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Post by Sherry on Feb 5, 2011 17:00:29 GMT -5
You will notice they eat less when they have to work at it They are basically lazy little sods at heart, who want everything prepped for them! As long as everyone is eating at least the thick soups, you likely don't need the kibble any more. And yes, some do better with small bits of meat, with kibble dust on them. Mine didn't, the brats
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 6, 2011 11:59:06 GMT -5
Pork chunks were cleaned out this morning so I gave them the rest of the pork, chopped up with some fish oil on top and all dug in, Koda is a stasher, I closed their dig box because I keep finding meat in there so he puts it in the empty litter bag instead, must have put 3-4 pieces in there, then he went and ate out of the bowl and Pip went in the litter bag and ate all that nicely stashed food. Craven and Pandora coated theirs in litter. I'm going to make my boyfriend build a nice nesting/den box for them like that one person has in their ferret room on here, I love that idea and hopefully they will bring food there instead.
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 6, 2011 12:04:51 GMT -5
I was wondering what a good brand of freeze dried raw is, I'd like to pick up some and get them used to that as well for when I go on vacation, I don't know if my ferret sitter feels like dealing with dead animals. Also thawing whole prey? Just in a bag in the fridge like anything else? Should I warm it in hot water before I give it to them or will they take to cold food ok? I mean they eat mice that have sat around for half a day but those were always freshly killed.
Speaking of which, hate my house, we ripped out the carpet for the ferrets and it's hardwood underneath, there's a gap between the wall and floor, found half a mouse in there yesterday when I move the cage. Haven't fed mice in probably a week? Gross. That's getting fixed asap.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 6, 2011 15:59:06 GMT -5
a) Congrats on the success with the pork! As for a feeding den, try a simple soda box to see if they'll even use one. Save a lot of time and trouble, unless you are going to use it for a sleeping den if they don't. b) I like Archetypal 1, and Stella and Chewy's both. They seem to prefer the archetypal, but you can get a lot more variety with S & C. c) I've also found rabbit bits on Thursday's and Fri's. I feed rabbit on Sun. Still no idea how they get those large pieces out of the cages where they are fed- but they manage!
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 6, 2011 19:46:36 GMT -5
Well glad it's not just me who gets to find old dead animals stashed. I think a feeding den would be a hit with most of my crew, Pip doesn't care, he'll eat right wherever I put the food but Pandora likes to drag hers into the tunnel, Koda likes his in the dig box and Craven stashes food under a blankie in a corner. And if nothing else it would be a nice sleeping spot and a dark den for them, which they don't have.
So CGH tonight, I found one piece of pork left over from this morning but didn't see anymore, could be more stashed but who knows. I chopped part of the meat up into chunks and left that in the juices and clipped a wing to their cage, Pip and Pandora went for the wing, Pandora had the larger part and could tell she was really working at the bone, I wish I'd brought the camera up while they were chomping! The other two were eating the chunks.
I threw about half the CGH back in the freezer because it's pretty large, gave a piece to the cat too and left some in the fridge, figure I will try clipping a breast hunk to the cage tomorrow and see how that goes, get the ones who eat meat but not really the bones yet to pull some off and actually put some effort into eating. Pretty proud of them so far though.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 6, 2011 21:56:56 GMT -5
Ok, so exactly what meats are they eating now? Chicken, pork, mice, CGH, and what else? They are doing reasonably well with bone, it seems. How are they doing with liver and/or heart?
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 6, 2011 22:50:04 GMT -5
Also ground venison, egg, liver someone eats. Not sure if all of them are or just some but have put it in both mush form and chopped and it's always eaten. I know many on here do a "organ soup" to ensure it's getting eaten by all and I may start doing that when I get more organs, should that be like a weekly snack or? They will be getting whole prey hopefully 3-4 days a week but the other days will be covered by raw.
Seems like chunked meat is ok all around, but two aren't going for bone in really yet and don't seem to like the larger chunks. Haven't found any other organs yet though. Koda and Craven don't seem to be super enthused with raw, but definately getting better and I do catch them eating, they just seem to wait until I leave. The other two are pretty gungho, even with bone in which is nice, seems to get the others a little competitive and make them try it. Larger bones still a problem like the turkey wing.
