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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 11:15:40 GMT -5
Okay so here is what I'm thinking.....
The commercial stuff has some organ (only the ostrich). Let's say it was 10% liver in the ostrich formula. If we had 2 lbs of ostrich, 3.2 oz of that would be liver. Let's say it was 25% bone - that's 8 oz of bone. That leaves 20.8 oz of meat.
For the duck, all it is are ground necks. Since there is half as much duck as ostrich I'll use 1 lb. Let's say 40% of that is bone. That's about 6.4 oz of bone. That leaves 9.6 oz of meat.
Now the deer is all meat. Again, half as much as ostrich so 1 lb. 16 oz of meat.
Take all the numbers together. 64 oz of meat total. 46.4 oz meat = 73% muscle 14.4 oz of bone = 23% bone 3.2 oz liver = 5% organ
The muscle meat ratio is good. Bone is a little high. Organ should be 10%
Okay so let's say your home-made soup is about 23 oz (8 oz chicken + 8 oz pork + 4 oz liver/kidney + 3 oz hearts) 23 oz total 17% of that is organ. BUT you only feed this 2-4 times a week which won't balance out with the 5% to a net organ % of 10.
I think we need to up the organ. They need a diet of about 10% organ, 5% liver, 5% kidney. The only way I see doing that is to increase the organ content of your home-made soup OR feed a separate meal of organ meats. Let me know which you would prefer, and I can work out the numbers for you. I will then run all this by the people above me and see what they think. I *think* my logic is correct, but let me know if you see any errors.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 11:36:27 GMT -5
Flower is not yet eating the wing that I've seen so they get a wing on top of their commercial meal. I don't know if they will eat organ on their own, so I think that adding more into the home-made mix might be easier until I can get them to try organ on their own. Oh and I weighted them all yesterday at work! Flower is 1lb 8oz Davinger is up from 1lb 13.5oz to 1lb 15oz! And Amalia is down a little from 1lb 12.5oz to 1lb 12oz but she was the hardest to switch and has been doin good at eating on her own the past few days so I expect her weight to go up now. Sent from my Desire HD using ProBoards
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 14:01:26 GMT -5
So this is what I got.
For home-made mix: Have total of 14 oz of meat (7 oz chicken 7 oz pork). Then use 6 oz of liver/kidney (I think there should be more kidney the liver. Like 4 oz kidney, 2 oz liver). Then ad your hearts in. That should give you approximately 26% organ meat (that should be okay.) If you see their stools are too dark/tarry/yuck then reduce the organ to 5 oz.
If you're feeding 5% organ meat for 10 meals (commercial raw) and 26% organ meat for 4 meals (soup), it should work out to be a net organ % of about 11.
.05 x 10 feedings = .50 .26 x 4 feedings = 1.04 Total = 1.54 divided by total feedings (14) = 0.11 or 11%
Also, it works out for the bone content (which is high). You have about 23% bone content for 10 feedings. Divide that by the total feedings to get a net bone of 16%.
Now, if and when you get Flower eating wings, I might need to adjust the numbers. I think it would be GREAT to have at least one bone-in meal (so a meal entirely of whole meats) once a week for the dental benefits. Since the babies eat it fine, it's just a matter of getting flower to.
