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Post by Heather on Jun 29, 2013 1:28:00 GMT -5
Name: Risa HF Forum Username: loutheferret 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I was always interested in feeding raw, but when Evo was recalled about 4 months ago (the main portion of their food) I began looking farther into it. I decided then to make the switch. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I want to feed a completely raw diet, but not necessarily whole prey. What I really need help with is figuring out how much of each protein group to give, or having a proper 'menu' for each week. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I don't want my ferrets lives to be shortened or made less happy because of the crappy kibble they could be eating. I can afford the raw diet, so I want to provide the best for them. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Yes!! 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I currently have two with me, the third is with my partner for a few months until he moves in with me. The two I have with me: Lou- 11 months old, male, no current health problems. He appears to me to be slightly underweight, but at 1.9 pounds I know that that's a healthy weight. He weighed 2.3 pounds before I began switching to raw. I've owned Lou for 9 months. Chip- 9 months old, male, no current health problems. Chip has nerve damage on his back legs and tail (not paralyzed, but enough to make a difference) and because of that is slightly overweight in my opinion, weighing 2.7 pounds. He weighed 2.9 before switching to raw. I've owned Chip for 7 months. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) I currently feed them split chicken breasts (with the bone), powdered egg, freeze dried liver, and duck liver. I'm waiting on a shipment from my butcher for chicken heart. My problem is that I don't know quite what to feed them and in what quantities (how much bone, how much muscle meat, how much organs? Should I feed just chicken, chicken bones, and chicken organs, or should I include beef or something else from time to time?) 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? I started switching them when Evo was recalled, and they all now eat a completely raw diet. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? Baltimore, my third ferret, also eats raw and my partner is very good about giving him what we think he needs. I will be passing all of the information I learn from this onto him so that he can properly take care of B while we're apart. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Currently my internet is a bit spotty (since I just moved to a new place), but my phone has internet so I'm always available to check posts. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). ...trying. I might have to make another post with their pictures. Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentor (Hurricanekatt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by katt on Jun 29, 2013 3:37:36 GMT -5
Location: Anchorage, Alaska Skpye name: hurricane.katt – I am on Skpye a lot so feel free to pop in and chat, or ask questions you want a quick answer to. I became a mentor because... I really like helping people (hence the whole wanting to be a doctor thing ) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, I got him when he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009, Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and he immediately ripped into it and started hissing to keep me away from his tasty prize! Neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first ferret and he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several foreign objects, and is constantly finding new trouble to get into (his nose has a rubber detector in it). He had to have an emergency blockage surgery, which (we believe) ended up being the catalyst that resulted in his IBD. He loves digging the carpet up, or more recently chewing it, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), he will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… He has IBD which we struggled to get control of (and finally succeeded!) with diet. He has recently had a second blockage surgery, and this week he will be getting his second Des implant for juvenile adrenal. He's been a handful, that's for sure! Kneai: male, Silver/Black Roan Mitt. I brought Kenai home towards the end of November 2010 when he was about 7-8 weeks old. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, frankenprey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He finally started shedding some fur and a little winter weight and is slimming up, but he is still a clumsy critter. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I thought Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpleton. He has trouble finding the potty box a lot, and he doesn’t learn very fast. He also is much less physically adept at things – he has trouble climbing and getting into/onto/out of things. He is sloooowly figuring out how to control his floppy body, but he definitely has some developmental delays. But, we love him just the same. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! He is fed frankenprey, f/t roents, and live prey. Unfortunately, his diet is somewhat restricted because of his IBD, but we've finally got a bit of variety back in. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poops were HUGE and smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur. Type of Mentor: In Training! I feed frankenprey, raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and recently added (for treats and supplemental) freeze dried raw and commercially ground raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help with picking a good kibble… My Specialty: Trouble makers! I focus on full switches to raw – no more kibble!
