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Post by jasperngeorgie on Mar 11, 2019 10:58:25 GMT -5
I am SUPER interested in making this transition and am stil in the reaserch phase, as well as getting all the nessecary suplies, finding suppliers and figuring out my timing (so no vacations etc will interrupt the process). This really is a bit confusing to get started. Some preliminary questions I have are:
1) any recommendations for an affordable but reliable scale that can weigh both my ferret and the food?
2)I have looked extensively at the list of balanced raw options that can be purchased online. The Darwin pets natural is affordable and avalible to me. They only seem to offer chicken, turkey and lamb. A) is that enough variety? B) do these blends being ‘ballanced’ Mean that it is an acceptable diet on its OWN once I’ve switched and I dont have to scale out and add additions? or is that simply one PART of the menu? (The menue break down is I think the most confusing part of this and how t works in the various first options)
3) in the soup stage, am I removing the option of kibble and ONLY allowing them the hand fed soups? Can I make the soup out of wet grown kibble and still add raw chucks of chicken safely? How long can this diet go on safely? Or once they are eating small chunks of chicken or (hopefully soon) chicken wings how long can this limited diet persist safely? At what point should there be concern about mal nutrition if they are being picky or getting stuck on baby food/wet kibble soup and little chucks or whatever it is I can manage to get them to eat?
4) once they are eating raw is it unhealthy/ unwise to let them have kibble again? We take a 3 week vacation yearly and have a friend come stay with the pets. It is not NECESSARY but would certainly simplify things if they could eat kibble durring that period, since the friend works, and is only one person. There are 5 other pets in the house with different needs that are usually cared for between 4 people. But if that is unwise/unhealthy to do, I just want that clarity before I start up.
5) my 3 year old gal is heathy according to the vet but we have her on a passive heathy watch as she does have some thinning in her tail. What kind of precautions do I need to consider in her switch or particular risks/ bennifits and tell tale sighs do i need to take, watch and consider before switching. Is fasting more dangerous for older ferrets?
Thanks so much. I’m sure I will have a million more questions before I begin and through the process.
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Post by Heather on Mar 11, 2019 13:19:28 GMT -5
1. Affordable scale...any electronic scale that weighs up to 8 to 10 lbs. I bought mine on sale at Canadian Tire for about $10. I know of a number of people who've bought them just as affordable at Walmart and other stores. 2. (a) you require 3 different types of proteins minimum...the more you can incorporate the better (b) I don't know Darwin's ingredient listings. Not all grinds are balanced or even try to be balanced. What is required is meat, bone, organs and heart. 3. In the soupy stage, you can remove the kibble all together and just feed soupy but...they have to eat the minimum required amount for sustenance (about 2 to 3 oz for sprites and 3 to 4 oz for gibbs). This amount also is dependent on how much water you put into your soupy. The more water, the less nutrients are being ingested. If they're not eating enough during the day, you can give them their kibble overnight. 4. When I have people looking after my ferrets, I usually put together their food in individual containers, marked with dates and identifying what it is. If everyone eats together then you only have to put together however number of containers you need for each day. That means your sitter only needs to thaw and put the food into a bowl and feed. Easier and healthier than feeding kibbles. 5. The danger is a possible underlying insulinoma issue. Test her BG it's easy, cheap and then you know. Adrenal has no such restrictions. Hope that helps a little ciao
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Post by raynebc on Mar 11, 2019 14:33:03 GMT -5
2B. The Darwin website says the food meets the AAFCO cat dietary guidelines, so I assume that means it has everything in appropriate proportions, but when in doubt you can always email Darwin to ask.
5. Weigh your ferret regularly and keep the weights written down so you can observe any changes over time. Your ferret's weight may fluctuate during the transition, but ultimately you want the ferret to not be overly skinny or fat. Holding the ferret and allowing their lower body to hang free (ie. "dangling") is a common way to observe the ferret's body shape and the goal is for the ferret sides to be mostly straight like a cylinder instead of having a visibly slim waist or being bulgy around the mid-section. Some of my ferrets got notably chunkier on the soup stage of the raw diet transition and then returned to normal. One of my other ferrets was chunky before the transition and has remained chunky ever since. I'm not sure what my options are with him as they all share the same food bowl and if I feed less food to the three of them he'll eat more of the others' food. The vet has assured me he has no heart issues associated with his weight, so I'm just keeping an eye on it.
