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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 13:31:24 GMT -5
Well some of you may be aware of Meeko's health problems, I'm awaiting a date for them to do the Urinary analysis...but he's not doing well...he still walks around and eats and poops just his itching, his poor itching....he has small scabs and what not ALL over him, he just will not stop itching, he is on kitten revolution as per the vets request but he hasn't ever had any fleas or ticks or any mites as far as I can see and am aware of...
As we've discussed in past threads is the obvious chance of Adrenal considering most ALL of his symptoms point to that...except his bowels, so when I go back do I just pretty much freaking FORCE the issue of I want to start a treatment ASAP for him? Because she just looked at his itching and said mites.....so they treated and well he still is scratching himself literally away...and I can't stand watching... What's the next step? He is eating salmon and EVOO in his soupy...
Thank you everyone, just so tough especially when the vets. are kinda stumped and not helping.,...all 3 of them...
Edit: The vet and I have discussed Lupron treatment, reason she didn't jump right on it and treat him is as I've mentioned in 'her' eyes, adrenal certainly kills, but meeko also has some inside issues, such as his bowels...he poops literally 50+ times a day in small little piles of ranging sizes and consistencys and colors, literally ALL types... so she wanted to address that first before doing adrenal treatment...so again my question being should I force the issue or what? I just can't stand to see him itching what little bit of meat he has on his bones away... Thank you again~
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2013 16:41:26 GMT -5
Well there is definitely a possibility of IBD from what you have said in this and other posts. IBD is often correlated with adrenal and many people find that when they begin treating for adrenal, the ferret's IBD improves significantly. This was the case with my ferret Koda. He had pretty bad IBD for a year. We got it pretty well under control through diet, but the biggest difference came when we started treating him for adrenal. Now you would almost never know he has IBD. I would highly recommend doing a 3 month trial of Lupron. Please be aware though that it MUST be at LEAST 3 months. Anything less is more harmful than helpful as it will cause a rebound hormone surge. Also be aware that Lupron (and Des) takes 1-3 months to start showing effects. Another reason that it is important to compete the full 3 month minimum. If he responds well to Lupron, then I would highly suggest getting him on Des. It's much more affordable and equally if not more effective.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 2, 2013 16:54:24 GMT -5
I agree. And if by chance it's NOT adrenal, the lupron won't hurt him anyway. In the interim maybe some warm water soaks with oatmeal to help soothe his skin. Out of curiosity- has the vet ever tried him with a shot of benadryl? I'm really thinking adrenal, but if by chance it is allergy related that shot should ease the itching a lot.
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Post by Heather on Feb 2, 2013 16:55:41 GMT -5
I'm with Katt. I've also seen the same results in treating adrenal and finding an almost cure for the IBD. Personally, because I'm a nasty old lady....I would push hard for the adrenal treatment....it can do no harm and only do good if it is indeed adrenal. ciao
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2013 17:57:49 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 18:16:51 GMT -5
Huh, I gotcha....so pretty much push hard for a lupron trial? I also wanted to make sure that no harm would come of it if mis-diagnosed, so thank you very much Sherry, Also I'll def. be bringing up the benadryll question....and the oatmeal baths... you think that'll do good for him? He doesn't mind baths and we used to give monthly but read up and understood the consequences of it so we have stopped, as long as it will Help...I will do AAnything...
And Koda looks 100% healthier than meeko even when he had his IBD...Poor meeko is extremely underweight at a little over 1lb. and as I've said his itching doesn't help that cause as he now is scabby and taking fur out.
So Lupron, and possible baths... Thank you again all~
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2013 19:02:18 GMT -5
The before pictures were taken AFTER we had gotten his IBD mainly under control using diet. It was a year long struggle. The adrenal treatment alone made the difference that you see in the pictures I posted. As far as the itching goes, what laundry detergent do you use on the bedding? Make sure it is fragrance and essential oil free, and do not use any dryer sheets. Fragrances and EO's can irritate ferrets' skin (EOs are toxic). Also, I would continue giving him a regular oil supplement. This will help keep his skin and fur moisturized and hopefully reduce the itching a little while you try to get treatment. Salmon oil is great, or fish oil. I use a mix suggested by Mikey and have been very pleased with it: part salmon of fish oil, part extra virgin olive oil (EVO). part extra virgin coconut oil. Mikey uses 1:1:1 ratio of the oils I believe. I use slightly more salmon/fish oil than EVO, and slightly more EVO than coconut oil. EVO helps with gastric ulcers too, which are common with IBD ferrets. The fish and coconut oils both have really good fatty acids in them, and the coconut oil has a ton of antioxidants. You mentioned that he is on soup - what kind of soup? What's in it? You mentioned that he gets oil in his soup - is this a daily thing? That could be contributing to his pooping problems. I would limit it to 2-3 times a week for the oil.