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Post by katt on Jun 29, 2013 3:38:23 GMT -5
Let's start off with a detailed description of your current feeding schedule. What are you feeding to each ferret, when, do you give meals or free feed, etc. Then I'll have an idea of where we need to start!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2013 11:00:54 GMT -5
Thanks for getting me a thread, I appreciate it a lot I do have a third ferret, Baltimore who is getting fed the same as Lou and Chip, but he's staying with my partner (he has much higher energy than the other two and I simply don't have the time for him at the moment) until we move back in together in August or September. I'll be relaying all of this information to him so that he can feed Baltimore properly too. They get two meals a day, morning and night, when I clean their cage. Lucky boys get to run around my apartment and play while I'm doing all the dirty work!! Alright, what they eat.... Chicken, primarily. The cut depends on what type of chicken is on sale at my grocery store at the time (although it always has to have bone in it). Currently I have 3 whole chickens on hand in the fridge and freezer. It's sold as 'whole chicken cut up, with giblets', so it also includes some organs and I think the heart, although I'm not 100% sure. I do take the skin off of it, but if it's better not to I won't. To get through those 3 chicken, their feeding schedule this week is: Today (Sunday): one half chicken breast, with ribs one thigh with bone, some breast Monday: giblets two wings, some breast tuesday: half breast with bone thigh, some breast (one whole chicken, gone) Continue that for wednesday, thursday, friday and again for saturday, sunday, monday. My concern is that I know they aren't getting enough of everything and they're getting wayyyyyy to much just plain chicken. I've got some heart and liver being shipped to my butcher that I should hopefully have in the next week or so, so I'll have a couple pounds of each that I can have on hand. Also, treats....They get freeze dried liver. I have a nice little rabbit toy that sits on the side of their cage, they can spin it and if they spin it right the treats pop out. They usually don't have more than one or two pieces a day though. They both smell a whole lot better and just in the past week or so I've noticed that their coats are much softer and are very shiny. They're definitely benefiting!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2013 11:03:23 GMT -5
I should've also added; I give them two meals a day, but I give them enough to last them until their next meal. So, I'll give them enough chicken to last for 12 hours so they don't go hungry, but only for 12 hours. There is usually only one piece left over by the next meal time. So I suppose you could also call that free feeding.....haha
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Post by katt on Jun 30, 2013 18:00:51 GMT -5
I do have a third ferret, Baltimore who is getting fed the same as Lou and Chip, but he's staying with my partner (he has much higher energy than the other two and I simply don't have the time for him at the moment) until we move back in together in August or September. I'll be relaying all of this information to him so that he can feed Baltimore properly too.Great! Keep me posted on his progress too. You can also encourage your partner to create a login and join the thread. Alright, what they eat.... Chicken, primarily. The cut depends on what type of chicken is on sale at my grocery store at the time (although it always has to have bone in it). Currently I have 3 whole chickens on hand in the fridge and freezer. It's sold as 'whole chicken cut up, with giblets', so it also includes some organs and I think the heart, although I'm not 100% sure. I do take the skin off of it, but if it's better not to I won't. The chicken you are describing does not include any significant organs. You will need to get organs, and hearts. Their diet should consist of 10% organ meat (half liver, half other organs), and 10% heart. On a 2 meal a day schedule (14 meals per week) this means that 1.5 meals a week should be organ, 1.5 meals heart. To make things easier, I generally recommend that you pick 2 days (say for example, the weekend) to use as the "organ and heart days." On these 2 days one meal is all organ (half liver, half other), one meal is all heart, and one meal is half organ, half heart. Then the 4th meal typically contains bone to re-firm up poops after the blood heavy heart and organ meals. The organ and heart content of their diet is SUPER important, so I recommend that you start checking your local grocery stores and butcher shops as soon as possible. Look for liver and heart, those are vital. Then for other organs look for items like kidney, brain, spleen, pancreas. Gizzards are NOT organ meat, they are muscle. Great for teeth though. If you can get some hearts, livers, and organs from more than one species (say pork, beef, AND chicken) that is preferable. As for the skin, that is good food, keep it on. As a species that does not ingest carbs, ferrets' primary energy source is fat. The fatty skin parts are very good for them, so it is best to not remove any skin or fat from any of their meals. In regards to the bone, if they are getting bone in every meal that is too much bone. Their diet should be 10-15% bone. This ends up being between 7-9 meals of bone-in meals. You are head of the game since your babies are already eating bones, that is good. Now cut back the bone and we will begin adding in other meats. The other important thing is variety. They should always have a minimum of 3 different proteins. The more the better, but never less than 3. For example chicken, pork, and beef are the most common 3. Then to mix it up more you can add in stuff like turkey, duck, rabbit, bison, lamb, goat, venison, cornish game hen, etc. Whatever you can find. Also, treats....They get freeze dried liver. I have a nice little rabbit toy that sits on the side of their cage, they can spin it and if they spin it right the treats pop out. They usually don't have more than one or two pieces a day though.Good. For now keep giving them a few treats a day until you can get your liver in. Do you know exactly when that will arrive? In the meanwhile is there anywhere else that you can buy some? Most meat sections of grocery stores carry liver. A lot of humans enjoy eating it (it's healthy for us too lol). Same for heart. Where are you located? Fred Meyers carries both if you have one, and Super Wal-Mart should as well. They both smell a whole lot better and just in the past week or so I've noticed that their coats are much softer and are very shiny. They're definitely benefiting!! Good fuzz.
