do much for their teeth but it is nice and easy to digest. It is muscle meat. It's fine to feed some ground but they still need a lot of chunks and bones for their little teethers and jaw muscles. You can also get commercially ground meat blends from sources like HareToday for more variety and many of those contain bones and organs. Shipping is spendy though so you usually want to buy in bulk if you do that. Keep it up with the crushed bones. Continue giving the crushed bones for a while, maybe a week. Then crush them up a little less each week until they will eat whole bones. They have to get used to the idea that bones are food, and they also have to build up their chewing muscles.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 19:01:06 GMT -5
Awesome. I'd like to start a schedule of what I need to buy when I got shopping. Could yyou help me out with this? I left a peice of chicken wing in there with a pretty large bone, and I can tell they ate half of it. (dance)
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Post by katt on Oct 24, 2013 20:11:24 GMT -5
Good babies! (dance) And of course I can help with that, that is what I am here for! So first let's look at the basics and we can break it down from there. You need a Minimum of 3 proteins (more is always better). For example: beef, chicken, and pork. Those are a good basic 3 to have. More is always better though and pretty much any meat that is NOT processed, preserved, seasoned, or injected with saline, is okay for them. Some examples of other meats you can keep your eye out for are listed below (again, this is a SMALL list of possible foods you can offer): Cornish Game Hen (Fantastic source of edible bones) Turkey (the larger bones need to be crushed but still a good bone source) Duck (nice and fatty, also a good bone source. can be spendy so I stretch it out by spacing out duck meals) Bison/Buffalo Lamb Goat (very similar to lamb) Quail Pheasant Frog Legs etc. They also need 10% heart, this is super important. Keep your eye out for different types of heart too. A large beef heart for example is usually inexpensive and adds a little variety rather than just chicken hearts. Pork heart, beef heart, and chicken hearts are usually the easiest ones to find (in reverse order of easiness). Next they need 10% of their diet to be organs. This should be half liver (again look for other livers too chicken liver, beef liver, pork liver, etc) and half other organs: kidneys and brains are the most important 2 and easiest to find but you can also watch out for uterus (uteries), pancreas, or spleen. Asian Markets, Halal Markets, and other ethnic markets are great places to look for the more unusual meats. Do a Google search for "Asian Market, City, State" in your area (i.e. "Asian Market, Anchorage, Alaska") and it should pull up some places for you to look. You can also try Halal and Ethnic markets. For amounts, it really depends on how much your ferrets eat, and how much freezer space you have. It is generally less expensive to buy in bulk and stock up your freezer, but this depends on the space available. For example I can buy a pack of chicken wings for about $7 OR I can buy an entire chicken for $10 and chop it up myself and have way more meat for less money per pound. Here is a thread with some good thoughts for preparing it all ahead of time and storing it in the freezer (meat will stay good for pretty much forever in the freezer, ferrets don't mind freezer burn lol). holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/7135/pre-preapring-foods-balanced-dietNow to break it down for a shopping list. You can purchase a little bit of each thing and then buy more of ingredients as you run out of them. It may also be helpful to buy things in the rough proportions that you need ahead of time. For example you could buy: 3 lb chicken wings 2 lb game hen 1 lb pork chops 1 lb turkey necks 1 lb ground beef 1 lb heart 1/2 lb liver 1/4 lb kidney 1/4 lb pork brains This adds up to 10 pounds. 8 pounds are meat, including bones, 1 pound (10%) is heart, and 1 pound (10%) is organ meat (half liver, one fourth kidney, one fourth brains). You do not HAVE To do it this way, this is just an example of one approach to shopping that may or may not be helpful for you. Let me know if it makes sense or you have questions. Below is a breakdown of what their menu should be that may make it easier to make your shopping list. MENU (this is based on feeding 2 meals per day): In one week they need: 10% heart (one and a half meals) 10% organs (one and a half meals) at least half liver, the rest other organs 7-9 meals containing edible bones Minimum of 3 proteinsSo here is an example outline: Day 1: am: heart pm: half liver, half kidneys Day 2: am: half heart, half liver and brains mix pm: bone-in meal Day 3: am: bone-in meal pm: bone-in meal Day 4: am: muscle meat pm: bone-in meal Day 5: am: mucle meat pm: bone-in meal Day 6: am: mucle meat pm: bone-in meal Day 7: am: muscle meat or bone-in meal pm: bone-in meal Again this is just a basic outline. I like to feed all of my heart and organs on the weekends right before I do laundry so that I only have to deal with the messier organ poops once during the week and can wash bedding after since Koda likes to drag his slimy organ meat around on the bedding. >_< haha You can also spread the organ and heart meals out across different days as long as the proper balance is still there. I know I just threw a LOT of information at you so please please ask if you have ANY questions or if anything is unclear.
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