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Post by bitbyter on Apr 25, 2013 8:18:17 GMT -5
hi! just smashed the heck out of necks and wings with the cleaver ^_^ loving it ^_^ so awesome... meals/menu looks good... glad to hear i can switch to chicken liver permanently if that would be better? It's not a question of "better", just more variety. because panda is so dang fussy switching half way through would likely be a bad idea [image] but i will let you decide what you think is best pressure ;p [image] so, have prepared their meals etc based upon the weights you supplied. the first batch has chicken wings and necks, but the butcher had no more wings so the next two batches have necks only. is that bad? Not "Bad", but this is why we stress variety (especially since you don't have a lot of freezer space available). If your fuzzies are used to a variety of meats then it's not a big deal when you can't find something. When you are getting low on something call your butcher ahead of time as he can probably get it in as long as you give him a day or two warning (ask him how much lead time he needs)i used 4oz of giblets and 2oz of beef as they were low on beef this time around, the last batch has slightly less giblet and slightly more beef though... is that ok??? Yep, not a problem.I DIDN'T PUT EGGSHELL POWDER BECAUSE I WASN'T SURE IF I NEEDED IT! if i do i will add it tomorrow. is it still 1/2 tsp??? As long as they are crunching and eating the bones of the bone in meats you are providing then you don't need it. It is good to have on hand though if you find they are getting lazy and just eating the meat off the bones. In that case I just sprinkle a bit on their meat (three or four small pinches).i also didn't add pumpkin yet because i wasn't sure how much to put??? I tend to add 1 tsp to their meal every other day (every day during shedding season) and just mix it in. This is cooked, pureed pumpkin.erm... what else was i gonna say... oh yeah! i weighed them! Sable is now 25.28oz and panda is 27.34oz... panda is a chubber [image] does it matter what time of day they are weighed or if they have eaten first??? Time of day shouldn't matter. Try to be consistent as to whether you weight them before or after a meal. I would suggest before.i put 5oz in their bowl today, do i weigh it after they have their initial nibble or at the end of the day??? Just before you decide how much to give them for the next day.and..... oh, i may not be online at all on monday... have a funeral... so reckon i will be too upset to do anything but i will try to come online any way... Not a problem.posting a picture of the freezer space i am permitted lol... buying another freezer isn't an option at this point as there is literally nowhere to fit it [image] In that case this is what I would suggest. 1. get something you can place behind the bar to let you stack things up (a piece or cardboard or something else stiff). 2. cut up all your meats into meal sized pieces, weigh everything out and store in plastic bags. This way you can use all of your available space. I know throwing out the bags is a waste but you really need to make the most of your available space. Let me know if freezer space is still a problem in a week or so as I may have another idea but it could be a hasselanyway... i just spent two hours preparing ferret food... now it's time to cook some human food [image] see ya later!
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Post by bitbyter on Apr 25, 2013 8:27:24 GMT -5
;D I was wondering about the amounts you had posted earlier as 3 oz sounded a little low to me for two young kits. Also, keep in mind that ferrets go crazy with their food for a few weeks after initially changing to raw. I think my girls were polishing of 6 oz at one point but now have settled down to about 3.4 oz to 4 oz as their norm. Right now it is closer to 5 oz as Wilma is bulking up for her "winter". All you can really do is follow their lead. As for the stashing, unfortunately that goes hand and in hand with owning raw fed ferrets. Is there no way to remove the tunnel and shake it out? I made this mistake with my wall mounted tunnels and I have locked them out of them until I redesign them to be easily cleaned. I don't want flies over the summer As long as you are reasonably accurate with the amount you are giving them, anything they stash they should eaten before the next meal. I always try to do a stash raid and clean them all out before I give them their next batch of food. When cleaning out a stash, make sure they are distracted by something else or they may get upset and change their stash spot. Also keep in mind as they are eating raw they can go for at least 4 hours between meals if not longer. My girls sometimes go 8 but I try to keep it closer to 6. How is Panda doing? Is she still being fussy or had she joined the raw bandwagon?