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Post by katt on Jun 30, 2013 18:03:23 GMT -5
First let's start with adding in another protein. As soon as you are able to, pick up some pork chops. Or another meat if you prefer. Boneless pork chops, cubed beef, or ground beef are easy to work with. You want something easy to cut up to start with. Cut the meat into small pieces. First try hand feeding a tiny bit, scruff and stuff if needed to get them to taste it, and see how they do. If they take it well, give them a meal of it and watch them to be sure they eat it. If they seem hesitant, cut up some chicken to about the same size and mix the pork and chicken together so the pork (or other meat) picks up the chicken flavor a bit. Let me know how they do.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2013 8:59:30 GMT -5
My computer crashed last night, so I'll give a better response in a few days (I'm horrendous at typing on my phone). I don't know when the heart and liver will be here, but I certainly hope it's soon!! They didn't give me a delivery date. And I'll pick up some pork tonight? Any type or cut that's better than others for them?
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Post by katt on Jul 1, 2013 18:48:56 GMT -5
Any cut is fine. While you wait for the heart, I highly recommend that you get some Taurine supplement. Taurine is a VITAL part of their diet. You should be able to find some in the natural foods or vitamins section, or if you have a natural foods/supplements store in your area they should carry it. www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Taurine-Capsules-100-Count/dp/B0001VKIK0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1372721855&sr=8-2&keywords=taurineIs there a super Wal-Mart near you? They should have livers and hearts. The sooner you can get those missing pieces into their diet the better. I believe that the frozen meats section of Wal-Mart has a brand of deveined calf liver called Skylark. Here is a thread on the dangers of an imbalanced diet. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/11600/dangers-unbalanced-raw-dietAny cut of pork will be fine. Just remember that you will be chopping it up, at least for now, so if you can find anything boneless that will be easier for you to work with. And fatty cuts are totally fine. As mentioned earlier, the fat is really good for them. Let me know how they do! And I feel you on the phone thing, I use my phone a lot but I hate it. haha
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 15:11:39 GMT -5
My computer is back to working status, yay!! I've been working like crazy these past few days and haven't been able to shop for the boys, but today I only work until 9 and the grocery stores close at 11, so I should be able to pick up some pork. They both enjoyed some chicken breast and powdered egg shells this morning, so I'm sure they'll be happy with the change of pace that pork should bring tonight. Now that my computer is up and running again, I should be able to post regularly. I wish I could've for these past few days, but I ran out of data on my phone (I didn't know I could do that) so I had to go internetless for a few. Sorry about that But now I'm back!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2013 15:11:55 GMT -5
My computer is back to working status, yay!! I've been working like crazy these past few days and haven't been able to shop for the boys, but today I only work until 9 and the grocery stores close at 11, so I should be able to pick up some pork. They both enjoyed some chicken breast and powdered egg shells this morning, so I'm sure they'll be happy with the change of pace that pork should bring tonight. Now that my computer is up and running again, I should be able to post regularly. I wish I could've for these past few days, but I ran out of data on my phone (I didn't know I could do that) so I had to go internetless for a few. Sorry about that But now I'm back!
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Post by katt on Jul 3, 2013 21:48:04 GMT -5
Yay. Let me know how the pork goes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2013 22:37:23 GMT -5
They ate all the pork I gave them, so they must like it!! What about pork bones? are those too big?
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Post by katt on Jul 5, 2013 3:53:04 GMT -5
Great! Add that into their weekly rotation. Pork bones vary. Some ferret can manage pork rib tips, pork button bones, and other small pork bones, but some can't. It doesn't hurt to try. I give my boys bone-in pork chops. They will usually gnaw off the thinner bone on the ends and leave the larger center part. I remove that before it gets too dry so it doesn't get too hard and damage their teeth or pose risk of splintering. Now that they have pork and chicken, try another meat. Beef is a good one to have, lots of vit B. It is a stronger flavored meat though so be prepared for a little more resistance on that one. Turkey is also usually pretty easy to get, and fairly easy to introduce once they will eat chicken as the flavor is similar. Cornish Game Hen (CGH) is another good one - perfect eating bones! Smaller turkey bones are good, and the larger ones can be split for them and they should be able to manage. Either with poultry shears, or a hammer. My boys handle turkey wings okay, ribs are great, spine, neck, and legs all need to be broken up a bit though. Some ferrets need the larger bone of the turkey wing (what would be the humerus on a human, not 100% sure if it has the same name on birds lol) broken once or twice. Any progress on getting the heart and liver? Can you order some taurine supplement in the meanwhile?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2013 0:04:55 GMT -5
I've got some beef liver from the freezer section, still a wait on the heart....and I've asked all of my stores that might sell taurine powder if they do, and they don't. I also asked the butcher I ordered heart from and they said they couldn't get it for me and couldn't refund the money I had fronted them. I don't have the money to order taurine supplement this week, but my paycheck should be in my account on monday so then I'll be able to either order some or hopefully have found some heart somewhere.
Is turkey technically the same as chicken, or are they considered completely different?
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