Have you tried smashing the wing up? Also try cutting the wing into skinny, long pieces. This is the ONLY way my oldest Pixie eats whole pieces.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2012 20:34:36 GMT -5
She shows interest in the wing but just licks the pieces that I cut off. Also her appitite is awesome since the kids came along. Remember how I would always say she is finicky, sometimes eats good sometimes not? Well the "competition has done her well. She is now always first to the food bowl, and then she really chows down she is like "oh ****! I'd better eat the food before its all gone!!" Lol I am making a new home-made mix this weekend and will implement the recipe ratios that is fine that I use more organ because I always end up throwing so much of it out since it doesn't get used and they don't sell organs in small packages Sent from my Desire HD using ProBoards
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2012 21:13:25 GMT -5
That's wonderful. Competition definitely seems to encourage them to eat. Has Flower had her BG yesterday recently? I'd be temped to skip a meal (or try feeding her a light breakfast so she's still hungry) and see if that helps her eat the wing. I had to scruff and stuff bone for a while before it took.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 7:51:11 GMT -5
No she has never had her bg tested. The vet that I took her to when I first got her couldn't get enough blood to test it. I had wanted her tested when I first got her because her previous owners claimed she was "showing signs of cancer" and that's why they dumped her at a petco >:/ and the vet that I work at doesn't see the reason for doing tests if she is not showing signs of being sick.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 8:10:23 GMT -5
I understand. I just worry with her age that she has insulinoma. If we skipped a meal and she does have it, she could have a seizure while you're not home. So I don't want to risk that if we're not sure. Can you try making her breakfast smaller? That way she's hungry by the next feeding?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 9:16:15 GMT -5
I will do that Saturday since I will be home most of the day so I can keep an eye on her. Is there a type if meat/home that they like better than chicken wings?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2012 23:55:39 GMT -5
Mine adore Cornish game hen. The bones are really small. Mine prefer bones with lots of marrow like spine, but generally eat the entire bird. You could try that. Mine also enjoy turkey necks, but those are not a good starter food because they are a lot harder to chew. Chicken necks or Cornish game hen necks would be good Smash all the bones with a mallet, and then cut the meat into long, thin pieces.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2012 22:44:57 GMT -5
OK soI made the new mix and so far off to a good start. She still does not know what to do with the bone pieces yet lol she will take a small piece that I cut off from my hand and then put it down and is like "Now what?" lol Im sure she'll get the hang of it soon though. At least she takes them from my hand now. Amalia and Davinger will sometimes eat chunks of chicken heart but not Flower yet so I will just keep mixing it in the mix and give them heart chunks on occasion until I see them all eating the chunks. Ok so what else do I have to do for my weekly menu other than what was discussed already?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2012 22:56:41 GMT -5
That's great! I think she will definitely get the idea soon Well, we will probably have to change it slightly once Flower is eating bone (shell be getting more calcium, so we will adjust everything else) but I think it's good until then.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2012 8:50:26 GMT -5
Just figured I'd give a quick update since its been a while. Everyone is doing great, the kids eat their bones and eggs, I gave them a beef neck the other day and they were chewing on it. Flower goes over and shows interest and maybe a lick or a bite but she is not quite there yet. So I have been brushing Flowers teeth until she starts chewing bones more, and if not, ill just keep brushing her teeth lol. All and all I'm really happy with how every one is doing. They all run right to their food and eat it all up! I will try and get weights on them tonight.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 4, 2012 21:01:54 GMT -5
Hi, Jackie's been pretty busy, so I'm in here for a couple of days Can you write me up a menu on what they are eating and when? Menu form, please.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 23:41:31 GMT -5
Ok this past week they had Monday: AM & PM-Soup Mix PM- Pumkin+Chicken Wing Tuesday: AM & PM- Soup Mix PM- Pumkin+Salmon Oil Wensday: AM & PM- Bravo Ostrich+ Bravo Venison PM- Pumkin + Taurine Thursday: AM & PM- Soup Mix PM- Pumkin Friday: AM & PM- Soup Mix PM- Pumkin + Beef Neck Saturday: AM & PM- Bravo Ostrich + Bravo Venison PM- Pumkin + Salmon Oil + Taurine Sunday: AM & PM- Bravo Ostrich + Bravo Venison PM- Pumkin + Salmon Oil + Taurine
Soup Mix is 1/2 chicken meat, 1/2 pork meat for the main meats, chicken hearts, and 1/2 beef liver 1/2 beef kidney for the organ meats. In soup ratio, so 8oz meat to 2 chicken hearts to 2oz organ.
Bravo mix has ground bone in the ostrich (Flower still does not really chew whole bones so thats why I make sure I give them almost 1/2 their meals bravo...) But Amalia and Davinger chew the bones, especially Davinger!
Oh, and the kids each had a button quail egg this week, but I forget which day lol Flower doesnt like those yet either
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Post by Sherry on Mar 4, 2012 23:50:06 GMT -5
Okay, one problem I can see right now. They can't have a meal of pumpkin Not a good thing. We give it to help replace what they would have been getting from whole prey like fur, etc. They need about 1/2 tsp each at most, no more than that. Where you have pumpkin listed for a meal, they need meat instead. I only see 4 bone meals that they can actually eat. I'm assuming they can't eat all the bone from the beef neck?
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