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Post by Sherry on Apr 25, 2013 8:29:06 GMT -5
Hi Okami ;D It does sound like they are going through their appetite increase! This will likely last for about a month, then they'll cut back to more reasonable levels, and come your spring time you'll wonder if they are sick because they'll eat just that much less! Okay, for cost savings- check out prices at various places and go for the cheapest cuts of everything. And frankly- the tougher the meat the better! Buy last day sales. Talk to friends who have freezers and let them know you'll happily take their slightly freezer burned meats. Put an ad in your local online ad place asking if anyone has a small freezer for cheap! If you can get something like chicken necks in bulk, get them and use those as your base for bone in meats. You can always get a smaller package of something else during the week to switch up. Do you have something like freecycle where you are? Once or twice a year I'll put in a request for slightly freezer burned meats to use as pet food. You'd be amazed at what I get that way, even if I do have to drive to several places to pick it up ;D All I do is cut the burn part away. While this can't be used as the main part of the diet as it DOES have less nutrition no reason it can't be used for 2-3 meals in a week. Do you have farmer's markets(outdoor markets) etc? Sometimes you can get meat and meat scraps at days end cheaper simply because they don't want to cart everything back again.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 22:07:36 GMT -5
as far as i can tell they are both eating bone, but i has an incident today with sable, she got a large piece of bone wedged in the corner of her jaw and couldn't break it, but i saw her turning in circles trying to chew something so i thought it was plastic lol. soon spotted the problem and removed it. she was very grateful ^_^ panda is eating just find now, she has started getting more serious about bones but i am still a tad concerned she isn't getting enough... might sprinkle a teensy bit of eggshell powder into their batch just because panda probably isn't getting enough knowing her their food was not completely gone this morning, i'm going to let them eat their stashes before i fill it back up, i will stick to 5oz per meal as this seems just right for the two of them so... does this mean they need higher concentrate of muscle and bones in meats??? wasn't sure... but i can always bulk it up whenever is needed also... tagged you in a pic of poop on facebook, well two pics, don't know who's they are, but one looks seedy and one looks like... something! i was concerned about a blockage... now, question... can i crush up a bunch of eggshells and store them for later use? do they ever go bad??? and can i cook up a large amount of pumpkin and puree it and then just freeze it in ice cube trays like suggested??? how many cubes would i give them? one per day? per week? going shopping today i am working on obtaining a freezer, trying to negotiate with the man to let me get one i have never heard of freecycle :/ but we do have markets but they are a bit of a drive, but i will look into it this morning the girls only had a small mouthfull of food left in their cage.... but it could be stashed
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Post by bitbyter on Apr 26, 2013 14:52:38 GMT -5
as far as i can tell they are both eating bone, but i has an incident today with sable, she got a large piece of bone wedged in the corner of her jaw and couldn't break it, but i saw her turning in circles trying to chew something so i thought it was plastic lol. soon spotted the problem and removed it. she was very grateful ^_^ Yep, this can happen. Wilma got a piece of gristle stuck in her back teeth today. First time since I've been feeding raw. She gave me kisses after I pulled it out. Yummm!!! Fresh raw meat kisses! panda is eating just find now, she has started getting more serious about bones but i am still a tad concerned she isn't getting enough... might sprinkle a teensy bit of eggshell powder into their batch just because panda probably isn't getting enough knowing her [image] Sounds good. You are the only one who can judge this.their food was not completely gone this morning, i'm going to let them eat their stashes before i fill it back up, i will stick to 5oz per meal as this seems just right for the two of them so... does this mean they need higher concentrate of muscle and bones in meats??? wasn't sure... If they are eating 5 oz per day at the moment, just figure out how many days need to be bone in, how many days need to be muscle and go from there. Organ weights don't change.but i can always bulk it up whenever is needed also... tagged you in a pic of poop on facebook, well two pics, don't know who's they are, but one looks seedy and one looks like... something! i was concerned about a blockage... Signs