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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 20:01:24 GMT -5
Perfect As for the menu, since they don't ever eat a "full meal" during their PM meal, I would say your best bet is to feed the same meal for both AM and PM meals and balance them that way. This will also make your life simpler because instead of having 14 different meals, you'll only have 7 or 8. So your menu would look something like this: Monday - bone in day (same bone in meal for AM and PM) Tuesday - muscle meat day (same muscle meat meal for AM and PM) + some heart Wednesday - bone in day Thursday - muscle meat day + some heart Friday - bone in day Saturday - one organ meal, one heart meal Sunday - bone in day That would give you 8 bone-in meals and 4 muscle meat meals, but since they don't really get a PM meal per say you will look at it like 4 bone in days and 2 muscle meat days. The heart and organ is where it gets tricky because You should not feed more than 2oz liver and 2oz other organ per ferret per week but lots of heart is good for them. So your best bet there would be to do the AM meal as an organ meal (4oz liver and 4oz kidney/other organ between 2 ferrets) and then feed heart throughout the rest of the day. that gets yucky heart and liver poops out of the way all on one day. You'd also want feed a little bit of heart on your two muscle meat days to make sure they are getting enough taurine since they won't really be getting a full heart "meal" you can compensate this way. And then depending on how much bone they are getting you may have to throw an extra bone-in meal in there. We recommend 8 meals per week of bone if they are rich in bone ( necks, wings, ribs, etc.) but then if they aren't eating enough of the bone, you can bump it up to 9. You can also alternate 1 week 9 bone meals, 1 week 8. The 9th bone meal would replace one of the feedings on a muscle meat day. You definitely CAN feed different AM and PM meals so say you feed chicken wings in the morning, you could feed Cornish hen bones at night but since you know they only really eat during the day I'm thinking it will be easier on you to just feed the same thing all day, rather than worrying about doing the different meals at night. Don't worry if any of that seems complicated, I threw a lot of info at you there ;D and you will definitely get to a point where YOU will be able to plan your own weekly menu, but since you asked I thought I would give you the crash course ;D Right now we just want to focus on getting Wheatley and Charlotte to eat bone, to eat different proteins and then eventually heart and organ and THEN we can worry about balancing the menu ;D
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Post by cierva4 on Mar 17, 2012 21:50:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips for menu planning. That makes a lot of sense, and I feel like it might even make it easier once I get the newer proportions down. We picked up beef and hen today, and did our best to prepare the hen. They'll get their first taste of the hen tomorrow morning. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 14:18:45 GMT -5
Not a problem Excellent! Let me know how the hen goes It shouldnt taste TOO much different than chicken, so here's hoping they just chow it right down! ;D
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Post by cierva4 on Mar 18, 2012 18:05:42 GMT -5
So. I've got a new one. (Ferret Talk:: Introducing Nathan Drake)
I gave him some chicken thigh and some wing. He's eating it like a champ. He's very gassy though, and his poop is kinda watery. I'm not sure but I think his but looks a little puckered too. Not a lot, but his butt is a little more... noticeable than Charlotte and Wheatley's. Honestly, I'm not sure if he came home with his butt like that. His first poop here was kibble-y, but he took right to the chicken so I haven't given him any kibble here. He's active and happy, and eating PLENTY. I thought I'd give him some hen tonight as well, should I also give him beef this week while he's still imprinting? I'm a little lost when it comes to a voluntary switch. hahaha
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 18:39:25 GMT -5
Congrats on the new addition! He is a cutey! At this point he probably just has stress poops! However since it sounds like he's starting to already prolapse a little bit, you don't want to let him have diarrhea for too long or he'll get a prolapse for sure. See if you can get him eating the squash. Give him 1/2 tsp per day, even a touch more wont hurt, and this will form his stools better and not irritate the prolapse more. For the actual bum itself, you can take a bit of Vaseline and rub it on the bum directly. Don't try to push anything back inside. Just apply vaseline, hold him or distract him for a few minutes to let it work, before letting him go ( at which point he'll probably lick it off ). If it doesn't improve or gets worse, you may have to use preparation-H instead. but hopefully the Vaseline and pumpkin will do the trick. And then of course if things don't improve and he still has runny stools, a vet visit would be in order too. With babies you can pretty much let them switch themselves! That being said I would let him get used to the chicken / Cornish hen for a few days before trying the beef. By giving each protein a few days, it's easier to tell if there's any sensitivities to it based on the stool (like Charlotte with the turkey). But feel free to give him the hen, chicken, soup and even bones. He'll probably crunch them right up! Also If the diarrhea doesn't improve, you can give a few pinches of egg shell on his raw meat. And if he's eating the raw no problem, dont even give him the kibble back at all. Feeding kibble and raw will cause upset tummies and if he wants to eat raw, then by all means let him ;D
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Post by cierva4 on Mar 19, 2012 11:22:52 GMT -5
So Nate's crunched up some bones and passed them pretty well, considering it's still a little runny. After a few tastes, he's decided he likes the squash, so I've given him some of that as well. I had Charlotte and Wheatley try the hen last night. They both thought I was poisoning them again. I put some soup and ferretone on it and they both licked it but didn't eat any. I'll try again tonight with even smaller slivers. I gave Nate a little piece of the hen, and of course he gobbled it up. Aside from the little diarrhea, he's making this very easy on me. I'll do the weekly post later tonight.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 13:51:21 GMT -5
Good boy Nate! Don't worry that's totally normal, Charlotte and Wheatley are going to take a lot more work than Nate. With them, get super tiny slivers and hide them in soup. We are going to have to trick them with all new proteins I think. Once they are eating the disguised hen slivers in the soup, you can very very slowly increase the sizes and reduce the amount of soup. Nate is going to be a breeze ;D just let him keep eating whatever he will eat and let me know how his poops look after the squash the bone will help too.
