How is such a stupid fuzz so smart?!

[moonfall]

My precious fox won't interact with Bode, who is equally precious.

And this is something that arguing with me on is a rather bad idea. I may be young but I have been around and interacted with animals since I was very small and got my first wild animal before I was 13, and have had animals around since I was born. I've been doing this a LONG time and I am very set on my opinion about exotics.

I've actually interacted with quite a few exotic owners (Sybil's message board) and even those who own bobcats. I know that they keep them in the house and that although there is a risk of course, as with any animal, they can be great pets as long as you learn to interact around them and what they need. A cat isn't going to be collared and bossed around, they own you more than the other way around and have teeth and claws and muscle meant to kill. Anything under a hundred pounds is a small risk, IMO. If it can fit your head in its jaws then you probably shouldn't be in a pen with it.

I have been around foxes. I know what they are like, each little nuance and twitch of their whiskers. They make sense to me and I get them in a way that I do not get other animals. I do understand my other pets fairly well but a fox...every time I have interacted with them it's like they project their thoughts into my head. I know them. They are familiar and they know me. I have walked up to a wild fox and had my hands licked- she took one look at someone else and was long gone.

I will have a fox someday or die trying. This is something I have been working toward for years and I will die sooner than give up on it.

[rachellori]

Where does your income come from right now for taking care of Thatcher and Bode?

[Heather]

I am sorry that you feel that way. You've shown that despite "claiming" to love the fox you show little respect for what it is or what it should be. If you truly "loved" this creature you would never wish it harm, to take away it's right to be what it is, what it is supposed to be. How can you claim to care for something when you're willing to take away the one thing that makes it what it is...it's freedom. You call it "exotic" which means you think of it as a possession a "pet" not as the wild creature it is. You claim that you've lived with these animals since a small child but you've learned nothing about what they are. To you they're just a possession. One does not need to possess to enjoy or to love. For 3 years I watched a she-fox raise her young on my property. Three batches of kits were born in a small depression under some roots at the corner of my property. I watched them play, learn to hunt, make mistakes. I laughed at their antics but never once did I want to put a collar on them, to take them away from that. You are willing to subject a fox kit, a creature that you claim you would die for, to the same tortures that a Marshal's kit is subjected to? or are you going to take a kit from a person who killed the mother so you can have the kits? Do think on this because I can think of better ways to love an animal.
ciao

[darlene]

I've watch a few Fatal Attraction shows lately and it's always the same.....People who want these "exotics" always claim they know what these animals think,they can read their body language,they're connected to them,blah,blah,blah! These people are selfish,because THEY want,an animal loses,and sanctuaries are left picking up the pieces.

I just can't believe I'm reading a thread about keeping wildlife as pets

[rachellori]

I'd also like to point out that saying "anything under 100 pounds is a small risk" is incorrect. You want to live in a house with a fox, a serval, a bobcat, and "over 100" prey animals and you think that's low risk?
Just take a minute and think about it. If you heard about a house like this on the news or online you'd be appalled by the animal hoarding situation and infuriated by the wild animals being kept in a house together.
Are you going to keep your cats and fox in cages when they're inside? Or are you expecting several normally solitary felines to peacefully cohabitate?
Just a few things to think about.

[unclejoe]

I was originally responding to the cage climbing, but...
I would never attempt to domesticate a wild fox with all those other critters in the house. Plus the fact that in our state it's estimated that 10% of foxes and raccoons are rabid. Is it even legal to possess one in your area?

www.bornfreeusa.org/b4a2_exotic_animals_summary.php

I have seen bobcats in the wild, and I can say that at 40-50 lb they are big, agile and fast enough to mess you up quick.
the one I saw killed by a car in front of me had 3 inch claws. I saw one take down a 100 lb deer. No thanks.