of a blockage would be either no poop or very thin ribbony poops. Make sure you are giving them enough pumpkin. Both of those look Ok (if strange) but poops tend to be funky for quite a while when ferrets are new to raw. There is a poop chart on the forum.now, question... can i crush up a bunch of eggshells and store them for later use? do they ever go bad??? Whenever I cooked with eggs, I rinsed out the shell and put it back in the carton. The fridge would then dry them out. When the carton is done I would then either pound up the shells in my mortar and pestle or put them in my coffee grinder (only used for egg shells and spices). I did a big batch when I started my raw switch and probably have enough to last for years now (no they don't go bad). can i cook up a large amount of pumpkin and puree it and then just freeze it in ice cube trays like suggested??? how many cubes would i give them? one per day? per week? going shopping today Yep, if you want. I have little plastic containers that I put my pumpkin puree in (enough for about a week). If you have anyone in your neighbourhood or know someone who has a baby, baby food jars would work as well.i am working on obtaining a freezer, trying to negotiate with the man to let me get one [image] If you can get a small college sized one (same size as a college sized fridge 4.6 cu. ft / 127 L) they don't take up much room and provide plenty of space for raw for two ferrets. I actually have mine on top of the dresser in the ferret room. I'm doing a clean of their room this weekend and if I have enough time I'm going to redo their tunnels as well. I'll do a video tour for you.i have never heard of freecycle :/ but we do have markets but they are a bit of a drive, but i will look into it this morning the girls only had a small mouthfull of food left in their cage.... but it could be stashed Did some online hunting for freezers for you this afternoon. This is like what I have: www.ebay.com.au/itm/Westinghouse-small-upright-freezer-Silhouette-121-/251263988025?pt=AU_RefrigeratorsFreezers&hash=item3a80803139 but they seem to be pretty rare in your neck of the woods. These are the closest ads I could find somewhat locally to you for small freezers: www.gumtree.com.au/s-tas/tucker+box+freezer/k0l3008843 but they are in Hobart (not sure how much of a drive that would be for you).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 17:42:27 GMT -5
wow thanks for the freezers! hobart is three hours away... bit of a hassle for me at the moment have put up notices around my uni fingers crossed i know that organ weights don't change. but i don't know how to work out muscle meat and bone in weight requirements... i'm just doing as you say i don't know how to determine what they need... i couldn't find an ice cube tray so it's just in a plastic container in the freezer. will last for quite a few batches ^_^ i've heard that you should check a ferrets mouth often when they eat raw. how often should i do this and is there a particular place i need to keep an eye on??? panda still isn't showing signs of a winter coat... but i'm certain she and sable were both born in the spring... sable has a winter coat but panda just... wants to be a pain also how would i get them to use the new eating den? i've been sticking their food from the tubes into it but they don't seem to get it or maybe they don't like it? but they play in there lololol i'm not too stressed about getting a freezer, my mum has a large tuckerbox freezer and has offered for me to use some space in it so might take her up on that offer if i can't find a little one for myself scouring for a freezer so will let you know just wanted to thank you again for all the help you've given so far the girls appear to need about 7oz per day, i give them 5oz in the morning but they require a refill before bed usually... need to work out exact amounts have a good day/night!
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Post by bitbyter on Apr 26, 2013 18:23:45 GMT -5
wow thanks for the freezers! hobart is three hours away... bit of a hassle for me at the moment [image] have put up notices around my uni fingers crossed i know that organ weights don't change. but i don't know how to work out muscle meat and bone in weight requirements... i'm just doing as you say [image] i don't know how to determine what they need... The goals to aim for are (this assumes 2 different meals a day, I usually prepare 1 and use it all day):
8-9 meals (4-5 if feeding once per day) per week of consumable bone in meat (chicken wings, chicken thighs, cornish hens, quail, whole prey, chicken backs, pigeons, grouse, pheasant, rabbit, any small consumable bone in meats).
3-4 (2-3 if feeding once per day) meals per week of muscle meats (at least one of which NEEDS to be heart)
2 oz liver and 2 oz other organ per ferret per week (spleen, kidney, testicles, brain, etc). Organs are anything that secretes.
