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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 0:22:11 GMT -5
Welp, it appears that they are in their "not eating as much for summer" schedule. They only ate half of what I gave them, again! Tonight I gave them another full bowl with larger slivers this time. We'll just have to see what they eat by tomorrow. I'm going to have to get used to this. I will probably back off the rad cat and nv bites a little and give them a few more slivers. Does that sound okay? I'd like to get them eating at least more of a percentage of real meat if they aren't going to be eating as much as they have been.
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Post by katt on May 17, 2013 2:42:10 GMT -5
Another thing to keep in mind in addition to it being summer, is that now they have been on raw for a little while (eating the Rad Cat) and their bodies are starting to catch up on the nutrients and protein, so they are passing or past the initial phase of gobbling extra food to replenish their body. Those chunks look like a decent size, they are eating those okay mixed into the Rad Cat?
Yes, I would like for you to increase the amount of slivers and decrease the amount of other foods (Rad Cat and NV). As they become more familiar with the chunks, we will start to introduce other flavors as well, including organs and hearts.
What organs do you have access to right now?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 9:41:48 GMT -5
The larger slivers are usually left behind, but they generally eat the smaller ones. I keep trying to increase the size of the slivers but maybe it's a better idea to just increase the number of smaller slivers instead. At any given point I can buy chicken hearts, chicken gizzards and full cornish hens (if I recall correctly, they are packaged without the gizzard of the hen)...those are all at the grocery store all the time. I have a several butchers up the road that carry all kinds of meats, I just need to go visit them. So far, it hasn't been worth it because my little buggers won't eat what I bring home yet, but I'm excited to be able to start buying from the butcher instead of the pet health food store! I have to go out tomorrow so I'll swing by both the grocery store and take stock of what I can find there as well as go by a couple of the butchers to see what they have. Shoot! They have alligator at the big one! Below is their list of exotic meats and they also have a pet grind. I bet I can ask them for organ meats and they would have plenty! Thanks!!!! Ostrich Sausage Ostrich-Ground Ostrich Patties Ostrich Medallions Alligator Patties Alligator Sirloin Meat Ground Ostrich Antelope Patties Antelope Stew Meat Antelope Shoulder Roast Ground Kangaroo Kangaroo Python Pork Blood Kobe Beef Ribeye Steak Venison Stew Meat Wild Boar Stew Meat Ground Wild Boar Wild Boar Leg Wild Boar Boneless Shoulder Roast www.greenvalleymeats.com/
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Post by katt on May 18, 2013 3:19:21 GMT -5
Holy cow! That's quite the variety! That is great though, the more the better! For now yes, slooowly increase the number of chunks, and keep the size consistent h til they are more comfortable with them. The Rad Cat turkey, what does it have as far as organ and heart content do you know? I'm on my phone right now or I'd look it up. My phone is a pain in the butt. lol
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Post by katt on May 18, 2013 3:19:42 GMT -5
Holy cow! That's quite the variety! That is great though, the more the better! For now yes, slooowly increase the number of chunks, and keep the size consistent h til they are more comfortable with them. The Rad Cat turkey, what does it have as far as organ and heart content do you know? I'm on my phone right now or I'd look it up. My phone is a pain in the butt. lol
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 23:00:28 GMT -5
That's okay! I just got home from the vet, a ferret rescue and the health food pet store.... The ingredients in the rad cat turkey are: Turkey thigh and leg, turkey heart, turkey liver, water (sufficient for processing), organic egg yolk, organic dried ground egg shell (depending upon the shipment, they either have the egg shell or bone meal...it seems like every other time I buy it, it has the other one. this shipment has the egg shell), organic dried ground kelp, organic dried ground red algae, gelatin, organic dried ground psyllium husk, salmon oil, manganese gluconate. When I was there I also bought some frozen chicken necks. Going to try to chop off part of one to thaw out so I don't waste the whole package if they still don't try it. I had such a long day today, I will go to the grocery store tomorrow and see what they have in the way of hearts and livers and I will probably purchase a cornish hen to chop up. This morning we started our day going to the petpalooza: www.facebook.com/auburnpetpalooza and then had to be up at the vet at 1:00. By the way, adrenal disease is confirmed and Mickey got his first lupron shot. Also, got a weight on him while we were there..... 