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2013 19:03:11 GMT -5
Also, if you feed him anything other than soup, what do you feed. If kibble, what brand/type, and what are the main ingredients? Chicken allergies are fairly common in ferrets.
Do you have access to lamb meat or goat meat?
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Post by Sherry on Feb 2, 2013 19:03:58 GMT -5
Where the problem with baths comes in is when you use shampoo. That strips the oil and dried out the skin. A warm water soak with the oatmeal will help soothe his skin.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 20:14:04 GMT -5
Thank you both so much again~ truly..
Alright, he is getting oils in almost every soup, I do about a tsp. of each oil in the soup that's distributed amongst the 3. The soup is usually chicken heart x2, 8-10oz. chicken muscle and fat and some bone, pumpkin, eggshell, and the oils as above...and when it comes organ time I do a liver, trying to get kidneys as we speak...
I'm aware of a possible chicken alergen so I have some cornish hen and rabbit right now...also chicken, but I can't find any other non chicken organ meat... I think I found beef liver, that's acceptable I assume?
As far as laundry goes I do not believe so, the bed he is in is brand new and was washed in water and dryed...my detergent is a natural one as I cannot have anything for my job....
Well off to take a bath we go~
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Post by Sherry on Feb 2, 2013 20:40:28 GMT -5
The beef liver is fine
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2013 20:42:29 GMT -5
Rabbit would be a very good place to start. I had great luck with it with Koda (thought every IBD case is different), and it tends to be pretty gentle on the belly. Beef liver is fine. I like pork organs, I find that the Asian market around here carries them. If a non-chicken source of heart cannot be found, taurine supplements, while not ideal, can ensure that he is getting the taurine that he needs. Taurine supplements in addition to heart meat is often a good idea anyways as freezing degrades taurine. (Most thawed heart you get at the store has been frozen at come time - read the package label it usually says pre or previously frozen in small print somewhere). Also, if chicken is the culprit, I would imagine that even limiting it would be beneficial.
Cornish Game Hen (great bone source) is a poultry. Some ferrets have more generalized poultry allergies, though chicken specifically is the main culprit. You may experiment with your chicken sources too as often it isn't the meat species the causes the problem, but the diet that the prey was fed (grains, corn, GMO stuff, antibiotics, etc). For this reason I would start with the rabbit. Lamb is ideal if you can get it (though not all ferret like lamb) as it is typically considered a pretty hypoallergenic meat. Goat is very similar to lamb.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 21:50:34 GMT -5
Ok, so he got his bath, didn't seem to mind it as much as well, y'know... And as of tonight I'll be keeping him on rabbit and I'll have the gf run out and get some beef liver and try to find some lamb or goat, also I'm guessing I can try beef/pork products? Just any muscle meat group I'd assume and avoid ground.. so easy enough. Until I can get to the vet and attempt my demand of Lupron depot which I have no idea how successful I'll be.... And for the baths, just keep doing daily until I can get him on a stable diet and perscribed? Or would too much soaking be potentially bad? Again, thanks all...so much
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2013 23:02:34 GMT -5
IF you can, I would try to stick to one protein type for a while before trying a new one. Beef and pork are fine. Ideally though you would feed say ONLY rabbit (including the organs, which makes your case difficult right now) for several days to a few weeks. It can take up to a few weeks on a novel protein to detox from the allergen. I would stick with one protein if you can. This is called a food trial. You do one protein for a few weeks and see how it goes, then you carefully add in a new protein (say pork) and gradually increase the new protein in the diet. If that is handled well, you can try another one, etc. Keeping a record of everything is VERY helpful. Write down what he got to eat, how much he ate, whether he was more or less itchy, any behavior changes, what his poops looked like (taking pictures is helpful), and if there are any other notable things (i.e. had visitors over today and ferret was stressed). This becomes REALLY helpful.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 3, 2013 0:47:53 GMT -5
That diary really does make a difference! I kept on for Boris as well. That's how I discovered the only meat he could tolerate well was lamb. He could go up to 30% of elk or venison but that was it Boris was IBD as well.
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