Atvenneman's Switching Thread/Yurei Avalon

[Heather]

Name: Anna
HF Forum Username: atvenneman


Name: Anna
HF Forum Username: atvenneman

1.Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
I first learned about a natural diet for ferrets after I switched my dogs over to a raw diet. I started to look at a better diet for my ferrets

2.Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I would like to switch my ferrets over to a completely whole pray and raw diet

3.Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
I want my ferrets to live a happy and healthy life. I have been feeding a food that I was told was good but after researching found out it is one of the worst. I believe my first ferret died due to the terrible food I was feeding.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? I am aware it will be a challenge to switch my ferrets over to a raw diet. I have one that is wiling to eat meat already but the other four are going to be a big challenge.

5.How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?

Rolo – Male, 5 years old, No teeth problems, can gain more weight, I have had him his entire life

Tilly- Female, seven months, No teeth problems, good weight, I had her for three months
Shadow- Female, seven months, no teeth problems, good weight, I had her for three months
Milo- Male, estimated four, no teeth problems, good weight, I have only had him for a few days. No known health problems.
Jack- Male, estimated four, no teeth problems, underweight, I have only had him for a few days, I have a feeling he has adrenal disease (very itchy and sleeps a lot, very thin can feel spin, little hair of legs was told it was due to being infested with fleas and the hair grew back so his coat is not perfect.


6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) I was feeding marshall farm ferret food but am switching them over to evo so right now they are getting a mix until I can switch them to raw. Milo and Jack are eating a mix of a bunch of foods including blue bufflow cat food, marshall farms and others it came with them. Tilly will naw on meat already but she is the only one. I also uses ferretone when trimming nails. I have not given treats other then ferretone and ferret vite.

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? No I have not I have just offered raw food to see if I could get them interested and only one will try the stuff I put in.

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I work in wildlife rehabilitation so I am used to feeding whole prey mostly perkilled. I have no problems cutting mice rats and quail. It will be a new experience putting them in a blender

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? I have access to the computer everyday. My internet is slow so some times I have issues.

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Yurei Avalon), our newest mentor, will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[Deleted]

Hi Anna my name is Bethany and I'll be helping you switch your ferrets to raw with any luck! If you have any questions or have a problem and need an answer quickly you can email me at [e-mail] or pm me.

I'll post my into below so you can skip it or read it as you chose. For right now I'd like to know what your feeding schedule is, and what you have on hand available for meat for them. Have you tried making a soup yet for your ferrets?


Name: Bethany
HF Screen Name: Yurei Avalon
Location: NH, USA

About Me:
I’m 25; Someday I hope to run my own business as well as a nonprofit ferret rescue and education program. I currently live with my boyfriend Matt in a condo, which we hope to upgrade to a larger house in a few years. Once we build an appropriate house we intend to make the most excellent ferret habitat possible and look into getting privately bred ferrets, living as natural a life as possible.

My favorite color is..... Silver
My favorite food is.... Chocolate, followed by spicy things
My favorite holiday is.... Halloween
My favorite hobby is... Reading
I like to listen to... Pretty much anything but rap and country.
I collect... Ferrets! Model kits, Mounts/pets in WoW and MtG cards
Something about me you might be surprised to know... When I was a sophomore in high school I won my town’s fall chili cook-off contest with the recipe my high school culinary program gave to me. It got me $100, a story in the local newspaper and to this day, that chili recipe makes everyone who tries it a believer. (Turkey Cilantro for those inquiring minds.)
I became a mentor because...
I switched my own ferrets using information and tips I found on this site and from other places on the internet. I know from painful experience what a poor or inappropriate diet can do to a pet and I don’t want anyone to have to see their animal suffer like I watched mine suffer growing up. I’ve also made mistakes in pet care in the past, and I feel that the best way to atone for them is to learn everything I can to make myself the best pet parent I can be so that it never happens again. And if I can help other people do the same, so much the better!

About My Ferrets:
I currently have 9 ferrets with no desire to have more for now as I feel I am at the limit at which I can handle caring for them all appropriately. I have 6 hobs and 3 jills, all of which are Marshall Farm ferrets and are all young. Most of my ferrets were eating kibble for several months and then were switched to raw. The three newest went straight to raw the day they came home from the store. My ferrets are very spoiled- they have 4 triple unit ferret nation cages and a couple of hundred feet of tunnel connecting them to each other as well as a ferret playroom.

