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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 18:41:50 GMT -5
As some people might be aware of (by some, I mean maybe like 5 lol) I have recently been very tempted by ferret math. Up until recently I have been able to stave off my temptations because I had a plan, but now that plan has pretty much fallen apart. I was going to wait until I moved to NC in the fall to adopt a cage mate for Javik so that my boyfriend could be a part of the decision making, but with his mom in the hospital we've decided that me moving out there needs to wait until she's home and stabilized. Not only that, but My dad has now offered to pay my tuition at beauty school as long as I stay local for the full term I would need (I've wanted to go to cosmetology school for years now but didn't want to take out a student loan so I had been waiting to save enough for it).
Anyway, this means I'll be staying in Oregon for at least another year and a half since I likely won't be starting until fall term.
This has made me reconsider my adoption plans. I have mentioned before that I wanted to adopt a privately bred kit, and originally had plans to join the waiting list for Heather (lorelei)'s 2014 season kits, but since I won't be close enough to the usual pick up location, I've decided to research others breeders.
I am very interested in the kits from ferretown, whom if I'm not mistaken bred Mikey's Finn. I only just today contacted her so I have yet to hear back, but from her website she has 4 kits born in the spring and a Jill that's expecting this month. The spring litter only had 1 hob who looks to already paired with his forever home, and since I would really like another male right now, I'm hoping the June litter was successful and has a hob I can call my own. That is if Nancy approves of me, of course.
Anyway, my real question is concerning holistic care of hobs. I've only ever had MF ferrets, but am aware that privately bred ferrets can have a wide variety of different personalities and can be more feisty. What else should I expect to be different? What, other than the DES, is available in the us for controlling season? Is DES the best option with the least risks? Also, I've read some stuff about light cycles and the link to adrenal. What does this entail? My room is already kept dark at all times unless I'm in it and i keep the top half the cage coveted with a sheet, the rest of the cage is blocked from direct light, I have energy efficient black curtains that I don't open very often. Is it light in general that should be avoided, or is it just overexposure to a combination of natural and artifical light that becomes a problem? How much light and what source should a hob be getting daily?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 19:02:39 GMT -5
Your new plans sound great! I'm very happy for you.
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Post by Heather on Jun 24, 2013 19:29:35 GMT -5
I would suggest reading through an ongoing thread about Mikey's Finn. This is an excellent thread regarding keeping an intact ferret. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/5622/living-intact-hob?page=1 It is long but I believe it's an ongoing thread of a year of living with a hob. The good and the bad. If you have a ferret nation I would strongly suggest getting a cover for it. They're not expensive and they're worth their weight in gold as to controlling seasoning which both Mikey and I found is one of the most difficult issues in keeping a hob in your house (other than some of their uncontrolled urges and their love of their own stink). They're a bit more work. They're stronger, faster can be more single minded than our farm ferrets. They can bite harder, their jaws are very strong (hobs tend to love with their teeth but with proper behaviour modification they can be taught not to bite as hard) They can be terribly rough on their playmates, especially in season but if you're going to use DES (I believe that there is no issue about this with this breeder)it shouldn't become an issue. The DES is an ongoing study and appears to be a reasonable method of controlling seasons without any side-effects in non-breeding male ferrets. Keep asking questions, we will answer them if we can. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 20:06:46 GMT -5
I've been reading Mikey's thread and watching all of the videos, never realized how stinky they might be from all the comments. I've had whole sugar glider males and they stunk pretty bad, how bad is a hob's stink? That might become an issue with my family if it's too overwhelming. I'm still keeping an open mind about females, but I seem to prefer male pets as of lately. Does DES work the same with females? what are the pros and cons of a male vs a female?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 20:28:32 GMT -5
DES was only ever tested/had studies done for castration with males, several people on this forum who have had it used on females have had to stop using it due to side effects such as severe weight gain. Yes it can be used on female ferrets, but your mileage may vary. You would want a backup option in case the implant had to be removed.
Remember, a breeder ferret is not descented, so they can poof. From people's descriptions of poofing, it sounds like a skunk, but much much worse- think rotting meat baking in the sun or something awful like that. Luckily, unlike a skunk it airs out fairly quickly apparently and they don't do it too often as they get older and learn to control it. Family may not like that. And no vet is going to descent a ferret without health issues.
With hobs, controlling the lighting will be super important, especially if not implanted. You do not want to keep putting your hob back in season due to incorrect lighting messing up his seasons and dealing with his stink, slime and loving. I have no idea what an intact male smells like, but I've heard people can smell it on your clothes and things even if you haven't necessarily been handling the ferret that day. Eesh.
