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Post by Heather on Jan 24, 2013 0:52:48 GMT -5
Name: Lauren
HF Forum Username: RinRose
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
FreyaMarie - met her on a non-ferret related forum and asked her questions about ferrets before deciding to get our own. She directed me here to make sure they get a proper diet. I also did my own research which directed me to the natural diets.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I know that the whole prey option is good for them, but neither my boyfriend nor myself would be able to do that. I guess we are saps. I want to feed natural/raw at night, as in the morning we are both rushed to get out the door to work. I keep seeing the term “commercial raw” and am not sure what exactly this is. If it is a quick substitute to use in the mornings that is safe and close to equally as good for them, that would be great. If suggested otherwise, I will gladly take the advice of the mentor. Also, we plan on making food in bulk so that we can thaw it out, if that is a better alternative to the commercial raw.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
It is the healthiest option for them, and will keep them happier as well! I want to do what is best for my loves and make sure they live long, healthy lives
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
I am fully willing and committed to this. I know it is what is right for them.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
We bought both Sydney and Scout (both females) on December 21, 2012. They were born on October 14, 2012. We have not had any problems come up with them and they seem to be in very good health. I am not sure if they are considered over or underweight.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
Currently switching from the Marshal Premium Diet (EEK!) to Wysong Epigen 90. I've only been giving them the Wysong for 2 days now and they gobble it up and leave the other crud behind!
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
No.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
These are our first ferrets, and we already want more. Scout is a bit more aggressive and bitey, more of a loner and stand-offish than Sydney is. We may need some assistance with her biting, if we are not able to fully calm it down to the level of Sydney’s. I feel she is making good progress, though. Both of them seemed to warm up to us quickly, though I don’t think they are fully at the trusting stage. My schedule is very routine – I leave the house by 7:15 every morning and am home by 6:30 – 6:45 in the evening. Most of our interaction with them will be in the evenings and on the weekends. The first week we had them I was on vacation from work, which worked out well as it gave them plenty of time to roam around and get acclimated. They have free range of the living room (large space) when we are home. They are only caged when we are not home, which during the work week may be long hours. We are trying to proof our kitchen right now, and our room, to give them more space to roam around.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
I am at a physical computer 5 days a week at work from 8:30am to 5:30pm (as you can tell from when I post on the forums). At the moment we do not have internet access at home, but I can access/send/receive E-mails on my phone (at night and on weekends), and can access the forum as well, but it takes a very long time to load. We should be able to get internet access soon, it just hasn’t been fully necessary so far, and we figured we’d spare the expense. I can always run to my parent's house if a computer is absolutely necessary. Otherwise, my email works perfectly fine on my phone.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Hurricane Katt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by katt on Jan 25, 2013 12:38:31 GMT -5
Location: Anchorage, Alaska Skpye name: hurricane.katt – I am on Skpye a lot so feel free to pop in and chat, or ask questions you want a quick answer to. I became a mentor because... I really like helping people (hence the whole wanting to be a doctor thing ) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, I got him when he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009, Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and he immediately ripped into it and started hissing to keep me away from his tasty prize! Neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first ferret and he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several foreign objects, and is constantly finding new trouble to get into (his nose has a rubber detector in it). He had to have an emergency blockage surgery, which (we believe) ended up being the catalyst that resulted in his IBD. He loves digging the carpet up, or more recently chewing it, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), he will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… He has IBD which we struggled to get control of (and finally succeeded!) with diet. He has recently had a second blockage surgery, and this week he will be getting his second Des implant for juvenile adrenal. He's been a handful, that's for sure! Kneai: male, Silber/Black Roan Mitt. I brought Kenai home towards the end of November 2010 when he was about 7-8 weeks old. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, franken prey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He finally started shedding some fur and a little winter weight and is slimming up, but he is still a clumsy critter. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I thought Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpleton. He has trouble finding the potty box a lot, and he doesn’t learn very fast. He also is much less physically adept at things – he has trouble climbing and getting into/onto/out of things. He is sloooowly figuring out how to control his floppy body, but he definitely has some developmental delays. But, we love him just the same. