|
Post by Heather on Apr 30, 2017 23:40:43 GMT -5
Name: Gabriel HF Forum Username: chanzwg Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: I'm currently 23 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Here, on the forums! 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. Personally, I'm torn between feeding whole prey or frankenprey. I'm fine with either, but I don't know which would be more beneficial. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I want him to lead a long, healthy life without any problems from insulinoma and other diseases. I've read up on the problems ferrets face, and it seems like the natural diet will really ensure his happiness and health. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the necessary time commitment? Yes, I understand and I am willing. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I have had Titus for a week now. He is a 3 month old male ferret. To my knowledge, he has no health problems except for a recent stomach upset. He is currently on medication prescribed by the vet, and seems fine and active. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? I currently feed him a mixture of Ferret Plus and Origen Cat kibble, mashed in water. I previously added supplements which were recommended to me by the pet shop, but have since then stopped after advice from other forum members. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? Yes, I have tried feeding him small pieces of raw chicken breast. He was not interested until I dabbed a little salmon oil onto the piece, upon which he would open his mouth to lick it. I would then drop/push the whole piece into his mouth, and he would finish it himself. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I tend to be pretty paranoid about Titus's health at times, so I really need a mentor in order to allay whatever worries I have haha. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Every day of the week. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor (FireAngel), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
|
|
|
Post by FireAngel on May 1, 2017 15:55:51 GMT -5
Hi @chanzwg and welcome to your official switching thread! You can read my full mentor profile here if you haven't already, HEREI'd like you to fill in the following information below for each of your little ones just we can can have full record here:Ferret Name Gender: Age: Weight: Health Issues: Current Diet: Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Photo! A lot of this you have already read and done but please look through it anyway!Here is an example menu for a week of a full frankenprey diet. Monday am: edible bone in meat Monday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*
Tuesday am: edible bone in meat Tuesday pm: muscle meat
Wednesday am: edible bone in meat Wednesday pm: heart
Thursday am: edible bone in meat Thursday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*
Friday am: edible bone in meat Friday pm: ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ
Saturday am: edible bone in meat Saturday pm: muscle meat
Sunday am: edible bone in meat Sunday pm: ½ liver + ½ other organBasically, per week this works out to: 9 meals bone-in meat 2 meals muscle meat 1.5 meals of heart 1.5 meals of liver and another organ Proportionally, their diet should be a minimum of 10% heart, 5% liver and 5% another organ like kidney, brain or pancreas, about 10%-15% bone (requirements can vary based on the individual ferret), with the remaining 60%-70% being muscle meat. One last thing I'd like to cover is what I need from you and what you can expect from me. I prefer you post a detailed update at least every other day (daily is best but we all have things come up including me!). The details I need are what and how much was given vs. how much was eaten, how receptive was your ferret/s, what you did to encourage them to eat. I also hope that you will feel comfortable enough with me to ask anything you are wondering about including health issues. I promise I will always do my best to answer them and if I do not know the answer I will ask more experienced mentors. There will be short quizzes to help me know that you know what you need to. Once your ferrets are fully transitioned to their new diet, there will be a final test and menu review in order for you to graduate. Can't wait to get started!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 5:51:08 GMT -5
Hey Heather! Nice to meet you! Really good to have you as my mentor! Ferret Name: Titus Gender: Male Age: 5 months old Weight: 32 oz (0.9kg) Health Issues: None, though the vet has noted that he's been lacking energy lately. He still plays alot with Lily, but he really enjoys taking naps. Current Diet: Slightly minced chicken thigh/heart/liver + smashed chicken bone in meat Biggest transitioning challenges so far: None. Thankfully both take almost immediately to what I put into their bowl. Photo! Ferret Name: Lily Gender: Female Age: 3 months old Weight: 20.5 oz (0.56kg) Health Issues: None. Current Diet: Slightly minced chicken thigh/heart/liver + smashed chicken bone in meat Biggest transitioning challenges so far: None Photo!
|
|
|
Post by FireAngel on May 2, 2017 12:58:32 GMT -5
They look cute and great! I would like to have a better idea of what our end goal is here for Titus and Lily, is it frankenprey, whole prey or a mix of both? Whole prey is the most natural way to go but it is also the most expensive. Most of us that feed it do a balancing of frankenprey with the whole prey. Have you bought any other meat types for them yet? If they are doing well with the mince try moving them up to slivers. I have a few lessons I am going to share with you like once a week or so, if any of the info is something you already know then just consider it a refresher course :heehee: First lesson, Credit to Machan, I literally just copied and pasted her hard work!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2017 20:58:47 GMT -5
My goal for them is Frankenprey! It's kind of hard to get a whole prey supplier here in Japan :\
I haven't bought any other meat types yet. Should I do so?