1. Murder – Male, sable. One of our oldest two ferrets, he is our alpha and a bit over a year old now.
2. Mayhem – Female, sable. One of our oldest two ferrets, she is still stuck on the soupy stage and is a bit over a year old now.
3. Artemis – Male, albino. My only “rescue”, purchased off of CL. He’s believed to be about a year old now.
4. Chell – Female, silver panda. A sweet, deaf wardy girl who is about 8 months old now.
5. Glad0s – Female, silver. An 8 month old, tiny jill who can out eat the hobs and is a tunneling expert.
6. Zar’thun – Male, dark sable. A well behaved, 7 month old hob with an excellent nature.
7. Stormageddon – Male, polecat. A clever 5 month old hob who believes he will one day rule the world.
8. Sigma – Male, dark sable. A 4 month old hob with a temperament as sweet as the Ood’s song. A real cuddle bug.
9. Wheatley – Male, silver panda. A 9 month old hob who may be a few sandwiches short of a picnic but he’s as affectionate as any other ferret. Currently still stuck at the soup stage.




About My Natural Feeding Experience:

Type of Mentor:
I have fed kibble so I have experience judging quality of kibbles. I mainly feed commercial raw products right now and I also use raw, meaty bones and muscle meat. I am trying to secure myself a local raw meat supplier so I can begin to transition my group to a full frakenprey, non commercial, homemade diet. I also use freeze dried and jerkied meats.

My Specialty:
I would have to say that I seem to find creative ways of getting ferrets to try new things when the normal process just isn’t working for a stubborn ferret. I’ve never fed whole prey, but I could certainly come up with ideas to help others who wanted to try get there.

Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=switch&action=display&thread=10029#ixzz2JDDq85cL

[Deleted]

Hello Bethany. I am so sorry I did not realize I was excepted yet. Now that I know where to start posting my switching details I will now post them. I am not at home at the moment but when I get home I will post all the starting weights of my guys I have it written down at home. I have tried the soup right now only a two out of the five has shown interest in the soup. Right now all I have is chicken and turkey, all the organ meat I could get was from turkey as well. I ordered online from hare today some ground up mice, pheasant and rabbit to get more of a variety. I figured chicken would be a good start though. One of my girls Tilly will try to take a bit of a turkey tail I have gave her. She seems to not be able to break off very much but she tries. Tilly is doing the best with the soup. I think she is doing the best because sadly I lost her one night she escaped through the garage door that was not closed all the way and I was missing her for three days. Someone found her and she had made her way into a chicken coup and was eating a dead chicken ( I pretty sure she did not kill the chicken even thought that is what the people thought she is so tiny only six month old) I was so lucky to get her back I will never make that mistake again. Because she was forced to eat something or die I think that is why she is so willing to eat meat now. If only I can convince the others. Shadow my other young one is not taking to the soup as well she sniffs it and runs. One of my new rescues Jack will eat the soup. Milo and Rolo I have not seen them try it at all.

[Deleted]

I am still giving them evo ferret food though just because most will not eat the soup.

[Deleted]

Ok, a few questions to get us started...

How are you feeding them the soup? Are you just leaving it out in a dish for them? Have you tried hand feeding it out of a spoon or offering some smeared on a finger?

Is the soup being served cold or warm? If you warm it up with some hot water, they are more likely to try it since it will release some of the scent.

Have you tried mixing any favorite treats into the soup?

Have you tried dabbing a bit on their noses or stuffing and scruffing? Dabbing or wiping a bit of soup on their noses every day forces them to smell it, and eventually lick it off of their nose or another ferret's to get it clean, and eventually it tricks them into tasting it repeatedly and realizing it's food.

[Deleted]

I first put the soup in the cage Tilly took to it and so did one of my new older guys jack. Shadow I tried to put some on her nose to get her to lick it but she freaks out I took me awhile to get her to take ferretvite she still will not take ferreton. Rolo i put on his nose se licke d it but that is as far as his interest. Milo will not even lick it off his nose he just shakes and runs. I have not tried to put some straight into the mouth yet perhaps i will try that tonight. I make the soup with warm water so it starts out warm. I have not mixed any treats in the soup yet. They are not much into treats. I will try adding ferretvite all but shadow might like that better. Thanks for the tips.