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 6, 2011 23:00:29 GMT -5
I should say, my goal would be to have them eating weekly
day 1 mice, various ages, fresh killed day 2 chicken/cgh/turkey bone in day 3 guinea pigs day 4 rats, adult day 5 beef or pork muscle meat day 6 quail, 1 or 10 week old (whole) day 7 variety day, venison/duck/rabbit/organ soup/eggs/snackies (chicks/mealworms)
Probably not that set in stone obviously but my general idea so far, anything I need to drastically change/tweek? I'm happy they are all eating chunked meat already and I'm not sure if it's crucial they are eating bone in raw with so much whole prey, but I'd like to have them eating larger pieces and at least willing to eat off a carcass/large hunk rather than me chopping it up, and obviously a lot of this plan depends on how well they take to new whole prey items, which I guess we'll find out this week. I'm really not looking forward to chopping or mushing whole dead critter to be honest.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 7, 2011 2:17:38 GMT -5
That's a really good variety, if they take to it. Ok, so, 4 days whole prey, which will obviously affect how much liver/bone in they'll need otherwise. I think I'd like to see(besides the whole prey) 1 day bone in, even if it's just CGH, or chicken wings. Or even just one meal. With the liver, they will only need 1/2 what they would eat on a total frankenprey diet. So, 1 oz per ferret per week. Frankly, the rest could just be muscle meats. I would, however, prefer to see one meal of some sort of heart a week, just for the added taurine. Chicken/turkey hearts are a favourite here. Beef heart, some adore, some simply can't eat it, so that's up to you. And as long as they are eating mouse sized chunks of meat, they are doing well! You can always cut it in longer strips, and attach it to the cage. Cut them long and skinny, so they think they are getting a smaller piece, and gradually increase the thickness for them, til they are eating the size you prefer. Or, take something like a pork chop, slash it right through, so pieces are hanging off of it, then pin it to the cage/feeding den, what have you. For the ones who aren't overly fond of the bone in, try them with just wings for 3-4 days. Won't hurt them, and they learn how to eat them that way. You may have to segment for them, though, til they learn they can actually eat them. And most won't eat the entire turkey wing. Bone's too dense. They can eat the wing tips, and some can eat the small bone in the middle section. They can, however, tear the meat away from the bone!
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 7, 2011 8:35:57 GMT -5
Well I gave them the other wing off the cgh last night because the first one and most of the chunks were gone, there was a couple stashed but not much. This morning it was all gone. Gave them the breast area and skin clipped to the cage and got attacked by Pandora, Craven and Koda before I was even done attaching it! Craven was chomping on the skin, Koda ate a little bit but he's not happy that he can't drag it away. If only they took to everything like they do to chicken and CGH. I still need to see if the butcher can either order me some heart or order from hare today when I have more money, probably the latter so I can get some more rabbit and other meats I can't get locally. Organs are definately the hardest to find for me.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 7, 2011 11:33:11 GMT -5
With the heart, you may have to order by the case load. In the interim, to be sure they are getting enough, can you supplement with taurine powder? And Koda will get used to not being able to drag it off. They still need to establish a "pecking" order, for who gets to eat first, and who last. They'll sort that out themselves, though. Just as long as you can keep an eye out so the last one eating actually HAS something left to eat Let me know how they do with the whole prey when it comes in ;D
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 7, 2011 18:17:33 GMT -5
What the proper dosage for taurine? I have the crystal powder form, it has the dosage for putting it in a bunch of ground, but not for small amounts. Should I just coat the meat in it or throw it in a soup? I'll see if I can talk to the butcher next time I go for meat, I need to ask if they can get some more necks in anyways. How much is a case of heart? My freezer's kind of small.
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 7, 2011 20:21:25 GMT -5
Gave gizzards tonight, chopped some about a quarter of one and clipped the rest to the cage, slashed up like you suggested. Pip went over and chewed off the big piece until he was full. Pandora checked it out, and then went over and ate the chopped up pieces as did Koda. Craven was investigating the big piece but didn't eat any, I'm going to keep an eye on him because I think last time he didn't want the gizzards unless they were mushy. Hopefully I catch him eating some chunks or off the clip tonight. Took out pork for tomorrow. Going to take out some liver too.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 7, 2011 21:58:40 GMT -5
I believe one 500 mg capsule will do for 4 of them daily. However- you cannot overdose them on taurine. They simply excrete the excess. I think the clipped on meat will be a work in progress for some of them Odds are they'll start eating more of it, the less chopped they have access to. You don't want to do that just yet, however. You'll need to work them up to it. I was hoping they might take to it a bit easier, but oh well! And definitely keep an eye on Craven. His appetite could quite easily waver with the adrenal. Oh! And just to warn you- raw fed ferrets will frequently almost fast themselves every so often. So once your guys are really onto the raw(are they still getting any kibble?), you'll notice every week or two that they just won't seem to have an appetite, so don't panic
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 7, 2011 22:16:27 GMT -5
They haven't had any kibble in awhile, I had put some in the evening of the turkey wing because it seemed that they weren't eating much but then you said they might just be lazy with big bones, oops. That was maybe 1/4 cup and I put the rest on those pork chunks the next day and they haven't had any since and were kibbleless for several days before that as well. I have one un-opened bag of Evo sitting around still and a tiny bit of mixed kibble left in their container but seems like they've been eating enough raw so I haven't bothered with it.
I'm wondering, should I have food in there 24/7? Right now the morning food lasts most of the day, and then either they are out when I feed them supper or it's like the turkey wing, doesn't seem like they are eating off it anymore, so to ensure they are all eating I give the old meat to the cat or dogs and give them something fresh. At the last nightly cleaning there is always still a bit of food, either on the clip or stashed so I don't give them anymore and just feed in the morning. They seem to be doing fine on that, just trying to get a feel for more/less food.
I would love if they were all willing to eat off the clip better, but think they are doing pretty well so far, they will all try it at least with favored meats but you can tell this chewing/working at eating idea is a whole new world for Pip and Craven. The other two are almost naturals at raw and go right for the clip and chew on the bones. Either way this has been a lot easier than I thought feeding raw would be, I thought I would be feeding soups for months and that it would be super confusing/lot of work and it's actually been great, I kind of like preparing food for them and watching them chow down like real carnivores. I love this mentoring program, it's really great to have someone to ask whatever and be there for encouragement.
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