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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 20:22:26 GMT -5
She TOTALLY is. She is paired with Ziva, our alpha, so that is a good reason why. When I used to feed her chunks she would carry them to a little nook and chow down, but won't ever eat in front of anyone. And that sounds like a GREAT idea! Any ideas on what I should make the den out of? What did you make yours out of for Socks? And just enough room for her head? Or her whole body?
(dance) you're awesome!
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 19, 2013 20:56:45 GMT -5
I used a large tupper ware that I painted black and cut one side out of. It served them well during their soup stage as they each had their own but they don't really use them anymore. I'd just use a cardboard box with a hole cut out of the side to let her in along with your arm / hand. You could try one large enough for her whole body but she might feel trapped. Here are what mine looked like: I think that was the day I removed their kibble for good. God Wilma looks soooo skinny in that video. She is a chunky butt by comparison now.
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 19, 2013 21:05:51 GMT -5
Here you can see Socks "think" she takes something off of my finger and look for somewhere to eat it (she misses though and doesn't actually have anything, silly ferret). At this point (which I think was before the video above), she was still so shy that she wouldn't eat her soup until Wilma was done hers even though they had their own bowl. Now a days they eat off of the same plate and don't care. They have come a looooong way and yours will too!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2013 20:56:22 GMT -5
Oh my gosh! What cuties! And yes, Mary Jane does that exact same thing. Thanks for posting those videos! Update: I put bowls of soup in both cages so that while one play group is out they have a opportunity to eat something at least until they get out for the attempted individual feeding. And to see what would happen! I always let Ziva and Jane out first because Ziva, being the alpha, makes all sorts of racket and tips all her bowls. Brat. but any who, whilst Jane and Ziva were playing I saw not only Izzy, but Lucy as well, eating small tastings (without prompting) from the bowl separately. (dance) And other awesome news, because of how much raw meat i had stuffed them with...they did not eat any kibble during the night like they usually would. both bowls weighed the same. (dance) and so the numbers for yesterday are: June 19: Izzy: 18g of Raw Soup Jane: 20g of Raw Soup Ziva: 28g of Raw Soup Lucy: 32g of Raw Soup Tomorrow I will create the feeding den for Jane. I have been running all over for work, and my poor little Lucy. She had what the vet thought was a slight bladder infection about 10 days ago, because her urinalysis indicated a trace amount of blood...I feel so bad...you cant ever see it in the litter...and I guess he did say I wouldn't have been able to see it anyway but I still feel awful..) I gave her meds to treat and we did the check up today. Today there still is even more blood than 10 days ago and he gave her a different med script and is doing a culture over the weekend to rule out a worse infection..and to see if we can rule out kidney issues...or worse.... Poor baby. I felt SO bad for her. today.
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 21, 2013 0:02:33 GMT -5
What kibble are / were you feeding? There is quite a bit of evidence that the Zupreem grain free is causing kidney stones in ferrets who are genetically predisposed to it (due to the peas and yams in it). You might want to have an ultrasound done to check.
On a more positive note. Great progress on them not eating their kibble and trying the soup on their own. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2013 17:16:22 GMT -5
yes, so happy on the soup. I did ask the chicken lady about organs, and they do not sell/package them due to the health dept. reasons for their processing place. However, haven't called or visited yet, but she recommended a local butcher 15 mins away from me that would have the goods. (: She apparently sends ALL her pet people there. haha. I feed them Totally Ferret kibble. I will totally ask for one when they call me on the results of the cultures on monday. aaaaand... Totally Ferret ingredients: Chicken-By Product Meal, Rice Flour, Dried Egg Product, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Poultry Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E),Wheat Flour, Corn Meal, Herring Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Liver Meal, Dried Brewers Yeast, Lecithin, Fish Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Salt, Whole Ground Flax Seed, Vegetable Oil, Calcium Carbonate, L-Lysine (essential Amino Acid), DL-Methionine (essential Amino Acid), Potassium Chloride, Taurine, L-Carnitine, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Manganese Sulfate, Inositol, Niacin Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Biotin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B!), Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Copper Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Iodate (source of Iodine), Manganous Oxide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol Bisulfite (source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid. Guaranteed Analysis: Protein (min) 36%, Fat (min) 22%, Fiber (max) 1.5%, Moisture (max) 10%
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 21, 2013 17:27:57 GMT -5
a pretty typical kibble. It is the the peas and yams in the Zupreem Grain Free that are suspected of causing kidney stones so you're probably ok in that dept.
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 23, 2013 16:49:36 GMT -5
How are things going? Any progress with their switch? Please try to update every other day just so I know what's happening with you and your fuzzies.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 22:11:27 GMT -5
I apologize! I will definetley do so! My computer cord no longer works so I've been trying to manage with my phone and longer updates are being difficult. Of course.
Switching has been alright. Even with the feeding den, Jane is being difficult. Today, like as I am typing, I decided to try adding some water to maybe make it more appealing to her. She will actually sit still and eat now. Any thoughts on this? They haven't had kibble for over 4-5 hours and she still wasn't impressed. All of my others are still slowly progressing I believe. Lucy and Izzy are definitely taking a lead in the raw in terms of the eagerness. (: Lucy and Izzy actually almost beg I would say for food. Lucy will sit and eat her fill all in one sitting (still helped by my finger, and with the thick paste unwatered down) usually about 28-38g once a night. Izzy likes to "snack" 3 grams at a time :/...but she will usually eat 20-25g throughout 2 hours. Ziva is still eating but not enthusiastically...which is disappointing.
