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Post by maddy on Apr 11, 2011 17:24:46 GMT -5
I took megaweasel to the ferret specialist in atl today and he also thinks he has adrenal... he said he suggested surgery before anything else bc he is young and hormones will eventually not work. He thinks he is a good candidate bc he is healthy other than adrenal... so I'm gonna think on it. I don't want to do anything until I'm out of school at the end of April and can devote all my time to him. The only prob is he estimated it at over $1000. My usual vet told me he could do it for around $200. I'm always unsure ab my vet ever since he told me to give Beatrice nutrical 3x/day when she was diagnosed with insulinoma. However, he has been a vet for 20 yrs and has always seen ferrets and has done plenty of adrenalectomies. So...I just have to think, a lot. I mean he's really nice and never charges me OV. plus he knows how much my ferrets mean to me. I know a lot of pple are against surgery, for good reasons, but both vets a talked to ab this seem to think its a relatively easy procedure. They both told me 70-80% of adrenal tumors are on the left, so I hope that's the case. Also, I just don't know how I feel ab having to deal w the lupron every so many months. I was really hoping this wasn't adrenal... I just hope it all works out for the best. I put a bunch of pics up on my FB of the ferrets lately (bc its easy to upload from my phone to FB) but I'm Maddy Johnston, I think the ferret album is not set on private, but you can always add me too to see them if I haven't made it public yet.
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Post by goingpostal on Apr 11, 2011 18:31:10 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with doing surgery, most simply can't afford it or don't want to bother since often the ferret is older, other issues, likely have to use hormones down the line etc. My first adrenal had surgery and hers didn't come back. I just had another done and I hope his won't come back anytime soon but you just never know. As far the vet, pretty much depends on how you feel with their experience level, success rate, if your vet does them a lot that is good and the price is awesome but if you don't feel 100% comfortable then go to someone you do. Both of my ferrets bounced back extremely fast from surgery although they look awful that first day.
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Post by Sherry on Apr 11, 2011 19:00:43 GMT -5
One thing I'd suggest before deciding on which vet to have do the surgery. Ask them what their success rate is, both on complete removal, as well as survival rate of the ferret for 3 months following surgery. Some do many adrenalectomies, but their success rate isn't much more than about 70%, for a variety of reasons. Maintaining the ferret's body heat during surgery is the biggest concern from what I've read. And asking about the 3 month margin ensures that any complications from the surgery are taken into the equation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2011 19:03:35 GMT -5
One thing I'd suggest before deciding on which vet to have do the surgery. Ask them what their success rate is, both on complete removal, as well as survival rate of the ferret for 3 months following surgery. Some do many adrenalectomies, but their success rate isn't much more than about 70%, for a variety of reasons. Maintaining the ferret's body heat during surgery is the biggest concern from what I've read. And asking about the 3 month margin ensures that any complications from the surgery are taken into the equation. Great suggestion, I would of never even thought of asking a vet things like this...thanks for suggesting this!
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Post by maddy on Apr 11, 2011 19:34:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestions, I also would not have thought of that!
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Post by Sherry on Apr 11, 2011 19:44:38 GMT -5
Not a problem. That's how I found out what my vet's success rate is ;D It is very high, by the way. I simply opted not to do the surgery. Part of the reason is cost($800-$1400), part is age, and part is recurrence levels. Not a thing wrong with you wanting to, though
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2011 21:16:41 GMT -5
Before going into surgery, have you considered doing a couple test lupron shots to see how he responds to the hormones? If his symptoms don't change after 2-3 lupron shots, it's probable that he doesn't have adrenal. If his symptoms go away, adrenal is likely the cause, and then you can decide what to do from there. Doing that could save you the time, money, and risk of opening your baby up, only to realize he's just fine.