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Post by cierva4 on Mar 19, 2012 21:02:51 GMT -5
Nate Weight: 1lb 8oz Activity level: he's got about a solid half hour in him, from what I've seen, and then he starts to peter out. He's very playful and curious and clumsy though. Stool size and consistency: he had a semi-normal poop today! haha he's a lot less gassy from what I've seen. It's still kinda runny and he makes a mess of himself more times than not, but I found a couple more well-formed ones this afternoon. Charlotte Weight: 1lb 14 oz Activity level: still pretty high Stool size and consistency: she still has the occasional runnier poo, but it's been a bit better. Once this weekend it looked a little... orangey? I'm not sure what that means. Wheatley Weight: 2lb 10 oz Activity level: high and happy Stool Size and consistency: he's had a good amount of boney poops, and otherwise it's dark and ploppy. A few questions: - is it okay to give them a little bone every day? or should I be alternating it? I just keep hoping that Charlotte will catch on eventually. -should I still be giving them soup cubes every day? Are they getting too much organ? I've been giving Charlotte and Wheatley 1 cube daily to share. -is there anything special I should be doing for Nate right now as far as his diet is concerned? He's had some bones and plain meat, as well as a little hen, squash and soup.
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Post by cierva4 on Mar 19, 2012 21:07:28 GMT -5
Oops forgot:
Weekly menu It's been chicken thigh, wing and soup all week. Charlotte will chew the bones a tiny tiny bit, but as far as I can tell she's not eating them. Wheatley's been doing well with them, though. I've been putting a little extra eggshell powder on Charlotte's soup. Like I said, hen hasn't gone over well so far. They don't eat much at night in general, so I'm going to give the extra small slivers of hen/soup mix in the morning when they're more likely to eat.
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Post by cierva4 on Mar 20, 2012 10:22:55 GMT -5
I take it back. Charlotte and Wheatley both ate a decent amount of hen slivers this morning. I mixed with soup and put a bit of ferretone on it again, and they ignored it at first. I was considering another scruff n stuff, but then Wheatley starting chewing on the slivers! After a few minutes, Charlotte caught on and had a few herself! Sooooo proud of my little stubborn fuzzballs. I left a few pieces with the hen rib bones in the cage, hopefully they'll try those today.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2012 13:07:41 GMT -5
Perfect, thanks! I'm glad to hear Nate's stool is improving! As for Charlotte's orange poops, are these after meals in which you are feeding the squash? Squash is not digestible to them, we just use it to help pass the food through more easily, push hairballs out and to keep the stool a little more consistent. This means that it passes right through them, so since it goes in orange, it comes out orange! ;D A few questions: - is it okay to give them a little bone every day? or should I be alternating it? I just keep hoping that Charlotte will catch on eventually. You can definitely give Charlotte a little bone every day since she isnt exactly eating it yet, she's not going to get too much calcium. I know you are still sprinkling crushed egg shell on her food too, so keep that up until she is actually eating the bone and not just chewing. But only sprinkle it on every other day (4 days per week) so she doesn't get too much. As for Wheatley and Nate, since they are eating it, you only want to give them bone for 8-9 meals per week at most (or 4 - 4.5 days) or else they are going to start having constipaton / getting too much calcium. -should I still be giving them soup cubes every day? Are they getting too much organ? I've been giving Charlotte and Wheatley 1 cube daily to share. I would keep giving them at least a little soup yes. This is going to help introduce new proteins and its going to make sure they are least getting a little heart and organ during the switching process. They are definitely not getting too much organ. The way the soup works is that it's 100% balanced. The calcium:meat:heart:organ ratio is balanced in such a way that it kind of cancels out. If you were feeding them pure organ soup, then they would be getting to much, but with the balanced soup, they will be just fine -is there anything special I should be doing for Nate right now as far as his diet is concerned? He's had some bones and plain meat, as well as a little hen, squash and soup. Nope, it sounds like what you are doing is perfect! Just no more than 8-9 bone meals per week like I mentioned above. I know his poop is still a little runny right now, but they can get constipated pretty quick from too much bone, so we want to avoid that for sure. Weekly menu It's been chicken thigh, wing and soup all week. Charlotte will chew the