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Ulcer?
Aug 14, 2013 11:24:00 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 11:24:00 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I think my 8 year old ferret Stark may have an ulcer. I noticed him grinding his teeth today while eating his kibble. I had noticed it a few weeks ago but initially didn't pay attention to it because I thought he had simply gotten something stuck in his teeth. He's been on raw food for three days now, and I noticed him grinding his teeth again today. I'm guessing this is due to stomach upset. But I'm fairly sure it wasn't caused by the raw food - I'm careful to remove their food 3 hours before feeding them raw, and then another 3 hours before giving them back their kibble. He also has bad teeth (tartar and red gums), so maybe he's grinding his teeth from pain? (But then again, he doesn't have trouble eating and he even chewed on a chicken wing tip two days ago). Health background: Back in December/January, all my ferrets caught ECE (this was brought in by my youngest - viva Marshall ferrets). They were given antibiotics and probiotics. At the time, Stark had a ulcer in his mouth from pawing, which cleared because of the antibiotics for treating the ECE. He's been on prednisone (0.16 cc twice daily) and diazoxide (0.26 cc twice daily) to treat his insulomina for about a year. He stopped pawing when I started mixing his medication with chicken baby food and a few drops of Ferretone. Maybe he gets nausea from the medication... or maybe the long use of medication caused an ulcer. I found a black tarry poop in their play area, but I don't know if it's his (it had little grains of undigested fat, but I added some bits of chicken fat in their soup yesterday because we had fajitas for diner). I will keep an eye on his stool and post a picture later. Should I get him off raw for a day, just to check if the funky poo (if it's his) is just due to the adjustment in diet? Thanks! Marianne
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 11:44:42 GMT -5
When you administer the Pred, were you giving him food first? I know you said that you are mixing the medication with baby food now, but if you didn't before and gave it to him on an empty stomach, it might have caused an ulcer.
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Ulcer?
Aug 14, 2013 12:11:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 12:11:55 GMT -5
Before I started mixing baby food -with- the medication, I was giving it after to help with the bad taste. But I don't remember exactly when I started doing this. :/ I know I was doing it when he was treated for ECE, and his poop didn't show any sign of internal bleeding (just the typical grainy texture/mucus). I'm a bit upset the vet and vet techs never mentioned it shouldn't be taken on an empty stomach... Stark usually ate kibble (I would let him finish) before I gave his med in the morning, but not always. When he started being extremely finicky (scratching at us, struggling from the scruff, spitting the medication out), that's when I introduced the baby food. I just thought he hated the taste... but maybe he associated it with stomach upset?
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Ulcer?
Aug 14, 2013 12:23:00 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 12:23:00 GMT -5
My vet never mentioned it either, she was not a ferret vet (couldn't find one around here), and I actually found the HFF while researching Ponces insulinoma and lymphoma. When we gave him the Pred and Diazoxide, we knew about not giving it on an empty stomach, but he still did all the scratching, spitting etc...It really tastes nasty! We were able to get compounded (chicken flavor) Pred and Diazoxide, that helped a little, but my little guy never responded to the meds. Maybe if you take him in to the vet to check for an ulcer, you can find a ferret doc. And maybe someone else will weigh in soon, with other ideas, as to what the tooth grinding is from. Try to look in his mouth, and see if you see an abscess. you said he had one in his mouth before, maybe it came back.
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Post by Sherry on Aug 14, 2013 12:31:11 GMT -5
Long term pred use can definitely cause ulcers anywhere in the GI tract. However he most likely wouldn't want to eat then since eating would be painful.
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Ulcer?
Aug 17, 2013 15:48:36 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2013 15:48:36 GMT -5
Poncesmom, my vets ARE ferret vets (they only see exotic and small species)... ^^; Though the one vet who initially prescribed the medication isn't as experienced as the other two vets on the team, so I suppose she may have forgotten to pass on the information. She's still very knowledgeable. Glad to know my ferret isn't the only one who had a bad reaction to the medication's taste! I looked into getting the medication in chicken flavour (at another vet) but it would have cost me double. I was really surprised. But he's doing fine now that it's mixed with chicken baby food and Ferretone (though I will replace the Ferretone with salmon oil soon). Sherry, thanks for the tip. So since he still has a good appetite, it's probably not a stomach ulcer. That's a relief. He doesn't seem to have an ulcer in his mouth, but he was struggling when I checked. I will definitely ask the vet to check his mouth at his next appointment (he's a regular client!) and ask if the medication could be giving him nausea. In the meantime, I will give him a chicken wing tip to chew on, since he loved the last one so much.
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Ulcer?
Aug 17, 2013 16:05:48 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2013 16:05:48 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear you have ferret docs. I always find myself offering that advice, since I really feel that we would have had more time with Ponce, if I had been able to find a ferret specialist after we moved here.
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Ulcer?
Aug 17, 2013 17:33:57 GMT -5
Post by Sherry on Aug 17, 2013 17:33:57 GMT -5
Sylika- when he drinks does he act like the water bit him? That's the best description I can think of. Moving his head in to take a drink, laps 2-3 times and pulls back suddenly shaking his head like his nose had been nipped before moving in to drink again. That's a strong sign of a mouth or throat ulcer.
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Ulcer?
Aug 19, 2013 23:05:34 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2013 23:05:34 GMT -5
Poncesmom, I'm sorry for your early loss... You are right; that's very good advice to give.
Sherry, that's a good tip, but he drinks water without any problem. Today he was grinding (pretty loudly) again. Yesterday, when I gave him a chicken wing to nibble on (I held it for him), he would only crunch down on it from one side of his mouth, not the other. When I tried to introduce it into his mouth from the other side, he made a chewing motion in the air (almost like a reflex). :/ Really looks like his teeth or mouth are bothering him on that side!
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Post by Sherry on Aug 20, 2013 0:34:26 GMT -5
I think I'd actually have the vet take a very in depth look at his teeth then. Sometimes the more common reasons for tooth grinding can be overlooked while checking for the more serious problems.
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Ulcer?
Aug 23, 2013 19:35:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 19:35:54 GMT -5
Definitely will ask! They would actually get a good opportunity to check well while he's "tranquilized" - it's likely we'll have his ever-growing toe tumor removed through local anesthesia on his next visit.
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Ulcer?
Feb 13, 2015 11:12:46 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 11:12:46 GMT -5
Would Carafate be a good idea if the ferret has ulcers caused by pred. He was taking it for a non-IBD reason and I didn't know to give him food first. Now eating anything more than broth really hurts him, broth hurts too for that matter. He still tries to eat.
In retrospect, couldn't or shouldn't we all write to experts in the field, who have some influence, to get the warning on pred, similar to "Don't give with NSAIDS", only saying "Administer with or after feeding." I am dealing with a bunch of symptoms because my ferret (Teddy) would take his pred like a good boy, and now has serious pain because I didn't know to give him food first.
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