Also, I have a question as to how much bone in meat I should be giving them right now since they are just starting on it atm.
|
|
|
Post by FireAngel on May 2, 2017 23:12:38 GMT -5
If they are eating the chickem easily and willingly, yes add another protien type. 7-9 meals a week should be bone in meats. Here is a lesson on bones, Todays lesson is BONES!!!! Bones are needed for a few things, Calcium, teeth health and helping to clean the intestines of a ferret. They stimulate blood flow which encouragse intestinal motility which promotes a health over all GI tract! Here are a few links and some information for you to read more about the incredible edible bone! Bone in- meat with consumable bones. Some ferrets can handle larger bones, some will need small bones from the size of a chicken or smaller. Exceptions are neck and tail bones. Some ferrets CAN eat the weight bearing bones from things like rabbit and chicken, but most won't bother with them. It will sometimes work better if you smash the thigh/leg bones from chickens. Good examples are: chicken necks/wings/spines, turkey wing tips/ribs/necks, duck wing tips/ribs/necks, pork rib ends/riblets, some will eat pork neck, most adult whole prey(rabbit/mice/rats/quail/gerbil/hamster/guinea pig). Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/146/meat-bone-organ-weekly-menu#ixzz4IDl5oAKPholisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18359/smashing-bone-beginner-ferretsholisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/14397/effect-stomach-acid-discussion-thread
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 0:27:24 GMT -5
Gotcha! I think once my current batch of minced liver/heart/thigh is over, I'm going to start on the proper menu for them.
Today, they had 1 oz of bone in meat and 2 oz of the mince in the morning.
Had another 2.5 oz of bone in meat at night.
|
|
|
Post by FireAngel on May 3, 2017 9:23:50 GMT -5
Excellent! :goodjob: So 3 oz seems to be a good amount per meal then? This leaves enough in case of extra hungry but not a lot of waste for you?
Here is another lesson,
Today's lesson will be Variety and Balance. Variety is extremely important for many reasons and can directly effect balance. Ferrets need mental stimulation and variety in food types, sizes, textures and temperature can help provide some of this stimulation for them. It is good to have them used to many different textures of food for that reason and to keep them used to softer foods such as grinds and easy to digest foods such as soup for when/if they become sick and need to have such textures. While we never cook their meals, warming them can be helpful and occasionally is even their preferred way to eat. What counts as a different protein you ask, well this is pretty easy to answer. Any genetically different animal counts as a different protein. Examples, Chicken, Beef, Lamb, Goat, Rabbit, Mice, Rats, Guinea Pigs (Cavies), Frog, Salmon, Sardines, Tuna, Anchovies, Turkey, Quail, Cornish Game Hen, Venison, Elk, Buffalo, I could go on but I think you get the picture. Now there is a little bit of a caveat here, Chicken and Cornish Game Hen are not different enough genetically to really be considered a different protein for balancing of a diet purposes. In order to provide the basic balanced meal plans, your menu should include at LEAST three different proteins. We covered what counts as different now we need to cover why it needs to be different and that brings us to the balancing part of the lesson also. Nutrients and micro-nutrients and macro-nutrients those are the reasons variety is important. Each and every different protein we give our little carnivores provide different amounts and types of these amazing and important things and each and every one of those amazing things helps nourish and develop different cells of the body and brain. Makes sense then if we can provide them with as many different types of these magical things that we will be giving them the best chance at being healthy, right? Now there is another aspect to balancing that has nothing to do with nutrients or variety but is the muscle/organ/heart/bone balance. We use the model that resembles what they would eat in nature. Proportionally, their diet should be a minimum of 10% heart, 5% liver and 5% another organ like kidney, brain or pancreas, about 10%-15% bone (requirements can vary based on the individual ferret), with the remaining 60%-70% being muscle meat.
Here is an example menu for a week of a full frankenprey diet. Monday am: edible bone in meat Monday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*
Tuesday am: edible bone in meat Tuesday pm: muscle meat
Wednesday am: edible bone in meat Wednesday pm: heart
Thursday am: edible bone in meat Thursday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*
Friday am: edible bone in meat Friday pm: ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ
Saturday am: edible bone in meat Saturday pm: muscle meat
Sunday am: edible bone in meat Sunday pm: ½ liver + ½ other organ
Basically, per week this works out to: 9 meals bone-in meat 2 meals muscle meat 1.5 meals of heart 1.5 meals of liver and another organ
You may wonder why we do not recommend that you feed a balanced meal of bones,muscles,heart and organs for each meal, the answer is that in households with multiple ferrets it is impossible to tell if they are all eating the variety they need or if one or two are eating all the hearts or organs. Looking forward to any questions you may have about this!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 23:35:22 GMT -5
Hi Heather, thanks for the information. And yes, 3 oz seems to be a good amount. Titus usually eats about 40% and Lily eats 60%, but that seems to be a given because of how young she is. What I've also noticed is that the both of them hardly drink any water anymore. I normally wet their meat before giving it to them (till there's a slight pool around the meat), but is this normal? I put water in a bowl, but neither of them bother with it.
