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Post by lost feeder! on Oct 16, 2013 12:14:56 GMT -5
hey so im really confused as to what to do now!?... :(
i took my two 13week ferrets to the vets recently for an overall check up as ive only had them for a month now and just wanted to see if they're all fit and healthy.
so the vet asks me what ive been feeding them i say dry kibble thats left in their cage throughout the day and raw chicken legs/thighs/wings during the evenings....
he tells me its totally up to me what i feed them but dry kibble gives them the best of what they need and that i should go careful feeding raw chicken because of salmonella (ive always cleaned everything before handling their meats btw) he also asked if i was feeding them multivitamins?
i feel totally lost now as to what to be feeding them as i want whats totally the best for them, ive read into so much online about ferret feedings and there is a huge debate over whats better than what and how kibble scratches stomachs and stuff...i feed my ferrets the best kibble there is
just as i feel comfortable in the knowledge of what im feeding them i get someone like the vet throwing me off course saying i should pretty much just be feeding them kibble...
what should i be doing!!?? :(
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 12:36:29 GMT -5
Most vets are NOT trained in nutrition. They're essentially paid to push certain foods even if it's not best for the particular animal. If you are already being careful, washing hands, keeping everything clean, the risk of salmonella is quite low. No higher than when you are preparing chicken for yourself.
I'd say keep doing what you're doing, and print out as much information as you can about healthy ferret diets, to provide next time he asks. Sometimes you just have to prove that you're actually doing the research and not just acting on a whim.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 13:11:55 GMT -5
Ediebird is correct, most vets do not specialize in nutrition, thus the only food they really know anything about is kibble. It is more likely that you, as the raw handler, would get salmonella, not the ferrets. Their stomachs are designed to handle even almost rotting meat in the wild, anything human grade is more than safe for them to eat even raw. Now, if all you are feeding is raw chicken then you are risking some nutritional imbalance, as one protein source is not recommended. We recommend a minimum of three sources. Since you are still feeding kibble though, this isn't too necessary, but if your ultimate goal is to get your ferrets fully switched to a raw diet, then you will need to increase your sources and start adding organs. Also, make sure you remove the kibble 4 hours prior to feeding raw to prevent possible stomach aches.
All that aside, if your vet does not support raw and you strongly want to switch I would recommend leaving your vet and finding one more knowledgeable in nutrition.
Side note, what kibble are you feeding, just out of curiosity?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 15:49:19 GMT -5
If you have a copy of Ferrets for Dummies, Chapter 8 Page 129 has information on Salmonella. My vet is also against raw and I understand his concern (mine also scared the .... out of me). If a ferrent doesn't learn the ferrets nutritional requirements and just throws some raw food at them, then problems can occur. That's why the HFF offers mentors, who are educated and experienced and can guide you thru the learning process. Problems can occur with a kibble fed ferret also, if the ferrent just throws a low quality kibble at the little ones. So in both cases, raw or kibble fed, a ferrent needs to do their homework and understand what a ferret needs i.e. Calcium, Taurine and Omega 3's, and what is not good for them like raisins, cheerios and corn. I'm easing into raw and currently offer both raw and Freeze dried raw, and just keep reading and reading...and everytime someone asks feeding questions, I learn a little more. I believe vets mean well (at least mine does), but overall I tend to put more trust in ferrents like Sherry, Heather, Hurricanekatt and quite a few more on the forum, who have lived with ferrets and have years of experience in dealing with feeding and health issues. When I research vets, they usually don't have ferrets of their own, but only studied them in school and did not specialize in them. My vet has seen ferrets for 17 years, works with the Nashville zoo and still didn't know blood counts in raw feed ferrets run different than kibble fed ferrets. So, to wrap this all up...whatever you decide works best for you and your ferrets, the forum will be here to help and support you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 20:51:14 GMT -5
My vet is perfectly fine with raw, she just needs to make sure it is *balanced* , very important.
Made sure I was also giving supplement such as extra virgin olive oil and fish oils.
To me personally when I read that ferrets are obligate carnivores, I know that means they thrive on an all meat diet, like a tiger. Also, ferrets/polecats do not eat kibble in the wild....
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Post by Heather on Oct 16, 2013 21:33:37 GMT -5
One of the problems you should be considering is that one of the reasons for your vet's concerns is that though you're feeding kibbles you're only feeding chicken. Now, I'm curious are you planning on taking this forward, are you going to raw feed? or are you just going to continue to feed kibbles? there are interesting complications when you feed both. That may be what your vet is concerned about....maybe not. He may not know enough about feeding raw to understand the concerns of raw feedings and kibbles but many vets have had to fix the mistakes. Even though they don't understand the raw basics, they know what it takes to fix it if it's done wrong.