[Deleted]

Try scooping some onto a finger and offering it to them, they may think you're giving them a treat and try licking it. If that doesn't work, you can try gently scruffing them, waiting for them to yawn and open their mouth and wipe a little on their tongue. The more they taste it the faster they will get used to the idea.

[Deleted]

Sorry I am not replying every day I no longer have internet at home so I have to go to my parents. Tilly is scarfing down all the food. Jack with eat some after I get him started but does not eat that much. Shadow starter to eat some after I stuff it in her mouth by scuffing she ate a little after taht on her own but then leaves it alone till i put more in her mouth. Rolo with eat very little when I have it on my finger. Milo could care less even when I scruff him and put it in his mouth he will eat it and does not seem to mind the taste but will not eat it with out me putting it in his mouth. I have been giving them ground chicken meat with one chicken liver and two chicken hearts. I hope they are hearts any ways the package I got is hearts and Gizzards but mostly gizzards that is the only way I can find it. So I have to dig to find a heart. What do gizzards count as an organ meat or nothing? I also crush egg shells. I started to mix in the powder called better in the raw it is suppose to be mixed with ground meat and water and is suppose to be a balanced raw diet so I am not sure if that is making me over dose them on stuff. I just added it because I want to make sure they are getting all the nutrients they need. Should I try to feed tilly the one who loves the soup some chunks? Or should I wait for the rest to catch up to her? Tilly is looking good to me she was a little on the thin side now seems perfect. I just hope I can get my three old guys to fatten up not sure if they will if its just an old ferret thing to be sunken in at the hips but they do feel bony when you pet them.

[Deleted]

Anna, is this the powder you are feeding? Is it the cat or dog version? www.knowbetterpetfood.com/cat_food_better_in_the_raw

If this is the product you are using, I would stop using it. Neither the cat nor dog version is suitable for ferrets- psyllium husks are dangerous to a ferret if not prepared correctly, and the kelp and barely grass powder is useless to them. Also with the liver powder in there, if you are feeding fresh live they could potentially build up a vitamin A toxicity over time.

Gizzards are a muscle meat, they are fine to feed, just know that they are not an organ meat. Hearts look pretty different from gizzards, there's usually 3-4 in a package of gizzards from my experience. Can you find beef heart? Sometimes my super market sells that. If not, you can substitute taurine powder instead- 500mg per ferret per day.

I would try offering Tilly some chunks to see if she'll eat them. Start her with smaller slivers and work her up slowly in size. You can also try small slivers of bone with her too if you want- I recommend cleavering up a chicken wing into small pieces.

Does this ground chicken meat you're feeding them contain fat or the skin? Fat is an important part of their diet, they need a high content of fat in their diet, particularly in the winter. I t might help put some weight on the old guys as well. Pork and duck are fattier meats, you can buy beef fat (sometimes called tallow) in the super market a lot, or unsalted/unprocessed pork belly, or lard if you can find it with no salt or anything added. You can also just feed them lots of skin on chicken meat. Have you been feeding them the egg shell daily?

How have their poops been? runny, firm etc?

You may have to hand feed them a lot for a week or two to encourage them to eat the new food and slowly get used to eating on their own. Persistence on your part is key, if you keep making them taste it they will eventually come around. It's also important not to be staving your old guys- if they're not eating much raw, make sure to feed them some kibble they will eat between raw soup feedings, just be sure to take away kibble or raw a few hours before offering the other so their tummies don't get upset.

[Deleted]

The in the Raw powder I added is for ferrets not dogs or cats even though the pamphlet they gave with the sample bag of ferret in the raw was for cats. The bag has a ferret on it. I have been giving them egg shells I forgot them the first day I made the soup but have been doing it ever since. As far as the chicken it is just ground chicken like hamburger it does not have skin or a high fat content I could not find any ground chicken that was not 90% fat free. I will buy some chicken wings and try that. Can you put a whole chicken wing in a blender not sure if the blender can handle the bones. I will see if I can find some beef heart. It seem my grocery store changes what they have the first time all i could get was turkey parts then next was only chicken. I have access to quail and mice I work at a wildlife center so we have them all the time (frozen) should It try grinding a quail? I am sure Tilly will eat chunks of meat. I have given her turkey tail and she would pull the fat off of it. As far as there poos they do not look like they have changed yet. I have not seen any runny poops since trying the soup. Before I started Rolo had runny poop I figured it was because of stress because I got the two rescue males. I have not seen any more so i am hoping he is through with it. I still keep the new guys separate from my other three except when I let them out in the mornings and night.

