Cori G.'s Switching Thread/Heather

[Heather]

Name: Cori G.
HF Forum Username: CG2789

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I have read about natural diets for ferrets on various websites.

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I would like to fully switch my ferrets to a Frankenprey diet with meats that I can buy from the grocery store while eliminating kibble from their diets. I would be interested in occasionally feeding frozen-thawed Whole Prey eventually if it is possible. I may also be interested in feeding Freeze-Dried Raw.


3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? For the health benefits. I have read awful things about how pet food is made and want to do what is best for my ferrets.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
Yes, I am willing and able to make the commitment.

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
I have 3 females and 1 male. The females are Nessie, Panda and Wonton, and the male is Willie. I do not know the exact ages of the females but they range from 3-4 years old with Nessie being the oldest. Willie's DOB is 1/23/2011 so he is now 2 years old. No health problems that I know about. I do not believe any of them are underweight or overweight. I have had Nessie since around November 2008 when she was just a kit. Wonton was added shortly after, maybe around June 2009, and was also a kit. Panda joined us in late 2009 and I am unsure as to what her age was at the time. I have had Willie since April 2011 and adopted him as a kit.

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
They have been eating a mix of Zupreem Grain-Free Diet and 8 in 1 Ultimate Ferret Crunchy Diet for most of their lives other than eating Marshall Diet when we first brought them home from the pet store. I looked at this forum before posting and found the Raw Soup for switching recipe, but instead, I boiled all of the meat and organs before putting it in the food processor. They are currently eating the cooked chicken soup (same recipe posted here) with added pumpkin and Linatone cut with EVOO. All 4 of them love it and have been eating this about 2x per day for the last couple weeks in addition to their kibble. However, they have all seemed to stop eating the kibble now except for Wonton, she is the pickiest eater of them all. Additionally, everyone except for Wonton eats raw egg maybe once a month. Everyone eats N-Bones except for Wonton. I have gotten both Nessie and Panda to eat Wysong Pheasant Dream Treats that have been rehydrated with warm water. I do not think that they are getting enough variety in their diet right now. I need advice for introducing them to raw meat and how to provide them with a more balanced diet.

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
Yes, I have pretty much covered that information in the above answer to number 6. Panda is by far the most willing to try new food so I don't feel like she will be as much trouble to switch. The others won't try new food so willingly so I have had to pretty much hold them down and rub the food onto their gums to make them taste it. Willie and Nessie will usually start to eat the new food if they've decided it is good, but Wonton shows hardly any interest and goes back in the cage to eat her kibble. I have also ordered the FDR Sample Pack from Casey's Hidden Pantry a few months ago. No one really liked any of the FDR except for the Dream Treats, so most of it I ended up feeding to the cats.

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
Can't think of anything right now! But I am very committed to switching them to a balanced, raw diet and can't wait to get started.


9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? I have internet access at all times.


10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor (Heather) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[Heather]

Hi
I'm Heather, and we're going to be working together for the next little while trying to convince your furbabies to change to an even healthier diet
I've been feeding a raw/natural diet for a little over 15 yrs. I have a small private rescue/sanctuary, just outside of Toronto, Canada where all ferrets turned into me are switched immediately over to a raw diet that consists of ground raw/whole meats or frankenprey/ and prey diet. At present every ferret eats this full range of diets. I don't keep kibbles in the house, if I can possibly avoid it. Too many little kibble addicts . All my furbabies are free roaming and have access to outdoor play areas that they can access at will. At present there are 13 little fuzzbutts who call this their permanent home. The rescues range in ages of about 2 yrs old Minion to Odin, who is 8 or 9 yrs, a late alter that was turned in 5 yrs ago intact. I also purchased and imported 4 ferrets this year from the UK who are also raw fed. They will become the base for my breeding stock. I would like to say my most difficult switch was a little senior who was turned in at 9 yrs of age (she by the way has been my biggest raw switch challenge, until recently, which had me at times wondering why I was doing this to her) She eventually was completely switched and putting on a beautiful dark black coat, teeth that were nicely cleaned up, and she actually has a lot of fun investigating the house (she used to do nothing but sleep when she first was turned in). She has made me aware that every ferret no matter how old, can get a new lease on life by eating a species appropriate diet. She eventually passed on at 11 yrs of age to complete organ failure....old age. Raw soupy is my favourite switching tool and one that I've had the most success with. You can try to get them to eat a raw soup immediately. You will need a blender/food processor, and the following raw items:

8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat)
1/2 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder)
1 raw chicken heart
1/2 raw chicken liver
Water or broth(use more to make it soupier, less to make it thicker)
I've also started adding raw goat milk, or kefir about 1 tbsp to this mixture, they seem to like it.
Blend ingredients together. Some prefer it at room temp. Try putting a dollop of "soup" onto your ferret's nose and they probably will lick it off. I use my finger. Sometimes this takes a little bit trying to convince them that you're not trying to poison them. I find within a very short time they're licking this off my finger. When I see that they're willing to eat freely off my finger then I use a small spoon to try and get them to eat from that. Try to get them eating the soupy on their own. It might pique their interest.

Most ferrets will willingly eat the food once they actually TASTE it, so the only struggle you *should* encounter is them not wanting to taste it. Don't be surprised if your furbabies' initial reaction is to gag, spit and look at you like, what are you trying to poison me with but don't let them get away with it The hardest part is to insist and be consistent. Please also be aware that after years of kibbles they aren't aware that what you're offering them is indeed food. Once they willingly eat from your finger and spoon, work to try and get them eating this out of a dish or plate.

Each time you make your soupy, use a little less water to make it thicker/chunkier. Replace soup with fresh soup every 4-6 hours. You can make a large batch if you like and freeze into ice cubes or cupcake trays. Then you just thaw a portion and serve. OR you can put a frozen "cube" into their bowl and let it slowly thaw.

This is a good way to slowly ease them into wet foods. I use this method to switch all my furbabies and I've personally switched over 30 ferrets of my own in the last few years.
I will let you read through and if you have any questions please ask.

Good luck on your journey
ciao

[Deleted]

Hi Heather! I look forward to improving my ferrets' diet with your help!

I was unsure about feeding them raw at first, so I did feed them some cooked chicken soup using the recipe above. They were eating that for about 2 weeks, until yesterday, when I whipped up a batch of raw soup. I used the same portions suggested in the above recipe, except I used turkey thighs, beef liver, and beef heart instead of chicken. I figured I should change it up for them since they've been eating only chicken. All 4 of them have gotten a taste for the raw soup that I made. Willie and Panda took to it immediately, while Nessie and Wonton are a little bit hesitant to eat it unless I am feeding it to them on the tip of my finger.

I have been adding a little heated up pumpkin and warm water to their raw soup, as well as EVOO and Linatone. I will definitely start adding less water to it now that you have suggested that. Also, glad that you suggested the cupcake pan because I would like to make bigger portions since I'm feeding 4 ferrets.

One of my main concerns is about what I should do with the bones from the meat. When I made the raw soup, I ended up throwing away the bones that were in the turkey thigh because I am not sure what I should be doing with them and didn't want to put them through the food processor.

Thanks!

Cori

[Heather]

Hi Cori
No, you definitely don't want to put the bones through the blender or food processor...it makes a horrible noise, belches smoke and then dies
You can take a hammer to the bones and see if your guys will eat them. At the moment chances are they won't....but it's always worth a try. Some will try and eat the marrow....it's always worth trying. At the moment you will probably just pitch the bones (never used cooked) especially weight bearing bones. It's rare that a ferret will even bother with turkey leg bones. Some, especially the very young will eat the knuckles at the end but very few actually eat the long bone. As long as the bones aren't cooked you can offer them....they won't harm them and are better for them than the egg shells. Wings are the customary bones that they're started with.
If you don't like pitching the bones you can cook them up and make some bone soup, either for yourself or to freeze and keep on supply for a time when they're sick or off their food
ciao

[Deleted]

Ok, I will just keep continue offering raw soup with less and less water for now. I don't mind throwing out the bones. I have a hard time picturing any of them eating bones, really. The reason I was asking about the bones is because I've seen a basic Frankenprey menu and it says that they should be fed "edible bone" throughout the week. I may be getting ahead of myself, but I was curious as to what exactly is meant by edible bones. Is it any bone that has little to no meat on it, or like a whole chicken wing with all the meat on it? At this point in time, should I be giving them as much raw soup as they will eat, or is there a limit?