I actually have a few questions about this!
While my local supermarket stocks different kinds of meat, they only stock chicken hearts and liver. In terms of variety, would it be okay if I use other meats for bone-in meat/muscle meat and stick to chicken for the heart and liver requirements?
Also, I notice you mentioned salmon as an acceptable protein. How would I prepare salmon? Given that salmon in itself usually has tiny bones in it, should I simply give them a fillet without deboning it?
|
|
|
Post by FireAngel on May 4, 2017 13:28:00 GMT -5
Yes it is perfectly normal for ferrets to drink less water now that they are eating raw. The raw diet has a lot of water content naturally. I would still change their water bowl daily but here is no need to worry about their lack of drinking as much. Heart and organs do not count towards different protein types anyway so yes, it is fine that they are chicken. We suggest other types if possible just in case they ever develop an allergy or sensitivity to chicken, which is fairly common. Salmon can be given without taking the bones out yes. In fact if you can get a whole salmon, head and guts intact, it is considered a whole prey meal. Fish make poops funny and smelly so I would not feed it any more then once a week. Next lesson, Todays lesson is BONES!!!! Bones are needed for a few things, Calcium, teeth health and helping to clean the intestines of a ferret. They stimulate blood flow which encouragse intestinal motility which promotes a health over all GI tract! Here are a few links and some information for you to read more about the incredible edible bone! Bone in- meat with consumable bones. Some ferrets can handle larger bones, some will need small bones from the size of a chicken or smaller. Exceptions are neck and tail bones. Some ferrets CAN eat the weight bearing bones from things like rabbit and chicken, but most won't bother with them. It will sometimes work better if you smash the thigh/leg bones from chickens. Good examples are: chicken necks/wings/spines, turkey wing tips/ribs/necks, duck wing tips/ribs/necks, pork rib ends/riblets, some will eat pork neck, most adult whole prey(rabbit/mice/rats/quail/gerbil/hamster/guinea pig). Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/146/meat-bone-organ-weekly-menu#ixzz4IDl5oAKPholisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18359/smashing-bone-beginner-ferretsholisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/14397/effect-stomach-acid-discussion-thread
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 5:12:26 GMT -5
Hey Heather, thanks! Hopefully the detox poops will end soon though. It can get quite funky sometimes. Also, the I read the bones bit from your post before! Thanks for the recap though
|
|
|
Post by FireAngel on May 5, 2017 10:02:41 GMT -5
LOl, well shoot! Sometimes I forget what I posted where to whom, sorry about that! Here is another lesson with hoefully something new in it you have not already seen before lol! Lesson time! Today's lesson will be on organs! So we know that ferrets need 10% of their diet to be organs but do you know what organs are? Lets start with liver, liver should make up half of all organ consumption. It is high in vitamin A and C and in the mineral iron. When a ferret is feed liver as part of a meal their bowel movements are often a dark almost black color due to the iron content and on the looser side (looser BM's are true for any organ meat and also for plain muscle meat meals). Do not panic when you see a very dark and or looser stool after an organ meal but do keep on eye on the stools to be sure it goes back to normal. The other half should be the most varied combination of hormone secreting organs that you can get your hands on. The reason for this is simple, every organ has a different benefit to it based on the hormones it secretes. Examples of secreting organs are; spleen, kidney, brain, pancreas, thymus, thyroid, parathyroid, testicles/ovaries/uterus, gallbladder and green tripe. Most ferrets will not eat the green tripe (unprocessed stomach, but if yours will wooohoooo! (dance) That is great!) Now that we know what an organ meal should consist of lets do some math (I know it is so exciting! ) Just as an easy example if a ferret eats 2oz meals and you are feeding the frankenprey diet model then in one week you need to feed 1+1/2 meals of organs. So 1/2 will be liver and the other 1/2 will be other organ, this means that you will feed 1oz of liver and 1oz other organ for one meal and for the other meal that is only half (we usually combine this with the 1/2 heart meal to make a whole meal) you would give 1/2oz liver and 1/2oz other (that wasn't so hard now was it?! ) You can read more here also, Organs That is the end of this lesson, please don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have about it! :thumbsup:
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 16:02:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the information Heather!
By the way, I recently started using bone meal powder in their food instead of egg shells like I used to. This has changed the color of the poop to a much paler shade. It's now a very pale whitish green. They still seem active and energetic, but I'm not sure if this is a good sign. Does this mean they are getting too much calcium or something?
|
|
|
Post by FireAngel on May 5, 2017 20:12:36 GMT -5
No it is fine, their poops will be hard with too much calcium. The bone meal is better asorbed by the body hence the change in color.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 21:04:37 GMT -5
Oh... what do you mean by hard? Because the poops are definitely drier than before with quite a lot less liquid content!
|
|