1249 (grams I think?) That makes him almost exactly what he was before...that's about 2.75 pounds I think? After the vet we went to visit a north end shelter and got to snuggle a couple of beautiful babies (and I didn't bring anyone new home!) then a stop at the pet health food store, a swing through a drive through to finally get something to eat and then finally home to eat and nap. I just woke up a little bit ago so I've had no time to get to the regular grocery store. Mickey was travelling in his cage from 11:00 this am to 5:00 tonight! He was put in a play pen at the ferret rescue and got to run around and get loves at the vets office, but I just couldn't drag him to one more place so we came home. I will let you know what I end up picking up at the grocery store tomorrow!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2013 14:26:01 GMT -5
So last night I gave them a bowl of food...only about half of what they normally get in one bowl. They ate the majority of it before bed so I put the food bowl in their cage to snack on during the night. Of course this morning it was licked CLEAN!!!!! hehehe Greedy little suckers. Anyway, so this morning I woke them but didn't let them out yet. I cut up chicken neck and "dressed" it with a little bit of rad cat and blood, put it on three little plates and put it in their cage. No takers. I was just curious to see if they would even sniff at it. They did sniff at it and one licked up some of the blood, but basically that was it. so in the meantime I made up their breakfast. This time it was about half chicken meat and gizzards and half rad cat and nv. I only made a half of a bowl....I can make up more if they want it but I'm tired of wasting so much food....it's expensive! hehehe I let them out of their cage to play in their room, but I'm thinking that they will be hungry since their midnight meal wasn't very big. When I left them in their room, Yogi was already eating out of his bowl....so I'm sure the others will soon follow suit. I also left the three plates with the chicken necks alongside their food bowls. I guess we shall see what happens! If they are hungry enough, my bet is that they scarf those extra slivers up along with the rest of the food. That would be a great step! And some of the slivers were a little larger....I got tired of chopping up those frozen gizzards and my fingers were getting cold! LOL If they finish that bowl of food, then they have improved! I will report back!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2013 17:12:11 GMT -5
Update: they've eaten nearly everything in their bowl...haven't touched the chicken necks. Just got back from the store...purchased another package of what they call "chicken trim". It's chicken bits that they cut off when they trim parts for sale. they are hugely cheap and there's good meat and fat in there. 1 pound of chicken/fat pieces for $.99 a pound. I also got a 20 oz bucket of chicken livers. They are fresh so I'm going to chop up a bunch and freeze them. Also picked up a cornish hen...and btw the hen is packaged without giblets. I'm not sure what that means but I suspect that there are no organs or heart in that package. I'm thawing it now so when it is thawed I'll chop it up and refreeze it in smaller bits. One question, I know that I'm passed the switch part of going from kibble to soupies, but do you still want a weekly update of their weights and stuff on that form? They have maintained their weight just fine...same as prior to the switch but adjusting for the spring thin down and thinner coats (well, for Yogi and Daisy anyway). Let me know though, I don't want to not follow the rules! I haven't bought a scale yet...my extra funds have been going to Yogi's medical issues and Mickey's adrenal treatment. However, I could get a scale next payday if you want me too. I know that it's something I should have but right now the extra monies are going to ferret medical bills at the moment. I really want to get one eventually anyway though! Thanks for everything! You are really helping me to step this up a notch...hopefully we can get these babies graduated to crunching bones in no time!!!!!