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! He is fed frankenprey, f/t roents, and live prey. Unfortunately, his diet is somewhat restricted because of his IBD, but we've finally got a bit of variety back in. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poops were HUGE and smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur. Type of Mentor: In Training! I feed frankenprey, raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and recently added (for treats and supplemental) freeze dried raw and commercially ground raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help with picking a good kibble… My Specialty: Trouble makers! I focus on full switches to raw – no more kibble! Read more: www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=switch&action=display&thread=176#ixzz2EFuV1GQh
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Post by katt on Jan 25, 2013 12:42:34 GMT -5
Let's start off with a detailed description of your current feeding schedule. What are you feeding, when, do you give meals or free feed, etc. Then I'll have an idea of where we need to start!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 10:32:08 GMT -5
OK I'm back!! Thanks for your patience over the weekend I did a lot of sleeping! To start with, I tried to weigh them both last night. Sydney is a deep sleeper so I was able to maneuver her on to the scale and she is 693 grams. However, when you wake Scout up, she's awake, so I wasn't able to get a good read on her. She is slightly heavier than Sydney, though. I am gonig to continue to try to get her to hold still so I can get the weight to you. I guess I don't really have a "schedule" for feeding them. I leave kibble out for them all day long (Wysong Epigen 90 Ferret) and just refill it when it's gone (i have one of those gravity feeders attached to their cage - they were running out so quickly with regular bowls that I switched to this to make sure they were getting plenty to eat. When we first brought them home (at 2 months old) they were eating the Marshal's stuff, and I quickly switched them to the Wysong, as that's what was recommended on here if you weren't ready for the raw switch yet. I have done a fair amount of reading on this forum and others so I feel I'm better prepared for the raw now. I just wanted some help to ensure that I do it the right way and don't terrorize their little systems I feel like they eat very well and their energy levels are pretty high. Scout is more laid back, but still active. Sydney takes flying leaps and is definitely the alpha. They are both in to exploring, but Scout more or less just follows Sydney's lead. If she's by herself, she's playing with a ball or sniffing our ears. The switch to Wysong was easy - took less than 2 days. At first their poops stunk to high heaven, which Sherry indicated was a de-tox side effect, but it is MUCH better now - it barely smells. But the poops ARE still large. They're consistent in color and form, but they're always mushy so it makes it interesting to clean up since we have carpet. I was not able to find hearts anywhere this weekend, but I do have chicken liver and pulverized egg shells on hand. Would I be able to start with these two ingredients? My friend told me yesterday of a supermarket to try for the feet and things like that, so I'm going to get over there this week and see if it's injected with anything and if I can feed it to them. This weekend I should DEFINITELY be able to get in to town and stock up on some things. I was just bound to the couch all weekend except for yesterday. I also had a question about beef. Can it be regular ground beef that you buy at the store (assuming it isn't injected and has no preservatives, etc)? I might need a little more hand holding through out this process than some people because these are my first ferrets and I just want to do things right, so if I ask a lot of tedious, seemingly silly questions, that's why. If I can find frozen whole prey, I think I *might* eventually be open to this. I cannot do the live prey thing though. Unless working with the frozen will help me work up to that. Any recommendations for commercial raw would be appreciated too, just in case we are not able to find all of the necessary meats 100% of the time. Is it ok to make in bulk, freeze, and then thaw out each meal? I read somewhere that it reduces the taurine (sp?) and that it really isn't that good for them, but I think this might be the only option we have with our schedules. I'll stop rambling now
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 12:10:43 GMT -5
Oh one more comment I wanted to throw in. As I previously stated, Scout has become extremely laid back. She has not been biting for a while now, except for the occasional collar bone nip, but backs off very quickly. She IS a bit more skiddish, but she's also more of a loner when she isn't following Sydney's lead. So I don't see her biting as an issue anymore. Sydney has taken quite the liking to the skin at the inside of the elbow (as in when you bend your arm and your skin kind of poofs up and it's soft and squishy). She REALLY goes after it, usually when you aren't paying attention, and it's painful because she latches on and starts what appears to be trying to rip it off (swishes head rapidly back and forth and pulls hard). None of the usual tactics to stop biting have worked on this. If you or anyone you know might have an idea of how to stop this behavior, PLEAAASE let me know. She's completely lovable other than that little habit. It was especially painful this weekend after having IVs and blood drawn little booger.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 17:05:25 GMT -5
Don't know if this helps but it's the best picture i've been able to get of Sydney... Scout is impossible to get a picture of!! Camera shy.