A MEAL is based on what they are eating in a day by weight. For example. If they are eating 7 oz a day (make sure they aren't stashing a lot of it) then you can either count that as 1 meal or break it into 2 x 3.5 oz meals.
A bare minimum of 3 proteins (the more the better) are needed to cover your ferret's basic nutritional needs.i couldn't find an ice cube tray so it's just in a plastic container in the freezer. will last for quite a few batches ^_^ i've heard that you should check a ferrets mouth often when they eat raw. how often should i do this and is there a particular place i need to keep an eye on??? I check mine about twice a week but generally they will let you know if they have something stuck in their teeth (they'll paw at their mouth). Also make sure to check the roof of the mouth and throat for wounds or abscesses (looks like a white pimple or growth). These are rare but can happen if they bite down on a bone fragment incorrectly. See the link below for two pictures of what mouth / throat abscesses look like:www.ferretsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=27965I know we have some pics on our forum as well but I couldn't locate them.panda still isn't showing signs of a winter coat... but i'm certain she and sable were both born in the spring... sable has a winter coat but panda just... wants to be a pain [image] One can be off by a couple of weeks. Socks started shedding two weeks ago, Wilma just started this week.also how would i get them to use the new eating den? i've been sticking their food from the tubes into it but they don't seem to get it [image] or maybe they don't like it? but they play in there lololol All you can really do if make it available (you know the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". The same applies to stash spots. ;D I'd suggest trying it without the T bend so that it is easier for them to carry stuff in there. Also it might be to new for them to realize it as a stash spot.i'm not too stressed about getting a freezer, my mum has a large tuckerbox freezer and has offered for me to use some space in it so might take her up on that offer if i can't find a little one for myself [image] Awesome. It will be a lot easier for you if you aren't scrambling for freezer space. Maybe buy in bulk when there are sales and store in that freezer and only use yours for portioned meals?scouring for a freezer so will let you know just wanted to thank you again for all the help you've given so far the girls appear to need about 7oz per day, i give them 5oz in the morning but they require a refill before bed usually... need to work out exact amounts [image] have a good day/night!
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Post by bitbyter on Apr 26, 2013 18:32:35 GMT -5
You should probably print this out or save it somewhere so that when you do your shopping for them you can easily do the math to figure out how much to buy.
The goals to aim for are (this assumes 2 different meals a day, I usually prepare 1 and use it all day):
8-9 meals (4-5 if feeding once per day) per week of consumable bone in meat (chicken wings, chicken thighs, cornish hens, quail, whole prey, chicken backs, pigeons, grouse, pheasant, rabbit, any small consumable bone in meats).
3-4 (2-3 if feeding once per day) meals per week of muscle meats (at least one of which NEEDS to be heart)
2 oz liver and 2 oz other organ per ferret per week (spleen, kidney, testicles, brain, etc). Organs are anything that secretes.
A MEAL is based on what they are eating in a day by weight. For example. If they are eating 7 oz a day (make sure they aren't stashing a lot of it) then you can either count that as 1 meal or break it into 2 x 3.5 oz meals.