June 20: Izzy: 20g Lucy: 30g Jane: 17g Ziva: 25g
Kibble eaten: Izzy+Lucy: 27g Ziva+Jane: 29g
June 21: Izzy: 25g Lucy: 28g Jane: 21g Ziva: 27g
Kibble eaten: Izzy+Lucy: 32g Ziva+Jane: 24g
June 22: Izzy: 19g Lucy: 37g Jane: 23g Ziva: 23g
Kibble eaten: Izzy+Lucy: 30g Ziva+Jane: 26g
June 23: Izzy: 24g Lucy: 35g Jane: 17g Ziva: 30g (They just went to sleep, so these are the final numbers for tonight)
Kibble eaten: Izzy+Lucy: 26g Ziva+Jane: 25g
Weights: Jane: 737g Izzy: 822g Lucy: 1077g Ziva: 910g
Any reason izzy and Lucy seem to be eating better but losing weight? ):
Any thoughts on the update? Or on Ziva being Unenthusiastic about feeding time?
Did I miss anything? And is it normal for the food eaten in kibble/raw to vary everyday? This concerns me, but I am the same way (somedays hungrier than others). Or are they very consistent day to day? I am not liking this phone set up! Sorry if my format isn't as neat as usual. This keeps erasing my post! ): hopefully my cord will arrive in the mail soon! Apologies again for not being as timely about the update. ):
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 22:13:46 GMT -5
And usually my phone will alert me when you post to our thread but I hadn't gotten anything yet! Naturally everything goes down all at once!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 22:20:52 GMT -5
Sorry, one last thing! Jane's feeding den was made out of a shoe box. I will try your exact set up to see if that works better for her instead. It may just be too big for her. I'm not sure.
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 23, 2013 22:47:16 GMT -5
Just cut the shoe box in half (then you have two dens). I'll update with a more detailed post tomorrow.
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 24, 2013 9:46:30 GMT -5
Ok, first of all, for future posts could you do a running total of their weights so I don't have to search for their previous weigh in? It just makes it easier for me to spot any issues: Weights: Jane: 737 g (25.9 oz) / 737g (25.9 oz) No change Izzy: 842g (29.7 oz) / 822g (28.9 oz) Not enough lost to worry about Lucy: 1117g (39.4 oz) / 1077g (37.9 oz) I'm a little worried about Lucy losing this much weight and her seeming to eat the most of the raw. Could you separate her and take a look at her poop? I'm wondering if the raw is going through her system to fast and she isn't absorbing enough of it. Ziva: 899g (31.7 oz) / 910g (32 oz) looks like she has gained a bit of weight Are they all eating the soup totally on their own yet or do you still have to finger feed any of them (or start with finger feeding and then they finish on their own)? This is what I need to know so that we can work on the stragglers. What I would do is reduce the kibble you give them by about a quarter and make sure they eat their fill of the soup. If they seem unenthusiastic. Try separating them as much as possible for a few hours with their own plate / bowl so they really have some privacy to eat (different levels of cage, some outside, etc). Remember the goal is to get them all willingly eating the soup on their own without encouragement from you. Once that is accomplished we can remove the kibble entirely.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 11:04:50 GMT -5
Again, so sorry about the posts not being so organized. I will post running weights next time. I always check all their poops and Lucy's has been almost precisely consistent with her kibble poops. Only slightly softer, not runny or anything. Same color. Same size. Ziva will eat on her own when she is hungry. On occasion I have to get her started with my finger and then she is good to go. Jane needs MAJOR help. She refuses to eat on her own, even watered down (tried it again this morning) and I cut the box in half. She still isn't impressed and just stares at me. Even finger feeding is stressful today. Izzy will eat finger fed, and will dip her head down to my finger (only if I lower it slowly) and take few licks from the bowl and then we have to start again. She sometimes will eat from the bowl on her own (only a few licks here and there... :/) Lucy will usually start finger fed and can finish on her own. Usually. (: I think it just depends in how lazy she is being. I will cut down in the kibble, and I will set up my spare smaller cage to try and do the feedings with whatever play group isn't out. Sound like a good plan? Does everyone usually have this many issues? Or is it just because I've got so many girls to keep track of?
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 24, 2013 12:15:31 GMT -5
Not a big deal. This is my second round as a mentor so I'm still getting organized as to what works well as far as the posts go. No need to apologize. Jane I am not to worried about at this point as she hasn't lost any weight even though she is reluctant with the raw (she is probably compensating with the kibble). With the reduced kibble maybe she will be hungry enough to change her mind. The others seem to be coming along nicely but we'll have to keep an eye on Lucy. Could you post another set of pictures of her (side and top) just so we can keep an eye on her weight? When you have one play group out, try putting each ferret in their own cage / level with their soup to see if that gives them more confidence. Believe me, you don't have many issues at this point. If you have the time, read some of the other switching threads, it will give you an idea of what others have gone / are going through. Some switches can take months (some cases even a year). Your girls seems to be coming along pretty normally so far. The switch itself it a LOT of work at the beginning and is quite stressful on the ferrant (I think most so than the ferrets). As they make the switch it gets a LOT easier.
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