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Post by katt on May 19, 2013 19:58:43 GMT -5
That's okay! I just got home from the vet, a ferret rescue and the health food pet store.... The ingredients in the rad cat turkey are: Turkey thigh and leg, turkey heart, turkey liver, water (sufficient for processing), organic egg yolk, organic dried ground egg shell (depending upon the shipment, they either have the egg shell or bone meal...it seems like every other time I buy it, it has the other one. this shipment has the egg shell), organic dried ground kelp, organic dried ground red algae, gelatin, organic dried ground psyllium husk, salmon oil, manganese gluconate. When I was there I also bought some frozen chicken necks. Going to try to chop off part of one to thaw out so I don't waste the whole package if they still don't try it. I had such a long day today, I will go to the grocery store tomorrow and see what they have in the way of hearts and livers and I will probably purchase a cornish hen to chop up. This morning we started our day going to the petpalooza: www.facebook.com/auburnpetpalooza and then had to be up at the vet at 1:00. By the way, adrenal disease is confirmed and Mickey got his first lupron shot. Also, got a weight on him while we were there..... 1249 (grams I think?) That makes him almost exactly what he was before...that's about 2.75 pounds I think? After the vet we went to visit a north end shelter and got to snuggle a couple of beautiful babies (and I didn't bring anyone new home!) then a stop at the pet health food store, a swing through a drive through to finally get something to eat and then finally home to eat and nap. I just woke up a little bit ago so I've had no time to get to the regular grocery store. Mickey was travelling in his cage from 11:00 this am to 5:00 tonight! He was put in a play pen at the ferret rescue and got to run around and get loves at the vets office, but I just couldn't drag him to one more place so we came home. I will let you know what I end up picking up at the grocery store tomorrow! Sounds like a busy day! haha I'm sorry he is confirmed adrenal, but at least you caught it and are treating him. Kenai will be 3 in October and he is showing signs of adrenal already - sexual aggression and fur loss. He's going in for his implant this month.
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Post by katt on May 19, 2013 20:09:36 GMT -5
Good fuzz! That is a great step in the right direction. I'm glad they ate their chunks. Continue increasing the number of chunks and decreasing the rad cat. With that in mind, I would also start to slip little tiny chunks of liver and heart in there too so that as the rad cat and NV decrease, they will still be getting their heart and organs. Since you just got some liver, give that a try and let me know how they do. Don't be too surprised if they pick around the liver. It is more strongly flavored, so they tend to take a bit longer to get used to the flavor. Hopefully if it is well mixed into the mix though, they won't even notice it. One question, I know that I'm passed the switch part of going from kibble to soupies, but do you still want a weekly update of their weights and stuff on that form? They have maintained their weight just fine...same as prior to the switch but adjusting for the spring thin down and thinner coats (well, for Yogi and Daisy anyway). Let me know though, I don't want to not follow the rules! I haven't bought a scale yet...my extra funds have been going to Yogi's medical issues and Mickey's adrenal treatment. However, I could get a scale next payday if you want me too. I know that it's something I should have but right now the extra monies are going to ferret medical bills at the moment. I really want to get one eventually anyway though!Nah. Just keep a close eye on them. You post often enough, and they are eating well enough that I am not super concerned. That rule is primarily in place because we have had a LOT of people not really follow instructions, give ACCURATE updates, and use common sense. You are obviously quite aware of your ferrets' health and are really on top of thins with the switch, so I'm not worried about it. Of course if you DO notice anything unusual, post it. You are welcome! That's what I am here for. And thank YOU for being such a great ferret mom and mentee! It is really, really nice to have someone so in tune with their ferrets, on top of their diet, and who actually keeps me updated regularly!
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2013 21:15:05 GMT -5
This morning I added some liver to their meal. You know what helped was taking the raw unfrozen liver and cutting it with the kitchen shears. I was able to make them really small that way.
BTW...I stopped putting in pumpkin a few days ago but it seems like we are still having some fur ball issues. Last night Yogi was gagging a bunch so I gave him some ferretlax...I was out of pumpkin. UGH...when I went to get some yesterday it was rotting, so had to throw that away. Glad I have the ferretlax for emergencies though. So tonight we are back on the pumpkin. I will put similar amounts to what I used to in his food for a day or so then back off the amount like you suggested.
