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Post by joclyn on Mar 3, 2011 14:49:33 GMT -5
i'm so sorry you lost your little one
it sounds like the 'tumor' wasn't a mast cell, rather it would seem to have been a malignant melanoma. that type of thing can (and does) spread throughout the body and can easily affect the heart - which answers for the possible 'stroke' that occured.
i know of another ferret that recently passed and the pathology tests showed the heart issue (that was the original suspected cause of death) was a result of a malignant melanoma that had spread - the spot had been noticed and hadn't been removed yet; literally wasn't time to do so from when the owner saw it and the ferret passed (was only a few days between the two events).
always, always, always do a biopsy when anything is suspicious!!
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Post by keawearascal on Mar 3, 2011 15:04:55 GMT -5
God-I'm smacking myself right now. WHY did I trust that stupid vet...I asked for a biopsy but her said it wasn't necessary, that he was sure. She's had the bump for years. It started out as a tiny mole. I "popped" it like a zit thinking it was an ingrown hair and it came back a few months later. I had it checked multiple times. It lost all hair around it and grew to the size of a dime gradually and opened. Around this time we brought the puppy home and she would pin Keawea down and clean it. It seemed to get better for a while but we had to stop allowing the puppy to clean it because she started teething and it didn't seem safe. I didn't have to bandage it till a few months ago (i just put ointment on it topped by a drop of hot sauce to discourage licking), and it rapidly grew to a full 3 inches until it started shrinking in the last few weeks. I don't understand how it wouldn't hurt her for years though if it was malignant...
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Post by sherik on Mar 3, 2011 15:25:03 GMT -5
I'm so sorry for your loss.
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Post by kainslie1 on Mar 3, 2011 15:41:33 GMT -5
I don't understand how it wouldn't hurt her for years though if it was malignant... Don't want to steal your thread, but i'm going through a cancer right now with my little man. I'm dealing with a VERY aggressive cancer - and apparently many vet's don't see ferrets live past 2-4 month with it, well i've had sly since august ( 8 months), and just got it tested, and i'm sure sly had it for at least a month or two before I got him.. and he is still going good.. It really effects them indivually.
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Post by shilohismygirl on Mar 3, 2011 15:53:05 GMT -5
I am so sorry to hear about Keawea. After she was doing so well, it must have been heartbreaking. As others have said, that treatment was probably NOT the reason little Keawea had a stroke. You were making her better, but the race against precious time cannot always be won. Keawea is now enjoying a life free of tumors, and is running happily on the bridge, looking down on you. This information will seriously help future ferrets.
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Post by joclyn on Mar 3, 2011 18:31:54 GMT -5
some of the mast cell tumors turn bad and some don't and that 'turn' can happen very soon after the appearance of the spot or it can be years and years before it occurs.
the spots can come and go as well - both those that are benign as well as those that are pre-cancerous or full-on cancerous.
pretty much the same situation as with humans and skin spots (moles, freckles, birthmarks or other markings and/or sunburn damage) - sometimes they're benign and other times not and sometimes the benign spots eventually turn bad - and it can be decades before that happens. that's why it's always a good idea to test - even if you're sure it's benign.
don't knock yourself, though!! you were following the advice of the professional.
you've just learned that you need to follow your gut and i hope your professional has learned that testing should be done anyhoo even when he/she is sure it's nothing to be concerned about!!
the big tip-off here is clear now that you've given some background.
once the spot became an open sore and didn't heal within a reasonable time frame is definitely when it 'turned'. testing should definitely have been done at that point. i know quite a few vets that haven't done so in the same situation as well as have discounted a medical condition being present even though it is clearly evident.
all in all, it's a sad way to learn the lesson that the professionals aren't always on the mark. no one is perfect though and we do have to remember that the vets are human and that means they're fallible.
i think the majority of us have experienced this particular lesson (i know i have! ).
on the good side of it, your experience will help others avoid the same thing and that is something to be thankful for as the loss of keawea isn't in vain.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 20:52:39 GMT -5
Melanomas are RARE in ferrets. And there are some common types of skin tumors can get large, open, and very messy, yet they never VERY VERY RARELY turn cancerous. And some really ugly canerous skin lesions VERY VERY RARELY metasticise. Here are some examples of a very common tumor in ferrets that are really nasty looking, but they VERY VERY RARELY turn cancerous. www.afip.org/consultation/vetpath/ferrets/Sebep/sebep.htmlKeawea's passing may not have been at all related to the tumor, which appeared to be in healing stages. -jennifer
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Post by keawearascal on Mar 3, 2011 22:55:09 GMT -5
maybe when you guys see you can take a better guess. if it helps, the crap that came out of it was white at first. Several drops of thin opaque fluid that could come from anywhere on the tumor, like they were pockets. Then sometimes it was thicker like a blackhead. Finally the stuff that came when the tumor walls collapsed (and seemed to only come from the walls) was gray and shiny and almost like solid chunks of tumor and than you could lift up the flaps of skin and actually see inside it. I started bandaging it when it smelled because I thought there may be infection-within a week of bandaging it even soaked old bandages had no odor at all. I could get my fingers under the tumor and actually lift it up and move it around-it was totally freely movable. it seemed to always be very itchy but didn't hurt her-even when the tumor walls blasted apart and the tumor shredded-heck even when she bled badly and I had to pile on the stypic powder she didn't even notice-just kept eatting her treat obliviously. my fingers even slipped and scratched it a few times and she didn't miss a beat. She was running up the stairs up to 5 minutes before she died and never had her appetite decrease or poo or pee get weird. She was even strong even 5 minutes before she died
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 23:54:22 GMT -5
Here are the pictures... there will be several - I will identify the last one of the series. I have to post as attachments because I cannot use photo bucket.(there will be one picture per post . 5 posts total) Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 23:55:45 GMT -5
2. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 23:56:45 GMT -5
3. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 0:02:44 GMT -5
4. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 0:03:32 GMT -5
5. this is the last picture - shows the banadage Attachments:
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Post by Sherry on Mar 4, 2011 0:09:53 GMT -5
That tumor looks an awful lot like the third pic in that link you posted, Jennifer. That poor baby girl At least it didn't seem to be causing her any pain, and that's a blessing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2011 10:53:03 GMT -5
I think one thing we need to keep in mind here is that, without diagnostics, we can only guess at what may have happened. While I will state that that I don't think he lesion looks like a mast cell tumor, I don't know for that it wasn't.
The other thing I would like to add is that, while it's possible that reishi may have contributed toward "healing" of this tumor, it's also possible for a tumor to grow so large that blood supply cannot to much of the tissue, much of the mass then dies, and the necrotic tissue begins to deteriorate. I suspect this was the more likely scenario in this case.
As far as the use of reishi is concerned, reishi has anti-histamine properties, and mast cell tumors tend to develop from adrenal-associated elevation in histamines. Therefor, the correlation between the use of reishi and improvement in mast cell tumors in ferrets is valid. Anything beyond that is purely conjecture.
-jennifer
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