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Post by katt on Jan 29, 2013 5:23:54 GMT -5
First off do NOT be sorry about asking a lot of questions. That's what I'm here for! The only stupid or annoying question is one that wasn't asked! As for the nipping. I have dealt with biters before. These two methods (The Bite Hold, and Bonding Massages) combined made a HUGE difference, especially when combined. The key thing is that you HAVE to be consistent with whatever method you choose. Pick one and stick with it for at Least 2-4 months. And you must always react the same exact way - you need to make sure anyone else handling them knows to do so as well. The time out method is another very successful method. Bite Hold: www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=training&action=display&thread=3306Bonding Massages: www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=training&action=display&thread=2879For your question about heart. Yes, we can proceed without the heart for now. If you are unable to find heart though you will need to add a taurine supplement. I would recommend having some one hand anyways. Like you said freezing does degrade taurine content, so even with hearts on hand supplementing does not hurt, and then if you are ever short on hearts you know you aren't shorting them on taurine! In regards to buying in bulk, that is absolutely okay! It's what most people do. In the beginning of the switch it can be a bit harder, because you'll be going through a lot of different meats, new meats, and a Lot of meat as they scarf down their new nutritious food all while making changes to get their menu straightened out. What I usually do is buy in bulk, in all of the correct proportions and variety that I need and prepare it all at once. I cope everything up, divide it all out into sandwich sized ziplcok bags, and then store it in the freezer. Then all I have to do is thaw a bag out (or not!) and toss it into their cage. I feed them frozen meat fairly frequently. It is good for them to get variety not only of their food, but how it is presented. (i.e. some warm, some frozen, some thawed, some ground, some soup, some bones, some chunks....) It is mentally stimulating for them. I find the frozen meat is exciting to have sometimes too bc they get to gnaw on it - it's a toy and food all in one! They LOVE mouse-cicles. Koda goes nuts over a frozen mouse. Ground beef is absolutely fine. So let's start out! First, you will need to make a batch of soup. I suggest using warm water in the soup as it will make it more enticing. Your ferrets are still young enough that the switch should go rather quickly. The younger they are, the faster they tend to switch (though of course there are always exceptions haha). Start out with making a batch of raw soup, make it on the thin side but not watery - a little thinner than pudding. I would suggest trying it without any kibble at first. Put some on your finger and let them lick it off. It may help to hold them in your lap and scruff them while holding your finger in front of them. They may lick it willingly, or you may have to scruff them until they yawn and dab a little on their tongues. The thing is to (without stressing them of course) just get them to taste it. If they will lick it off of your finger willingly after getting a taste, spoon feed them. If they are still eager, let them eat it out of the bowl. If they are hesitant, you can do a few different things. One is to soak some kibble in warm water (to soften if for your blender lol) and blend it into the soup until you reach a level of kibble content that they will willingly eat the soup. (Add a little, scruff and stuff, add some more, try again, etc until they will eat it - even if it ends up being mostly kibble lol). You can also pour the soup (start with small amounts and work up) over their kibble like gravy (I suggest mixing it a little so it is harder to eat around the soup ). OR you can do both of the above. Play around with it a bit and see how they take to it. Let me know how they do and please don't hesitate to ask questions!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 10:03:11 GMT -5
OK so here comes the tedious part with me What kind of measurements are we talking about here? Do I put the livers through the meat grinder and then add the water? Told you I'm a newb LOL! I don't do much human cooking at all, so all of this is kind of foreign to me. As far as measurements go, if there is some kind of chart or something or a link to a webpage I can just print that out. Also, do you have a suggestion as far as a brand of taurine supplement? And what size measurement of that would you add? (i've been surfing through switching threads but haven't come across much info). How much should I be feeding each one? Just keep feeding until they're full? It's nice to know I can feed frozen!!! I was wondering about that! Just make sure all the meet isn't injected/marinated/etc, correct? As far as the duck/chicken feet go, is that something to work up to? I'm tempted to go buy some and toss one in there and see what they do with it haha! But i don't want to overwhelm them or stress them out. Those can be fed frozen as well? And to continue with the game of 20 questions lol - I know you live in Alaska, but what type of places can you find frozen mice at? I'm starting to become more and more open to it. I just can't do the live prey. I would cry and lose sleep LOL! And I've also noticed people saying that they feed raw eggs sometimes - do you just crack it open and put it on a plate/on your finger and see if they eat it? Should they not eat a certain part of it (white/yolk)? can you "scramble" it? (not cook it, just stir it up). Thanks for your patience Like I said, I just want to do this right. I feel like they are going to take pretty well to it. They aren't much for sitting in our laps at this point since they are so little, but if we put water on our fingers and stuff like that, they come right up and investigate. So I'm hoping this will be a simple process thanks again!! The livers are still frozen so I'll see if I can get this soup thing going tonight or tomorrow - ASAP. (My fault for running late this morning and forgetting to take them out of the freezer). I'm still excited! thank you thank you thank you!