ciao
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Post by lost feeder! on Oct 17, 2013 0:45:15 GMT -5
hey all ive been feeding them 'james wellbeloved' kibble its the best i can get hold of in the UK and wet it down sometimes and mix in a little extra virgin olive oil, www.wellbeloved.com/products/ferret-foodive been following this raw meat weekly plan that i found on this website, my ferrets have only just been introduced to raw meats since 2 weeks holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/146/meat-bone-organ-weekly-menui understand they have to have a minimum of at least 3 proteins does this mean 3 proteins individually in a week or can i have one whole week be chicken(with bone etc) then the next week be rabbit(with bone etc) and the next week be another type of meat for example?? i also give them on one day of the week chicken liver, im yet to still give them heart im desperately trying to find a store or butchers near by where i can buy it from! ive also given them on the odd rare occasion an egg yolk each from chicken eggs as ive read too much egg is bad for them.. i did plan to keep dry kibble in the cage at all times so they would have something to eat if they ever got hungry and also because im still new to raw meat feeding, but yes i will definitely take your advice and remove the kibble 4 hours prior to feeding. i definitely feel a lot happier feeding them raw meats and they seem happier too. With their kibble they do eat it here and there but i can tell they're maybe bored with it and whenever ive had any troubles ive always googled the internet and its taken me to this website where my question has always been answered in other threads that people have written! :) i feel happy and safe to know that there are some very experienced raw meat owners here! so your advice and help is super grateful! xx |
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Post by ferret lover! on Oct 17, 2013 0:49:50 GMT -5
when i say '2 weeks' i dont mean since they were 2 weeks old i mean they have only been on raw meat for 2 weeks! :D sorry!
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Post by Sherry on Oct 17, 2013 9:22:22 GMT -5
Ditch the kibble entirely  And yes, the 3 proteins are during the week. Preferably more than 3, but that is the minimum to be sure their dietary requirements are met. In the wild a weasel will be eating mice, insects, scavaging from other kills, etc as well as whatever they can drag back to their den and eat that in there. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 14:05:57 GMT -5
I agree with ditching the kibble for the most part. However, I would give it sometimes, once a week for one meal or even once in two weeks in case you'll need to give them kibble in emergency.
And yes, add more different types of meat. If heart is not available, add some Taurine supplement to their food. I do add some taurine when I'm not able to find heart. Also, I add some ground egg shells to their food when not feeding bones or not enough bones. I also add some oils and quail eggs to their diet.
Raw eggs are very healthy as they contain very good antioxidants. The issue is that if you feed too much egg white, your ferrets can develop biotin deficiency. I feed quail eggs twice a week with good effect.
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Post by Sherry on Oct 17, 2013 20:04:25 GMT -5
By giving it even once a week you are setting them up for insu, which completely defeats one of the main purposes to raw feed.
For emergencies instead get the used to freeze dried in both wet and dry form.
I haven't had kibbles in the house in years and will never recommend feeding it for any reason.
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Post by lost feeder! on Oct 18, 2013 2:55:26 GMT -5
ok do you think just so i have a clearer idea of everything and what to include, you could write me up a weekly day to day feeding plan including the name of meats etc like monday morning blah blah monday evening blah blah and blah then tuesday morning etc etc?? if that makes sense ha!  i understand what your all saying i just guess because its my first time with ferrets and my first time ever feeding any animal raw i just wanna have some kind of rough plan to feel comfortable and safe when getting the hang of things before i can start changing things up myself you know! thanks everyone x |
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Post by lost feeder! on Oct 18, 2013 2:57:17 GMT -5
ps im also buying rabbit today can they eat legs with the fur?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2013 3:46:41 GMT -5
As far as the weekly menu goes, it depends on what kind of meats are available/affordable for YOU.
For me, my menu has slight protein changes every 2weeks-ish. Sometime quail isn't available but rabbit is or whatever.
I buy all my meat from a grocery stores/ Asian super markets. I also buy meat from a pet food store that carries frozen meat such as chicken/turkey necks, natures variety meat sausages type things that contain bone,organs and heart in it and other products.
My personal weekly menu goes something like this
Mon AM: muscle meat (beef chunks, lamb , rabbit etc)
Mon PM: Bone (chicken wing)
Tues AM: Organ (liver)
Tues PM: Bone (turkey neck)
Wed AM: Heart
Wed PM: Quail (with the bones in)
Thur AM: Organ (kidney)
Thur PM: Bone (drumstick)
I'm sure you get the idea now. The remaining days are muscle meat / bone. Make sure to have a minimum of 3 proteins (3 different animal meat) I prefer to have at least 5.
You should also use supplements such as extra virgin olive oil and fish oils every few days and something like quail eggs 2-3 times a week.
If you have further questions feel free to PM me
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Post by Sherry on Oct 18, 2013 10:59:28 GMT -5
Go into the raw diet board under nutrition. In the stickies there you will find one that says "meat/bone/organ weekly menu plan", or something to that effect. That describes exactly what you are looking for. I don't like just giving someone a menu as you really need to understand how to do it yourself. If not then what happens if the store suddenly stops getting in one or two of what you use on a regular basis. By learning what compromises a back axed menu you will then be able to substitute when and where it's needed |
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