I will report back when I go see what is left of their food. I'm glad you told me about eating around the liver...I won't be surprised when/if I still see it there. I'm going to freeze most of it and then shred up a few ounces of it to freeze separately. I've quit giving them large amounts of food all at once now, but I'm checking on them more often and refilling their bowl if needed.
I was unable to find hearts at the store yesterday. They didn't have any chicken or otherwise. I asked the butcher and they only get them in on occasion. I will try another grocery store. The asian market is too far away to get to after work, but if I cannot find any before the weekend, I'll drive up to the asian market. I know they will have some. They have the best selection of nasty foods I've ever seen! They are bound to have heart of some kind! LOL
I'm going to go let the babies out now and check on their food....and start getting some pumpkin in to Yogi. I'll let you know what was left in the food dish!
Again, Thank you, Cherie
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 0:22:32 GMT -5
They ate all of their food except maybe a few bites....of everything. I think that liver was so small that they didn't even notice it. Tonight I kept the pieces very small still but added more of them. Nearly a whole lobe along with about the same amount of chicken. This batch was about 50/50 raw meat and rad cat with about a teaspoon of pumpkin mixed in and some warm water...just enough of that to make a little "sauce". They still love to have some sauce! No one has eaten any of it but they all went to bed around 8:30.
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Post by katt on May 21, 2013 12:15:35 GMT -5
Yay! Good fuzz! (dance) Another step in the right direction.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 19:56:14 GMT -5
I have a question...... someone on the fb page was saying how freaked out they are about poo. I knew there would be changes, but what should I be seeing in their litter box at this time in the switch. At first it started out really tar-like, black and sticky. Now it's not so much tar-like but it varies so much all the time, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing. I gave Yogi a bunch of ferretlax the other day, and when it came back out it looked much like the ferretlax...this I expected. But sometimes we have runny poo, sometimes it's not. I know it's fairly early in the game for their poo to stabilize yet, right? And should I expect varied poos because I'm changing up their food all the time? Thanks for your wisdom! Maybe I'll take a picture of what I'm cleaning up tonight when I do the puppy pad/litter box change. Sometimes I wonder if little Daisy is doing okay. I've put my husband on strict instruction to reduce the number of treats (n-bones) that he gives them and I can always tell when they've had more than what they should. But that aside, Daisy seems to be having runnier poos than the boys are. And they all seem to be pooing less than when it was tar-like. I'm assuming that they have gotten the toxins out from the kibble by this point, but if you could let me know what I should be seeing, that'd be great!!!! Thanks!!!!
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Post by katt on May 21, 2013 20:53:56 GMT -5
Yes, it is still a bit early for things to stabilize AND we are continuing to mix up their food adding in new flavors and textures and proteins. And yes, every poop will be different depending on the meal it came from. That is actually one of the wonderful things about raw diet IMO, I feel it makes it EASIER to track your ferrets' health via their poops. You can see exactly how they process each meal that you feed them. Organ poops will tend to be dark, and soft. They often look black and tarry. Same for heart poops. This is due to the blood content. Bone poops will be firmer and more well formed, and they may have small chunks of partially digested bone in them. Beef is a richer meat, and higher in iron, so it tends to produce darker poops. My ferret Koda is allergic to beef so if he gets a meal of it, he will have dark tarry poops for several days. Fatty meat poops can have white (or be all white). Whole prey poops are beautiful little tiny packages of undigested fur and nails. Are their poops pretty soft? That should start to resolve more as we move them to more solid foods. In the meanwhile, do you have a calcium supplement on hand? (What is the calcium content of the rad cat?). You might try adding a bit of calcium (powdered egg shell or bone meal work great) to their soup. This should help firm up their poops a bit. Try 1/4 tsp in the batch of soup, and see how they do. You can add a little more or less depending on their responses. As for the decrease in poop - welcome to feeding raw! That is one of the wonderful benefits! Raw fed ferrets poop SIGNIFICANTLY less and less often than kibble fed ferrets. They are actually absorbing more of what they eat versus having a ton of filler ingredients that just pass straight through. If you get a picture of the poops don't hesitate to post it. I'm no stranger to poop pictures! haha
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