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Post by jasperngeorgie on Mar 11, 2019 15:00:40 GMT -5
Super helpful thanks!
The Darwin natural food is Listed on the holistic ferret wright up as a ballanced source so I assume it is, but will definitly double chcek before trying to switch. But I guess my question is if it IS ballanced, then is the grind itself a fine diet alone? If it was ballanced and that was ALL they were eating, is that a heathy?
Assuming I’m switching between lamb chicken and turkey (and supplementing with other meats I can find locally and can get them to eat) would I still need provide additional foods like something with bones to chew on or bigger hunks of muscle meat to tear at?
Or is the grind (assuming it’s ballanced) sufficient for a heathy diet without supplements?
I would supplement and can get things like goat, pork, duck etc here but for my lifestyle it seems my best bet to be consistent, would be to buy a ballanced grind and primarily feed that (with variety thrown in when I can and depending on what they will eat) But I’m unclear as to weather a ballance grind CAN be a heathy option without having to worry too much about the calculations of other variety.
Basically I want what’s best for them and I want it to be sustainable for me and my lifestyle so I’m wondering if I can find a system that will take out a lot of the complicated calculations ( I’m not trying to be lazy, we are busy but I’m down to do the work, but if I don’t have to iim happliy just pay someone else to do it lol. And frankly I am super overwhelmed by trying to understand all of the info, and going at it alone. Mostly I’m worried I’m going to do it wrong and negatively effect my bbs health.)
So to word the question really clearly
1) Is an EXCLUSIVE diet of a ballanced grind, rotating between chicken, turkey and lamb a heathy ferret diet?
If yes: 2) Do I need to be cautious are about how much or how little variety to add as periodic supplement/ treat?
Or cautious about what source that supplement/treat takes Like bone in chicken wing (are the bones safe if they primarily eat a grind) Or duck heart (I think I understand too much organ can give them vitinin A deficiencies)
It is SO great to actually be able to ask a human these questions! The internet has so much info but it is so hard to dig through it in a way that makes sense. Thank you SO much!
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Post by abbeytheferret6 on Mar 12, 2019 6:14:38 GMT -5
I have copied this from my mentor's info from way back when. I highlighted teeth for important info when feeding grinds. I was a little overwhelmed too when switching. So we get as close as we can to ‘natural’ by using a prey model that has been used for decades, a rough average of many species of prey animals - 80% meat, 10% organ, 10% bone. This prey model was originally geared toward dogs and cats who generally do not need as much bone in their diets as ferrets, which is why we say ferrets need 10-15% bone, depending on their poops. (This will be addressed later.) Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/16051/abbeytheferret6s-switching-thread-abbylee22#ixzz5hxHH4DsUThe best way to successfully feed a mince diet is to offer as many different proteins as possible in the weekly menu, with the minimum still being 3. Because minces can be out for 12 hours, it is normal to feed 2 meals a day. Often times ferrets will not eat it as willingly if it dries out, so a small amount of warm water can be mixed in after a few hours to refresh it. Others prefer to simply feed 3-4 smaller meals a day. Trust your instincts and nose and never refresh or offer a mince that has a bad smell or seems off. Another thing to consider is it is important to contact the supplier of your grinds to get an idea of what exactly is and is not included in each variety you plan on ordering. This tends to vary from supplier to supplier and even each type of grind. If you find that the supplier only includes a certain offal or an uncomplete mixture of offal, it is wise to consider feeding a whole meal of what is lacking. For example, some suppliers only put in two different organs in each mince mixture. This is completely random and they are usually unable to tell you which one has what organ included. This is fine for some of the organs, but the heart and liver are important to include in the menu, so many ferrents that feed a mince diet will include a meal a of just hearts (for the taurine benefits) and a meal of liver every few weeks to make sure their ferrets are getting a more complete diet. This is also the case with the bone content, it is lower in some grinds so a BI meal or supplements can be added to the weekly meal. This is easier to notice because the ferrets poops will be loose if they are lacking the needed calcium.