[laurel]

Darlene, that is exactly what was going thru my mind....that show, Fatal Attraction.
My two cents worth on this, aside from the idea of "owning" wild animals....let's say for the sake of argument, you become educated and become a wild life rehabilitator. You take in certain species of wild animal and do just that....rehabilitate them, the idea being so they can be released back into the wild. And just like in rescue, some animals ( or dogs in my case) are not able to be rehabbed enough to be able to be released. The money involved in dog rescue is quite high. I can't imagine what the costs would be to properly house and care for wild animals. Species appropriate diets, proper enclosures, vet care, proper, species appropriate stimulation, and so on. Never mind the huge amount of time it takes to do it right. No offense to any vet tech, but that salary does not provide for much and certainly not taking care of what you describe. Nor does wild life rehab.
I do know of that personally bc I had a baby squirrel once, who I was clueless about and contacted a wild life rehab person in my area to get some help with him. She instructed me on what to do and when to contact her again bc once his eyes were open and he got stronger, he thought I was a tree and oh my, that was a whole other ball game. So I contacted her again and she told me I could bring him to her bc she had another gal who did baby bunnies and squirrels. So I took him to her and got the tour and they eye opening expereince of what this kind of work entails. I did and occasionally, still do some work for her....just cleaning up and helping with general things around the barn and animal room in her house. It is tons of work and the costs are crazy. She is able to get some grant monies but still relies mostly on donations, of which help, but fortunately her husband makes a decent buck and they are able to stay afloat. She is licensed thru the state and has to jump thru hoops to keep her license. it is not easy, it is stressful and no doubt rewarding but waaayyy more involved than I had ever imagined.
Maybe you have a wild life rehab person nearby you who you could volunteer with. It is fun, even if you are just cleaning cages and stalls.( and since you have a clean thing, this might be something that would be a serious issue for you) Just hanging with Cindy gave me a whole new view and respect for what it takes to do it right. You could also get a better idea if this kind of work is for you and start to look at schools that will give you the education you would need to continue on with this kind of work.

[laurel]

I forgot one thing....keeping that baby squirrel alive was a full time job! He needed to eat , I think it was every 4 hours, but it may have been less. Round the clock, syringe fed. I had to take him to work with me. We rotated over night feedings and my one daughter would get up and feed him, then I would. Which makes me think it was less than 4 hours bc I remember being very sleep deprived. One tiny little squirrel was a full time job.
I can't imagine having what Cindy does, 3 owls, a couple deer, a handful of various other birds, a litter of baby skunks, etc. It changes obviously, but that is a boat load of work that doesn't leave room for a full time job to keep it all going.

Every one is put in some good points... I did want to add one thing to be considered.....


Ferrets are really REALLY good at escaping, you will not be able to keep them separated from these larger predators 24/7. Something *will* happen, especially with that many people and animals in the place(it's sounds like it will be quite the zoo!). You will not be able to prevent every chance.

SO, if you are really that dead set on owning a fox and that is your biggest goal... please consider rehoming Bode and Thatcher with a safer home. That way you won't have to deal with the horror of one beloved pet destroying another(or two). It is a HORRIBLE feeling.
Rehoming Thatcher and Bode would be the kindest thing you could do for them.

[[Another thought, you claim to have a lot of years experience with wild animals.... and starting at 13year old? If you're 17-18yrsold by your profile... then that's 4 years(5 if 18, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here). That's not even the lifespan of a fox.

That's a GREAT start, but that is not the years of experience I'd consider able to tackle such a balance safely. These folks here are looking out for the best interest for the animals involved and a lot of them have over a decade... and more... experience with animals. As difficult as it is to listen when you're head strong and know what's best for you.... keep an ear open. ]]

[sheila]

I live in a state whare MOST of these animals are illegal to keep because they are not ment as pets. in our state, they are not allowed due to their unpredictablity. pet stores and vets won't even allow them in their places if they know what they are (wolf dog is the only one around here). I know that you say that the other people will be in charge of their owne animals, but from experience, that is not how it ends up being. I'm sorry if I sound rude, but I really feel like you are unaware of the problems that these animals living together WILL eventually cause. not to mention the money. even with 4 incomes, the size house you would need, the amount of food for each animal, vet visits and home insurance.
then you have to realize that ALL these animals NEED a ton of excersize. the one MAJOR problem is not enough excersize. these are cats that are ment to travel much longer distances than the regular housecat. please do more research about each bread of animal and the pros and cons about keeping them AND keeping them in the same home.
lastly, most home owners insurances will drop you do to the liability issue.