A bare minimum of 3 proteins (the more the better) are needed to cover your ferret's basic nutritional needs.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 21:43:11 GMT -5
awesome! so what i do is make up a big batch for the whole week and serve them a bowlful out of the container when they are hungry/the bowl is empty (i'm one of those people who doesn't feel ok with letting it be empty, it has to have food in it at all times unless i can see/find stashed food) so how would that equate to their meals per week? i feed twice per day, i fill up in the morning and before bed to be sure they have a constant supply. they would not go more than 6 hours maximum without food. i have the proteins needed, duck beef lamb chicken, they get kidney and liver. they get wings and necks, and heart and giblets.... so i'm giving them everything... this is why i don't know about freezing for months in advance i'm worried their needs will change and they will either overdose or start lacking something. i feel more comfortable preparing for the fortnight ahead on pay day. i don't want to start freezing until i have more ferrets... but i will if required(?) so i was thinking if they need 8-9 meals per week of bone in meat, which they actually get a bit of every day, i was thinking maybe that equates to roughly 10oz per ferret? that was just a very rough guess off the top of my head. I'm going to be weighing more precisely to get their daily nom weight in the exact range... but my scales aren't working... i need to buy batteries so... yeah will start posting daily food weights thanks for the live cam link too! gorgeous!!! erm... i think that's everything for now... they only ate roughly 5.5oz yesterday, so meh lol enjoy your day/night xxx
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Post by Sherry on Apr 26, 2013 22:55:20 GMT -5
Sorry to but in again. But just to let you know Okami- "precise" and ferrets are pretty much diametrically opposite One day a single ferret might eat 6 oz, the next 3-4 oz. it's how they self regulate what they need. So when weighing out per meal, just work toward an average Also- a healthy raw fed ferret can easily go to 12- 24hrs with no food. Think about a weasel in the wild. If he can't catch his meal on a given day- he goes without! With no ill effects.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2013 1:47:18 GMT -5
ok awesome in that case i will just stick to the 5oz per meal average thanks!
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Post by bitbyter on Apr 27, 2013 15:37:36 GMT -5
Great, make sure you keep your thread up to date with what they are eating each day (bone in, boneless & organ, you can list type as well if you want). Also, post their individual weights once a week. So far you are doing well. We should have to graduated in no time if things keep going as they are. Keep reading all you can on the forum and don't hesitate to ask questions.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2013 20:20:42 GMT -5
okies i give them a bit of everything all in one go, i make a batch of organs, bone in and muscle meats along with pumpkin, eggshell powder (just a pinch), and egg yolk mixed together. i give them a bit of this every day and so far they are loving it!!! i do have a question; should i be concerned that my girls leave organs in the bowl sometimes? is this self regulating? should i leave it in the bowl or put it in the fridge and offer it again later??? so far i'm just putting it back in the fridge and mixing it into the container again. with an average of 5oz per meal is 13.5oz of bone in meats enough between them per week or does this need to be upped??? and is 6oz muscle meats enough too? attached a pic of the menu i am following between my two girls per week doesn't have pumpkin eggshell or yolk written on it lol
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Post by bitbyter on Apr 29, 2013 18:03:15 GMT -5
Sorry I haven't updated this thread in a while but I've been dealing with a sick fuzzie.okies i give them a bit of everything all in one go, i make a batch of organs, bone in and muscle meats along with pumpkin, eggshell powder (just a pinch), and egg yolk mixed together. i give them a bit of this every day and so far they are loving it!!! i do have a question; should i be concerned that my girls leave organs in the bowl sometimes? is this self regulating? should i leave it in the bowl or put it in the fridge and offer it again later??? I would offer it again later. It's important they get their required amount of organs. It might take some convincing though. This is why some people still feed soup once or twice a week as some ferrets are more willing to eat their organs when mixed in with other stuff in soup form. so far i'm just putting it back in the fridge and mixing it into the container again. That's what I'd do. with an average of 5oz per meal is 13.5oz of bone in meats enough between them per week or does this need to be upped??? and is 6oz muscle meats enough too? You really need to be able to figure this out on your own for when their intake changes. Basically you take the daily weight they are eating per day and multiply it be how many bone in meals and boneless meals you need per week (based on feeding once per day or twice per day). If you look back in the previous posts the number of meals of each is listed.attached a pic of the menu i am following between my two girls per week doesn't have pumpkin eggshell or yolk written on it lol What type of giblets (duck, chicken, turkey?). How are they doing on the 5 oz per day? Has everything been eaten by the time of the first meal on the next day or is there a bit leftover. I'd try to make sure there is a bit leftover as they are still kits and need all the food they can get.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 18:18:52 GMT -5
there is a bit leftover most of the time, when there is none left over it's because sable hoarded some of it under the bed but they eat that pretty quickly too i'm giving duck giblets. love and kisses for your sick fuzzie xxx
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