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Post by Heather on Apr 12, 2011 0:27:19 GMT -5
My biggest concern with surgery is the risk of the actual surgery and the risk of return. It is almost guaranteed that the adrenal tumour will return. I found that the return incidence 6 months from surgery is relatively high, the return one year later even higher. I consider Loki Bears very, very lucky. The surgeon who performed his surgery was a vet who does this surgery regularly, so Loki was very lucky and his adrenal issues didn't return until he was 8 or 9 (Loki had his surgery when he was 4 yrs old, it was considered very young back then, it's not that way anymore ). The length of time between his surgery and the return is unusually lengthy. I lost a little girl 12 hrs after her surgery. It was then that I discovered that the rate of loss for ferrets under the knife was close to 60% when the surgery time exceeds half an hour. The biggest problem that is encountered is the difficulty in keeping body temp up (as Sherry mentioned). If you think about it, even when sleeping our fuzzes body temp drops enough that they must shiver to bring the temp up to operating temperature . Another is that ferrets are actually very sensitive to various common anesthetics, and vets often use these anesthetics when operating on ferrets. There was considerable discussion on another list when a healthy, kit was altered and she passed on while on the table. The anesthetic stopped her heart. When nothing conclusive could be drawn from the pathology report it was discovered that an anesthetic that is used on ferrets by many vets but shouldn't be used, caused her death. Another is they have a tendency to bleed out on the table. A couple of my guys are on the standing list as blood donours for the "just in case". I would be very concerned about a vet who can do a surgery for $200. The standard is about $1000. I realize that there is differences between Canada and the US for costs but they're not that extreme. My vet can't even set up an operating room for $200. I would hate for you to loose your little one on the table because an inexperienced vet who thought that he knew enough. ciao
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Post by maddy on Apr 12, 2011 2:57:54 GMT -5
I am still thinking on it. I am kind of against testing out the lupron only bc I've had two vets tell me that when pple do that it actually makes the tumor harder to find when they go into surgery. I still may do that too, idk yet, I just have a lot to fig out. Heather, you def bring up some valid points that I will be sure to discuss. As far as the surgery costing only $200... that is ONLY bc he said he would only charge me for anesthetics. Idk if it is bc our family has been going to him forever (he still has a drawing I made him when I was 6) or bc I have taken two rescues from them, or bc (this is what my mom jokes about) he has a 'thing' for me ... but since Beatrice was diagnosed with insulinoma he quit charging me any fees, just the cost of the vaccines, which was like $10. I really don't know why, and haven't asked. I mean I took her in and he told me she had insulinoma and we discussed surgery and I cried uncontrollably (and prob a little ridiculously) in his office ab losing her, and I wasn't charged again. but anyway, I am going to see him tom to talk ab what the guy in atl said, so what kind of questions should I ask regarding surgery? Other than what has been suggested.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 12, 2011 7:35:26 GMT -5
I'm probably the biggest Adrenal hater here. But, for the same reasons that Heather mentioned, I have chosen to forego the surgery. An Adrenal surgery (and the recovery) is more delicate than others. They can crash afterward and develop Addison's. With meds I have gotten another 3+ years with my ferrets after diagnosis. Only time I would do surgery is 1) if the ferret is young enough, and 2) the meds aren't working or 3) the Adrenal is causing other problems that are chronic (like the prostate problems that little Pip just went through). I would not do surgery on a ferret that is old. My vet won't do major surgeries on an old ferret either. I'm not telling you not to do it. It's your call. But, I would confirm that he has Adrenal disease first. Tennessee panel or lupron for 3 months.
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Post by Sherry on Apr 12, 2011 8:35:14 GMT -5
Something to consider. My vet also says lupron makes the tumors harder to find, especially when it's caught early, as Megaweasel's must be. However, if the ferret is responding to the lupron, she'll remove the left gland, since that's the one most commonly affected anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 8:49:13 GMT -5
I wasn't aware of that Sherry. Still, I'd consider doing a lupron trial before opening up your baby without a definitive diagnosis.
Plus, it's something you can do while you wait for school to finish. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you get a minimum of 2 lupron Shots?
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Post by Sherry on Apr 12, 2011 8:51:25 GMT -5
If someone is doing surgery regardless, if one shot shows the change expected, why wait for two? That one will have shown adrenal to be the culprit. If the first shot does little to nothing, then yes, go for a second.
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Post by maddy on Apr 12, 2011 8:55:13 GMT -5
That's a good idea Sherry! Yea he said if he opened him up and it was on the right, he wouldn't do it. I have had at least 3 vets tell me the Tenn panel is a waste of money bc it doesn't show all types, so you're not guaranteed. Megaweasel is only a year and a half....so he is young. And I am going to see my reg vet today and tell him what the guy in atl said. He told me to wait until at least May anyway to monitor his symptoms. His tail is def getting worse, I mean in the past two weeks... a lot worse. More hair has come out, there are a lot of black heads, I was hoping it was hair growth but I don't think it is... his fur is really course and where I can see the skin on his feet looks scaley. It seems like his molesting and aggression has calmed down, so maybe there is still hope. This isn't anything I'm going to just go do...it will have to be end of may at the earliest bc money anyways...plus I want to see what happens w his coat. He doesn't seem to have a pee prob but frankly its really hard to tell... I mean h*ll back up and switch corners ay least 47 times before going, idk if that's just him being a ferret or signifying an issue?
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Post by maddy on Apr 12, 2011 8:58:25 GMT -5
My other issue w shots is the time of year.... I mean it could mistakingly coincide with his coat coming in on its own and then I won't know? Ya know? Bc if its not adrenal, then surely he is at the tail end of this thing.... if it is just seasonal.
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