Minces tend to bind with back teeth and cause plaque, some worse than others. Because you lose the tooth brushing benefits of feeding whole bone, you have to utilize other methods of dental hygiene. In general, teeth should be brushed a minimum of every other day on a mince-only diet. More frequent brushing and/or a professional cleaning at your vet’s office may be needed if you can not remove all of the plaque. Another option for cleaning teeth is to offer a bone-in meal 2-3 times a week. Gizzards are also a good organic tooth brush. Even with feeding bone-in meals or gizzards, teeth should still be checked regularly and brushed or professionally cleaned if plaque starts to build up. Feeding a bone-in meal can also firm up loose stools if they should occur on a mince diet, but mixing in powdered eggshell or a good quality bone meal with the mince will also work. Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/16051/abbeytheferret6s-switching-thread-abbylee22#ixzz5hxIEmuJD
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Post by abbeytheferret6 on Mar 12, 2019 6:32:08 GMT -5
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Post by abbeytheferret6 on Mar 12, 2019 6:50:35 GMT -5
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Post by jasperngeorgie on Mar 12, 2019 8:34:01 GMT -5
Wow! That is super helpful!
That first post your mentor made with all the basics laid out was exactly what I needed!
It’s all on here for sure but finding it and stitching it together in a way that made sense to me was proving difficult.
I noticed that in your application questionare you were barely feeding soup and then once you got a mentor you were pretty well on your way to a raw diet with them! Did you do the soup- raw stages on your own?
I’m going to go back and try to find your self switch there’s but if you have it book marked and can shoot me the Link I’d love to look at that too!
That first step seems ‘easy’ but given that my girl won’t rven eat a soup of her own kibble the soup recipe given feels impossible. I’m going to try anyway! Just looking for some more inparation!
Also, I saw that you wanted to do the switch because your other ferrets didn’t have very long lives on kibble. We’re they also fed on the Wysong 90? That’s what my guys are on right now. My newest girl is 3 and was fed cat food before I got her, and I’m frankly terrified she may only live another 2 years 🙁 if I don’t work this out sooner than later.
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Post by abbeytheferret6 on Mar 12, 2019 10:11:32 GMT -5
I did start ferrets on soupies on my own. I just followed the forum soupie menu and instructions. You can make your own self-switching thread and report for feedback---like if you want to do frankenprey. I have switched two since then on my own. Other people have done it without a mentor. We had to know the initial post that our mentors sent really well to understand how to correctly feed ferrets raw. Also had to take a little test to graduate:) They say it is better to feed kibble then feed raw incorrectly. So since you are wanting to do just grinds probably add a tad of water to mix . Info on switching--- finger feeding, spoon feeding, and info on switching ferrets with insulinoma. holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/the-switch/I changed Abbey to Wysong from Evo after a recall but just for a little while. She was itching so much on it that when I found the forum, I changed her to raw. She died at 6.5 She had a tumor on liver that burst. The reason I do not care for chicken as the main source of protein as she had IBS and got ulcers in back of her throat---so no telling what little stomach looked like. My vet saw her do a little heave and checked the back of her throat.She wanted me to do novel proteins with her and that is when I started working on getting them on mice and other whole prey---it is expensive though. I do not know how other people's ferrets are doing on chicken or how often they feed it. I do a few meals of chicken. I wished none all--but would give out of whole prey during the month if i did not put some frankenprey in. So Wysong is suppose to be low carb. Carbs is what gives ferrets insulinoma. The high veggie matter in other kibble---particularly peas can give bladder stones(while a lot of kibbles says grain free-- they switched to peas-- and that is when a bunch of ferrets started getting bladder stones). My oldest will be 6 in Sept. I switched her at one year old(craigslist girl). I have had no ferrets to live past 6.5 in the past. I have one that I got from Petco that was a baby, and she has had no kibble at all---she is probably 5. So you can help prevent insulinoma by feeding raw---but the other biggies---adrenal and lymphoma can not be helped with diet.
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Post by jasperngeorgie on Mar 12, 2019 15:15:19 GMT -5
Thanks again! I think I will start a do it myself switch thread when I get myself together. I still feel like I need to feel more solid in my research and making sure I have my good sources worked out and vetted. As well as making sure I start at a time that I can stick with it if it takes awhile.
Gosh, the 3 days on this forum have been more helpful than a month of scouting the internet!
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