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Post by katt on Jan 29, 2013 16:03:22 GMT -5
OK so here comes the tedious part with me What kind of measurements are we talking about here? Do I put the livers through the meat grinder and then add the water? Told you I'm a newb LOL! I don't do much human cooking at all, so all of this is kind of foreign to me. As far as measurements go, if there is some kind of chart or something or a link to a webpage I can just print that out. Sizing: www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=switch&action=display&thread=4341Menu for soup I would just suggest putting it all into the blender. A meat grinder won't turn it into soup to my knowledge. Put the above ingredients in with some warm water. There isn't really a measurement for the water, you just have to start small and keep adding it until your soup reaches the consistency that you desire. Also, do you have a suggestion as far as a brand of taurine supplement? And what size measurement of that would you add? (i've been surfing through switching threads but haven't come across much info). I'll check with Jackie, I know she keeps a supplement on hand. I never have trouble getting hearts, and I have access to pork brains (super high in taurine) so I've never bothered with getting a supplement. I'll let you know what she says RE brand and amount. How much should I be feeding each one? Just keep feeding until they're full? Feed them as much as they will eat! At the beginning of the switch it will seem like a LOT, but as their bodies catch up on the nutrients and proteins they need, and as they leave their kit stage of life they will slow down. They should have food available in their cage at all times. Right now if that is kibble that's fine, but if they will eat the soup you can leave a bowl of that available. It's nice to know I can feed frozen!!! I was wondering about that! Just make sure all the meet isn't injected/marinated/etc, correct? Correct! Any meat fit for human consumption is okay as long as it is NO processed, seasoned, marinated, injected with saline, preserved, etc. Organic is best, but not necessary. As far as the duck/chicken feet go, is that something to work up to? I'm tempted to go buy some and toss one in there and see what they do with it haha! But i don't want to overwhelm them or stress them out. Those can be fed frozen as well?Yes yes and yes! Yes they will probably have to work up for it but please DO give it a try! As young as they are they might just go right for it! You are always welcome and encouraged to try jumping ahead. If they will eat a chunk of chicken, we can skip the soup step entirely (though they still need to learn how to eat soup so they recognize it as food in case they ever get sick). You can always try to give them bits and pieces of stuff before you mix it into the soup, or if you are making dinner for yourself cut a sliver or two off and offer it. Experimentation is encouraged! And yes, the feet can be frozen. Feet are a great source of bone btw. And to continue with the game of 20 questions lol - I know you live in Alaska, but what type of places can you find frozen mice at? I'm starting to become more and more open to it. I just can't do the live prey. I would cry and lose sleep LOL! Where are you located again? I get mine from a whole prey provider in town, she runs a small reptile rescue and raises whole prey in addition to ordering in bulk from whole prey retailers, which she sells. I don't have a deep freezer so I can't buy in bulk fro ma feeder supplier or I would. Here is a board dedicated to whole prey providers. www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rawwholepreyprovRodentPro and HareToday are the two most popular. Both have very good reputations. It seems spendy because you really have to order in bulk, and shipping is a lot, but when you add in the shipping and divide up the cost per mouse/prey item, it actually ends up being very reasonable! I also raise my own mice. I stopped for a while because I got tired of cleaning out cages, but I am starting back up with a smaller breeding group. [You CAN do this without doing live feeding, you can do homemade CO2 chambers or cervical dislocation.] It's certainly not for everyone though. Cooked egg is fine, but it's not necessary to cook it. Whole egg is a GREAT source of nutrients. You can feed the shell too. (where powdered egg shell comes from... haha). Feed the whole egg. You can mix it into their kibble, add it to their soup, break it onto a plate, give it to them whole so they have to figure out how to crack it, pour it over their meats...any way you want to feed it! You may need to work with them to convince them it's food at first though. Scruff n Stuff with some on your finger, mix in in their soup or kibble, etc. See what gets them interested! Also, don't feed egg more than a few times a week. It will make their poops runny, and it has biotin which is bad if they get too much (but fine in small amounts). I'd say no more