bones a tiny tiny bit, but as far as I can tell she's not eating them. Wheatley's been doing well with them, though. I've been putting a little extra eggshell powder on Charlotte's soup. Like I said, hen hasn't gone over well so far. They don't eat much at night in general, so I'm going to give the extra small slivers of hen/soup mix in the morning when they're more likely to eat. Perfect! I'd like you to start keeping track of what they are getting each day so that you can give me that menu for next week. Because Nate and Wheatley are eating bone so well, we've got to start to balance that out so they don't get too much. Here is what you should aim for: 8-9 bone meals or 4-4.5 bone days (chicken wings, or hen bones), Then the rest should be muscle meat and soup (so they get some organ and heart). Try alternate too so for example: Monday - Bones Tuesday - Meat Wednesday - Bones Thursday - Meat Friday - Bones Saturday - Meat Sunday - Bones I take it back. Charlotte and Wheatley both ate a decent amount of hen slivers this morning. I mixed with soup and put a bit of ferretone on it again, and they ignored it at first. I was considering another scruff n stuff, but then Wheatley starting chewing on the slivers! After a few minutes, Charlotte caught on and had a few herself! Sooooo proud of my little stubborn fuzzballs. I left a few pieces with the hen rib bones in the cage, hopefully they'll try those today. Yay good ferrets!!! It sounds like you've gotten past the initial hurdle of getting them to try it so hopefully things get easier from here! Do the exact same thing when you try beef this week Do you have any hearts on hand? I'd also like you to try get them eating some hearts. Maybe this weekend. You give them a plate of soup and sneak in a bunch of tiny slivers of heart (like the size of your fingernail) and they should hopefully eat them. You can't over-do heart as taurine is super important, but it does make their stools a little icky, so make sure you throw in some squash too. Otherwise things look great
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Post by cierva4 on Mar 21, 2012 7:37:53 GMT -5
All of that sounds good. :-) Charlotte ate hen ribs this morning! In fact I'm not sure Wheatley got more than a piece or two of the hen, because she ate it all up, including some cut up hen ribs. I've got plenty of hearts on hand. We went to the asian food market this weekend. I saw organs I didn't know people ate. But they did have a huge package of hearts for something like $2.50, so I snatched that up. I figure when it's time to give them the crazy organs, I know where to go. I'll defrost some this weekend and cut them up. Can I give them the hen spine and leg and the other bones? Or are they too dense? Do I need to smash them first?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 13:06:15 GMT -5
Yay Charotte!!! That is fantastic news things will definitely be easier now that they are all eating bone! Perfect! Asian markets are the best. Definitely have some strange things. Mine had fried pork blood cubes The more organ variety you have the better though so that's awesome! You can feed all of the bones in the hen. The neck and spine they should be able to chew through, just cut it into pieces. If you can't cut it then you might need to smash it a bit for them. The last hen I cut up actually had small enough legs that I could cut through the bones and the ferrets could eat it. But since your guys are just starting out, I would smash it at least a little bit with a hammer. Once Charlotte is eating bone more consistently along with the others, you can also see if you can get your hands on some chicken necks ( either at the Asian market or often the grocery store will have them, pet health food stores that sell raw have them usually, as will butcher's) they are packaged together, and you can cut them into halves or thirds. They are a great bone-in meat as they are very boney and have little meat.
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Post by cierva4 on Mar 22, 2012 11:06:59 GMT -5
Sooooo this morning I had a small moment of win I needed to share. I put breakfast the cages and woke them up (well, woke Charlotte and Wheatley up, Nate never sleeps). When I came back a few minutes later, I was greeting with the wonderful sounds of all three fuzzies happily eating hen bones. It just feels really good to know they're all on the right track. I was getting a little discouraged with Charlotte's stubbornness with the bones and the fails with the turkey and pork. Hen, and hen bones on top of that, just feels like a giant chunk of awesome. I know we've got a way to go yet, but I feel good about beef and hearts this weekend. Also, Charlotte looks around whenever she chokes on a piece of bone. She gags a little and then looks up like, "No one saw that, right?" ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2012 11:23:52 GMT -5
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