Thanks

[Heather]

Ferrets have a higher bone need ratio than most animals...because of their very high metabolism. Edible bones is the bone that is offered with some meat attached. Chicken wings is the one that most people think of. Quail, rabbit, pork ribblets are all bones that can be consumed by ferrets. Cut up chicken backs, necks are another bone meal. Some ferrets, mostly younger ones will even consume turkey necks. Ferrets have to have bones in their diet, they require them like they require water....it's a must. We can substitute for a bit (bonemeal and ground eggshell) but in the long run, they will become very sick if these nutrients are not met.
ciao

[Deleted]

I will be running out of pureed raw turkey soup within the next few days. Should my next step be making soup with small chunks of meat in it rather than all pureed? I tried putting a raw chicken wing in front of them today but no one was really interested. Then I pulled some of the meat off of the chicken wing and added it to their raw soup and they ate it. Any advice for getting them to try a whole piece of meat with bone in? Also, how often can I feed them raw egg? They all like that.

Thanks!

[Heather]

If they're eating their soupy very well, then add some chunks to it and see how it goes over. As far as getting them to eat wings there are a couple ways. You can pound them up with a hammer or a cleaver and then cut them up into more manageable chunks. You can cut deep slices into the meat leaving chunks hanging on it and offer it that way or you can cut them up into small chunks.
You shouldn't offer raw egg more than 3 times a week....they're going to suffer icky poos anyway (unless you powder some egg shell and offer that with the eggs (about 1/4 to 1/2 tsp) If you offer egg more often then you're going to run into biotin issues.
ciao

[Deleted]

Hi, I am going to make a new batch of soup using

16oz chicken thighs
Beef Heart
Pork Liver
1 tsp eggshell powder

Do you know how much heart and liver should be added? I was trying to google how much a chicken heart and liver weighs, but haven't had much luck..

Thank you so much for all of your help so far!

[Heather]

Sherry has it broken down in ounces....I will see if I can find out for you. I've never actually had to break it down .... I make my batches of 10 to 15 lbs at a shot.
ciao

[Heather]

Seemingly the average chicken liver weighs 2 oz
ciao

[Deleted]

Everyone is still doing well on their soupies. I tried offering a chicken wing about a week ago and they wouldn't have anything to do with it. It is a slow transition, but worth it!

[Heather]

You're seeing progress? Have you tried smashing the wing up and cutting into smaller pieces?
Do you have a weight on your guys that you can post? Taking weekly weigh in's though time consuming is really a necessary part of making a healthy transition. This way we can flag who's not doing well. This works especially well, when dealing with multiple ferret switches. This identifies any issues often before you're aware that they're occurring and can also make it easier to see who's eating enough. Please remember to book in regularly (daily preferred but at least every couple of days)
Thank you
ciao

[Deleted]

1. Name: Willie
Weight: 2lbs, 10oz


2. Name: Wonton
Weight: 1lb, 9oz


3. Name: Panda
Weight: 2lbs, 1oz


4. Name: Nessie
Weight: 1lb, 10oz

These are their weights as of yesterday after eating. All stools have looked a bit wet and brown from the raw, boneless meat. Willie and Panda have been going to town on the raw food on their own. I have to spoon feed Nessie and Wonton, and they each eat roughly 2 heaping tablespoons of raw soup, 2 times per day. I will start trying to measure out their food into individual bowls so that I can see how much they eat. The menu hasn't changed much other than switching between using turkey thighs and chicken thighs, as well as an alternation between pork liver, beef liver, chicken liver, beef heart, and chicken hearts. I have been making a new batch every 3-5 days and it has become slightly more chunky with less water each time. When I put the ferrets in the cage for the night, I am still giving them kibble to hold them over until the next raw meal. I'm not sure who is eating the kibble, but I suspect that it is only Wonton, Nessie, and Panda who eat it the most. They have all had higher energy levels lately, especially since I have been letting them have occasional access to "restricted" areas of the house. They have been having a lot of fun! I will try to post these updates more often as well as some body shape photos. I forgot that I was supposed to fill these out. Will also try smashing the chicken wing next time!

[Heather]

Sounds like things are doing well. Are you measuring the amount of kibbles when you put it in the bowl for them at night? or are you feeding kibbles between meals? Measuring might give you an idea as to how much is actually being consumed. One thing to consider is to remove the kibbles during the day, especially on days where you are at home and can add another feeding. The more times you do without kibbles the better they will switch. The higher energy could be a number of things but the change in diet is very possibly one. It is often reported that ferret activity levels become much higher on their natural diets
ciao