than 1-2 times a week for the eggs. You might check with someone who feeds them more often though, mine never liked eggs. Thanks for your patience Like I said, I just want to do this right. I feel like they are going to take pretty well to it. That's what I'm here for! And I want to make sure that you do it just right too! That's the whole reason we started the mentoring program in the first place. They aren't much for sitting in our laps at this point since they are so little, but if we put water on our fingers and stuff like that, they come right up and investigate. So I'm hoping this will be a simple process thanks again!! The livers are still frozen so I'll see if I can get this soup thing going tonight or tomorrow - ASAP. (My fault for running late this morning and forgetting to take them out of the freezer). I'm still excited! thank you thank you thank you!Put the liver in the sink or a bowl filled with cool to room-temp water. Change the water out when it gets cold. It will thaw MUCH faster this way. Also, it does not need to be entirely thawed to blend it. Keep me posted!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 16:38:37 GMT -5
OK good I already had those 2 sources for "measurements" printed out and stuck on the fridge!! I just didn't know if you would say something different!
Thank you for all of the suggestions and answers to my questions/curiosities. I'll see if I can get the liver thawed enough tonight to make a little soupie with it and the eggshell, and also try to see if they'll go after some little slivers. Might even try my luck with a taste of egg too haha! No I'll keep it limited and try different things on different days. I will let you know tomorrow how it goes!
Oh and I am in the Houston area and will check out the whole prey link you provided!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 10:21:21 GMT -5
OOOOOK. That did not go as I hoped it would haha!! I just mixed water and liver together with some eggshell. They wouldn't take it off of my finger, but Scout was VERY INTERESTED in getting in to the Tupperware bowl I had a little in. I tried to dab some on top of their noses so they would lick it off when they wouldn't take it from my finger. They did that and whipped their heads around like "OHHH THE AGONY!!!" But then Scout came back and continued investigating. SO I dipped the tip of a spoon in it and kind of put it on her lips and she licked it off again, that time without the reaction. I managed to do that a few more times before she ran and hid. Sydney, on the other hand, wants NO part of it. I tried the scruff n stuff and she wouldn't even yawn like she usually does when we scruff her. I stopped and played with them for a little while so they wouldn't think I was Big Evil Mama. I waited until they went to their kibble (so I'd know for sure they were hungry) and started again with the same reactions. I finally resorted to putting a small bowl of kibble covered in the soup, as you suggested all mixed up, and left it in their cage in hopes that they will munch on it. They hadn't touched it this morning, but I left it in there just in case (I figured it could be left in there for about 24 hours). **I left their normal kibble in there as well so they do actually have something to eat if they pass up the soup kibble** I'm going to try again tonight, as I made a large batch, but I'd also like to try to whip something different up. Oh also before the soup, I cut tiny pieces of a liver off and tried to get them to eat it that way and they wanted no part of that either. I went to the market last night, and was not able to find hearts or duck/chicken feet, but did pick up the following (I may have been a little over zealous and getting ahead of myself, but I figured if nothing else some of this could be chopped up and blended in to soup): lamb (it was just labeled "lamb for soup" but it's cut in to cubes) pig feet beef kidney beef liver chicken wing turkey necks Actually here's a picture: They did not have any other kinds of liver/kidneys. They had cow tongue but I had a hard time making myself pick that up LOL. I'm going to try some Asian markets further in to town this weekend and see if I can find hearts anywhere. I spoke with the butcher at the market last night and asked if they ever have hearts and he said they do but it's usually mixed in with the chicken gizzards, and they were out of those last night. I have tons of the chicken liver soup left over - would it be possible to throw it back in teh blender with pieces of the other meats I bought to add some variety? Like maybe some of the beef kidney, or the lamb? Did I even buy the right stuff haha! on a side note I realized I said meat grinder yesterday - I meant BLENDER as you corrected me hahaha... brain fart.
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Post by katt on Jan 31, 2013 1:04:44 GMT -5
I seem to be having problems with my internet, so if you see one of the other mentors pop in it's because I can't get on the forum. Just a heads up.