Females don't smell much, but controlling their seasons is super important, because if they go into season and are left in they can potentially suffer serious illnesses.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 20:40:26 GMT -5
What other options other than the DES is there for females? Just a late spay after the first season? Does spaying have any ill effects such as higher risk of adrenal? I wouldn't plan on descenting anyway, from what I've heard the us is one of the only states that still allows it as it's almost completely unnecessary as they get older (unless they're treated poorly).
Oh duh, almost forgot about v hobs and Jill jabs for females. I have a feeling I won't be able to find a v hob, how safe and expensive are Jill jabs?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 22:12:06 GMT -5
The smell is awful and the rub stink all over themselves. When our intact rescue came in he was in full rut. He looked as if he was covered inoil and grease. The smell will fill a room.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 22:24:38 GMT -5
Yikes, maybe I should get a Jill and wait until I move out to get a hob. Thankfully Javik doesn't smell at all or else I'd probably have trouble convincing my family to let me get a second. So in this case, I might just have to change the title to "what to expect when you have a jill" lol, is there anything I need to keep in mind with a privately bred Jill that's different than farm ferrets?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 5:53:31 GMT -5
Jill jabs aren't very expensive, but from what I've heard they can take them out of season, but they don't "hold" them out of season sometimes per say, as in, they'll have a second season later again in the year. V hobs are indeed hard to find, Heather is the only one I've heard of stateside, though I imagine some other breeders must have one to use. Spaying does not automatically mean adrenal, altering seems to start a clock from that point in which at some point years down the road the ferret could develop adrenal. Genetics and environmental/lighting play a huge part in this too though. Most late alters kept in good lighting conditions will probably not develop adrenal in their life, though some do. I think Heather had one hob who was a late alter who did late in his life. Still better than being fixed at 5 weeks and adrenal by 3 years though, if fixed at 1-2 years old and adrenal at 10.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 6:35:45 GMT -5
Yeah, intact hobs STINK. I was looking after one for a week and my friends could not sit in the living room with him in his cage, even if the litter box was clean. It was horrible, the stench. I wanted to cuddle him and just couldn't.
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Post by Thérèse on Jun 25, 2013 6:43:41 GMT -5
I have had a number of intact ferrets because here in Aus unless you get them from a rescue or the RSPCA they will be intact when you get them. I always have boys. Although I consider myself partailly smell-deaf I don't find the smell either of poofs or of a hob in rut that bad (and I don't think it is my smell disability). The thing with hobs in rut is the greasiness. Everytime you touch them you just want to wash your hands, it is really eewwww. Also they are much more prone to wandering when in rut and really have to be watched!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 7:13:39 GMT -5
Poofs aren't that bad. I've never smelled a skunk but I wouldn't say it's like rotting food.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 8:21:26 GMT -5
I think I lucked out with one of the most fastidious hobs I've ever heard of! As mentioned before, there is a large range in potential for how a hob can act and smell in his 'special time'. We were fortunate with Pimm that he's been able to be with the other two for the most part throughout his rut. He tried practicing on Raven, but was amenable to me telling him not to, just by removing him and redirecting him. Sometimes 10-15 times in a row. He was briefly separated from Cocchi when she went into season herself and we were all miserable. He was SO HAPPY when she went out again and was able to be with her - immediately flopped onto her as a pillow and fell asleep for a few hours with the happiest look on his face. For a few weeks Pimm stayed in a pen by himself after playtime, but lately the three of them have been sharing the cage happily. Pimm has Very Ticklish Testicles, so doesn't spend any time marking things.. which is fantastic. He's smellier and a little bit greasy and oh dear the hob tail he's getting right now, but he sleeps in the rice box and in whatever clean bedding he could find, which transfers a lot of stink away from his body. We've had three hobs in the house (separately!). The first was also our first experience with a whole hob - he was stinky and slimy and we had no idea what we were in for. We didn't make it all the way through Stout's rut, and were afraid of a repeat with Tuck when he first went into season and had him neutered quickly. Stout developed adrenal and then also developed a terrible reaction to the des implants. Poofing is not nearly as bad as skunk! It's a hard smell to describe since every ferret has a slightly different poof smell ( ). But maybe like burning garbage? Plasticky?
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 25, 2013 8:38:18 GMT -5
Poofs can vary in intensity depending on how often they do it. Normally the smell dissipates in about 10 minutes. Socks poofs and sometimes I can barely smell it when in the same room, other time I've smelled it when downstairs. I wouldn't say it is as bad as a skunk but it definitely has its own funk to it.
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Post by Sherry on Jun 25, 2013 9:50:18 GMT -5
You could always still do a hob, and just use the des implant for chemical neutering. From what I've read using the implant decreases smell even beyond that of a late alter.
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