[Deleted]

Can you take a picture of the bag of powder you are using's ingredient list or write out the ingredients as I didn't find a mention of it online? I'm worried about what might be in it.

Blenders get destroyed trying to chop up bone, I do not recommend trying it. You can either strip the meat and skin and fat off of the wing and blend it up or just chop the meat into fine slivers, bones can be cut up too with a good heavy knife such as a cleaver. You can certainly grind up quail, it is an excellent protein source for them! A good blender might be able to handle mice, not sure as I never tried.

[Deleted]

Here are the ingredient for In the Raw:

Ingredients: Egg yolk, calcium lactate, liver powder, gelatin, whey protein concentrate, EFA from fish, taurine, kelp, barley grass powder, Vitamin B complex, Vitamin E succinate.

The website is www.knowbetterpetfood.com/raw_ferret_food

Well I did not make it this time with ferret in the raw. But because I cannot find fatty meat everything is 99% or 97% fat free, the butcher at the grocery store gave me some beef fat he trimmed of some beef. I took a chunk of the beef fat some ground turkey meat with chicken hearts and liver, egg shells and blended it together. My soup is more of a paste. With the added fat the soup was a little stringy. The ferrets seemed to like it better because I did not have to force too much down Rolo and Shadows throat to get them to eat some. They still will not eat it with out my putting it on a spoon near there face. Not sure why they will not eat it from the bowl. Milo is the worst one. He will only eat it if I force it on him. I tried to give tilly a heart by it's self but she did not eat it. I did buy some chicken drum sticks with the skin I think she will like to eat the skin. I will try to give it to tilly tomorrow. I just got my camera cord to charge my camera (my rabbit ate the cord) so now I will be able to take pictures and I will post the weights.

[Deleted]

Does your super market sell chicken thighs with the skin on, or "country prepared" chicken (that's usually half a chicken just cut into sections- whole leg, breast, wing with the skin on, sometimes giblets in one package)? It's really important for them to get plenty of fat in their diet, or they won't put any weight on. Pork is a fatty meat in general.

If the soup seems thick, you can try adding some warm water to it to thin it a bit. They will want to be hand fed for a while, all you can do is try and train them to eat out of a bowl over time. What I did was get a bunch of raw all over my hand and gradually led the ferret to the bowl, then dropped my fingers into the soup to get their head to follow me. After a few seconds I pulled my hand out and they kept eating from the bowl. Try that with the spoon for a few days, see if they get the hint.

[Deleted]

I put a whole drum stick in and Tilly ate a large portion of it. She loved the skin. She carried it around the cage nibbling on it ever so often. Jack the other one that is eating the soup very well did not want anything to do with the drum stick. He still will eat a lot of the soup. I gave them pheasant that was all ground up meant bones and organs and added water to it to make it a soup they were not as crazy for it but eventually ate it. Shadow will only eat the soup if it is off a spoon same with rolo even though he eats a lot less then shadow. Milo is the only one I cannot get to eat the soup unless i force it down his throat. I still have to give kibble because I am afraid that Milo and Rolo will starve to death possible Shadow too. Tilly and Jack are the ones who are doing very well on the raw diet. In fact I can tell there has been some changes in them. Jack still likes to sleep a lot but he is being a bit more active and also his coat is growing out (He was bald when I got him due to a bad flea problem) His coat looks much better. Tilly and Shadow are super soft but that could be also because they are still so young but they do feel softer. I am surprised that shadow is softer just because she does not eat as much raw. Rolo there has been no change but again he does not eat very much of the raw and same with Milo. I hope when I get those two to eat the raw they will fill out and not look so bony I know when they get older they get the sunken in hips but I hope the raw food with help fatten them up.

[Deleted]

Do they have any favorite treats they like? Fish oil, olive oil, ferretone, etc? You can try mixing some into the soup to coax the reluctant ferrets into eating it. Or as a last ditch effort if they are not eating it, grind up some kibble into a powder and sprinkle it on top of the soup, try and get them to eat it. You could also step back a step and make kibble soup for the stubborn ones- mashed up kibble mixed with water, slowly adding raw meat to it.