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Post by katt on Jan 31, 2013 1:43:45 GMT -5
Okay...so as for their reactions... I'm not at all surprised! The soup should bee 10% liver, not all liver. Read the menu again. 8oz chicken(or other meat) One chicken liver(or 2oz other liver) 2 chicken hearts(or 1oz other heart) 1/2 tsp eggshell powder The soup is primarily chicken. Boneless, skinless breast is the easiest to work with. Pork works well too. I would save the lamb for later simply because not all ferrets like it so it's not a good starting meat. It is a GREAT meat to have on the menu and I highly recommend that everyone familiarize their ferrets with lamb as a food option because it is a very gentle meat. If you ever have problems with GI upset, allergies, IBD, etc, lamb is the best thing you can feed. BUT some ferrets seem to have an aversion to it (Koda used to eat it fine, then one day decided he didn't like it and hasn't touched it since unless it's in freeze dried form lol). Chicken is a very bland flavored meat, so it's generally the best one to start with. Pork is good too though, I usually use pork as my second meat after they eat chicken. Organs are VERY strong flavored. Many ferrets who are eating whole muscle meats, will still be very resistant to eating organs. Organs is one of those things that we typically don't introduce until later in the switch when they have already learned to recognize meat as food. The reason it is in the soup is so that while we are in the process of switching, they don't have an unbalanced diet. People would often drop out of switches when they were just feeding their ferrets pureed chicken so we had to make things more standardized so that at least if someone drops out at the soupie stage, their ferret is getting the bare minimum nutrients. It is also good for ferrets who are particularly stubborn and take a long time to switch over - keeps them from being on an unbalanced diet over a long period of time. SO with that in mind...it's time to try again. Either using the pork that you have, or if you can get to the store and make some chicken, you need a new batch of soupies! Feel free to pre-soak some kibble in warm water and add that to the soup too. In fact if you get this tonight before you have time to make a new soup batch, I would suggest seeing if they will eat kibble soup (soak kibble in warm water until it's soft, mix or blend it ti soup consistency). If they will, let them eat that until you can make the new soup batch. That will at least let them get accustomed to eating the soup-textured food. Then even if they don't like the new raw soup right off the bat, you can mix a little into the kibble soup and gradually increase it. Let me know if this all makes sense and if you have any questions. And let me know how they like the new soup batch. It should be mostly pureed chicken.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2013 9:52:34 GMT -5
Well I feel dumb now haha!! All I had when I MADE the soup was the liver so I just tossed a little in with the water. I didn't stick a whole batch of livers in there haha but what you said makes perfect sense. I'll dig through the freezer tonight and find some chicken breasts or something (I always have a stock of those since I eat chicken like crazy). I think the only pork I got was the feet. So if I can chop chunks of the meat off of those and toss it in, I'll do that as well. I didn't get this message until this morning and last night I got home really late so I didn't get to do any more soupie I am doing it again tonight though. THey didn't touch the kibble that I'd poured the liver stuff over so I tossed it. I know that they will eat soup-textured kibble because thats' what they started out on when we first brought them home. I weaned them off of it but I'm sure they'll gobble it up if I do it again so I'll use that as a starting point and make a small batch of soup to add to it. I think I just got a little over excited and over determined the other night haha! But I'll find some chicken to add to it and if I can't find any in the freezer (which would be odd) I'll run to the store. And we are DEFINITELY getting in to town this weekend to hunt down some hearts! And no I won't be dropping out at the soupie stage haha! I'm bound and determined regardless of how long it takes I'll let you know tonight or in the morning how it goes (i finally found the app for the forum - I'm a little slow with the whole app thing). Thanks! Editing to ask - could I pull some of the meat off the chicken wings and throw it in?
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Post by katt on Feb 1, 2013 4:26:11 GMT -5
Yes you could pull meat off of the chicken wings, but you won't get very much meat from them.The soup should be mostly chicken muscle meat with just a little liver and heart in it. You can just freeze the meats that you have for now - they will definitely get eaten. Any muscle meat is fine, you can even do a mix if that's what you have on hand (i.e. the meat from the wings plus what you can chop off of the feet). I'm just not sure its worth the energy and time to cut the meat off of those because you won't get much meat. Better to save them for later on when they are ready to munch on the bigger and bonier items. That's entirely up to you though! Let me know what you do and how it goes!
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