[matty]

In regards to Thatcher's behavior, I will add that this is very typical behavior. Or at least, I know now that it is. Koda and Nissa were probably the most angelic ferrets that ever existed in terms of potty training and handling (Nissa was a HUGE biter, but that was her only flaw). When we brought Jayne into the mix, everything went to ****. Now only Koda uses the litter box, despite how often/long we do boot camp. They are generally, all around, more misbehaved with the kit around now. But we love them, and accept that this is the behavior of normal ferrets and we move on with it. You know what they say about one bad apple. ;D

However, in regards to your desire to own this many pets : I'm sure you have all the time in the world right now to give the love and attention that all of your animals need. I have learned through experience that with a career, an impending marriage, and family obligations, that this time is GREATLY diminished and it doesn't take long before you realize you're not able to keep up with all the animals the way you used to. We understood that when we took on a second cat, it was to keep our single cat company so he didn't feel abandoned. This reduced his need to be attached to us at the hip by about 94%, and we are very pleased with this result. The cats need us at bed time and for food, but are otherwise very self sufficient. This leaves us with time to do all of our work, and still play with ferrets. It's hard to force ourselves to actually follow through with long enough play times and such, but we get it done because we know they deserve and need it, no matter how exhausted we are.

To pay for vet bills, feeding, grooming, and other expenses for all of these animals, I can only imagine the number of jobs you would need to work. There goes approx. 8 to 10 hours of your day FOR JUST ONE job. Take into account that house chores will need done, including cleaning up after animals. I have 3 ferrets and 2 cats and my fiance who leaves things strewn about the house at all times. This takes up about 2 hours of my day if I do a very quick run through of the ferret cage and cat litter box. Thorough cleaning takes about 3, when you include all of my other house chores. So now you're up to roughly 13 hours out of your day, just cleaning and working. You will need about 8 hours of sleep to make all of this happen. That's 21 hours. You have 3 hours to play with all of your animals......For us, that is one of 2 ferret play times in a day. You can see how very quickly your time disappears. This will not be enough time to bond with them every day. Now, I know the whole "but I will have days off" argument is going to come up. A word of advice, animals cannot count on you to be their playmate only once or twice a week. They need you every day. Contrary to most other situations in life, setting up a schedule to make this happen will not make anything easy for you. Things come up, and you'll find yourself skipping play times, keeping animals caged more and more. Only interacting to feed. I've noticed us doing this with the ferrets and quickly put a stop to it.

In summation, it isn't easy being a parent to ANY animal. There is no such thing as a low maintenance furry companion. If you're looking for one, stick with fish. If you want exotic, and great numbers of them, then you are basically going to have to find a way to work from home and makes tons of money doing it. Which isn't going to happen with this economy. Not anymore. If you decide that nothing we say is going to change your mind, then I sincerely hope the very best for you and yours. But I urge you to rethink everything. Animals are a forever deal. They are not a "when you get tired of me", "when you have no more time for me", "when you get a new girlfriend or boyfriend", "when you are no longer bored" thing. They need your love. And your attention. I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm just saying, maybe you should think about it before you follow through.

[moonfall]

Again, the mice, except for the 6 I keep now, are NOT my thing. I will probably never have more than 10 at any given time.

And the fox will have an outdoor run, and knowing red foxes he/she will prefer to be outside much of the time.

Now, I think that if the proper safety precautions were taken (The runs would all have double doors, feeding hatches, etc so if one of the animals were in a bad mood or something it could be fed and interacted with safely) and the areas of the house that had mice or other animals in them are blocked with double, solid doors, then it is rather unlikely that ferrets or anything else could slip out.

Each of the cats would have a run of his/her own as well and depending on their personalities would be let in/out individually.

I have raised squirrels, and actually just finished releasing one of the babies from this year. I have also raised baby mice, who require feeding every 2 hours (sometimes every hour if they are sick) around the clock. I know how much work the little guys are and when they get bigger they can be real handfuls. It is worth it though.

Anyway. I think I am going to take a break from this site for now. I may be around lurking but I won't be posting much I don't think.

[matty]

I'm sorry if you feel like you have to leave because of us voicing our opinions, IF that is the reason. I'm sure I'm not the only one who intent was solely to educate, and not to offend. I wish you the very best in your future and hope you come back around. Blessings and light to you and yours.

[moonfall]

It is making me feel very unwelcome. So yes. I will be taking a break.