Tanya's Switching Thread / FireAngel

[Heather]

Name: Tanya

HF Forum Username: Tanya

Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older:
Born in ’85, I’m 31


1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
When Googling what to feed my new ferrets I found lots of into pointing towards a raw diet. Main bulk of what I’ve read has been on this site.


2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I would like to fully switch my ferrets. To begin with I had considered partially, but after more reading I‘ve decided it seems silly for me to not just go the whole way. Also, considering raw and kibble need to be fed apart for digestion, it actually sounds harder rather than easier, to do a partial switch.
I would consider one day feeding whole prey if I can source it, but I don’t want to do that for a while. I’d rather focus on other foods. I would like to try and find a source of commercial raw in Australia for times like when I need someone else to feed them, but I would only want to feed that once a week, at most, on a regular basis to keep them used to it. I would predominantly want to feed a frankenprey diet.

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
Pretty much all the reading I’ve been doing says it’s the best. Also the majority of the good kibbles aren’t even available here. If I was going to feed kibble, I would want it to be as good for them as possible, and there are precious few brands that are any good, available to me. What is available costs a fortune as it’s imported, so I’m also very hopeful that raw feeding will be a lot cheaper.


4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the necessary time commitment?
I understand. It’s sometimes hard to find time, but I can make it happen.


5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
I have 2 ferrets. I’ve had them both for about 3 weeks and they are both female. I was told they were born in October, so they are about 3 1/2 -4 months old. Their names are Opal and Charlotte (Charlie). They have no health problems that I know of. I think they are a good weight and growing.


6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup?
Wellness CORE original and kitten.
Some ground beef, pork and chicken with some success. Chicken wings, which Opal takes to more than Charlie, but I think they both eat some. I smashed them with a hammer and caught Opal crunching on the bones today. Charlie seemed to be eating them as well.
Just started trying salmon oil squeezed from capsules. Charlie loves it. Opal is a bit more tentative.
I have fed scrambled whole raw egg once and they seemed to enjoy it. I have since learned that I should split that up over more days and will do that from now on.


7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
No


8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
I’m not a stranger to animals but these are my first ferrets. I spend my days with horses and have some of my own I also have a Labrador, Helinka, who is my guide dog. I am legally blind but can see some, especially indoors. I’m glad I got 2 very different coloured ferrets as it really helps me know who I’m looking at. I can see them from the other side of the room, but not in a lot of detail. There is also a cat who lives in the house, but they’ve only seen each other a few times. I keep my dog and the ferrets mostly separate at the moment until the biting settles some.
As the girls are young, they are so full of energy. I look forward to the day they grow up a bit and my efforts pay off, so they stop biting me so much. I can see improvement, but they’re young and get excited.
As I live in Australia, I’m likely to be online at different times to my mentor.


9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
Every day although some days are busier than others. I also have an iPhone.


10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
I will take these today and add them later.


11. Do you have a scale sufficient to measure soup ingredients AND to regularly weigh your ferrets?
Yep, I bought a new scale today as I think there’s something wrong with my other one.


12. Have you met the requirements for this program? Are you at least 18 years of age? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc?
Yes, I’m over 18 and just bought a new scale. I am still sourcing some more meats, but I have found one source of chicken liver and heart, and bought a small amount.

13. Do you understand that if your mentor or an admin recommends seeking veterinary care and you refuse to seek appropriate care you may be dropped from the mentoring program?
Yes, I understand

Edited to add my unofficial switching thread: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/22560/opal-charlottes-unofficial-switching-thread

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor (FireAngel), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun :cup: . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[FireAngel]

Hi tanya and welcome to your official switching thread! You can read my full mentor profile here if you haven't already, HERE
I'd like you to fill in the following information below for each of your little ones just we can can have full record here:

Ferret Name
Gender:
Age:
Weight:
Health Issues:
Current Diet:
Biggest transitioning challenges so far:
Photo!

Here is an example menu for a week of a full frankenprey diet.
Monday am: edible bone in meat
Monday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*

Tuesday am: edible bone in meat
Tuesday pm: muscle meat

Wednesday am: edible bone in meat
Wednesday pm: heart

Thursday am: edible bone in meat
Thursday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)*

Friday am: edible bone in meat
Friday pm: ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ

Saturday am: edible bone in meat
Saturday pm: muscle meat

Sunday am: edible bone in meat
Sunday pm: ½ liver + ½ other organ


Basically, per week this works out to:
9 meals bone-in meat
2 meals muscle meat
1.5 meals of heart
1.5 meals of liver and another organ

Proportionally, their diet should be a minimum of 10% heart, 5% liver and 5% another organ like kidney, brain or pancreas, about 10%-15% bone (requirements can vary based on the individual ferret), with the remaining 60%-70% being muscle meat.

One last thing I'd like to cover is what I need from you and what you can expect from me.
I prefer you post a detailed update at least every other day (daily is best but we all have things come up including me!). The details I need are what and how much was given vs. how much was eaten, how receptive was your ferret/s, what you did to encourage them to eat. I also hope that you will feel comfortable enough with me to ask anything you are wondering about including health issues. I promise I will always do my best to answer them and if I do not know the answer I will ask more experienced mentors. There will be short quizzes to help me know that you know what you need to.

Once your ferrets are fully transitioned to their new diet, there will be a final test and menu review in order for you to graduate.
Can't wait to get started!

[Deleted]

Hi FireAngel and thanks for helping me out. My girls are plugging along with their transition pretty well, but there's more variety to be added, so I'm sure we'll find some more challenges yet. It feels a bit strange bothering a mentor when we're already this far, but I do appreciate your help.

The photos I have included are from about a month ago. I will try and get current photos and weights today.

Ferret Name: Opal
Gender: Female
Age:Born October last year. Around 5 months
Weight: will weigh today
Health Issues: None known
Current Diet: Opal is my best eater. She's happiest of the two to try new things and quite likes chunks to take away and eat. I'll post this week's menu underneath
Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Opal wasn't a fan at all of the kidney. Opal gets extremely pissed off if I try to give her food or pop it into her mouth. She is far too busy to be held.
Photo!

Ferret Name: Charlotte (Charlie)
Gender: Female
Age: The same as Opal. I suspect they share at least one parent
Weight:
Health Issues: None known
Current Diet: Charlie is a bit pickier, but judging by the amounts I weigh left over, I think she's currently eating everything on the menu so far. I caught her eating the turkey last night,so I know she's eating that. Charlie surprised me when I offered pureed liver and she almost dived right in. This week's menu will be below.
Biggest transitioning challenges so far: Charlie is much more picky than Opal. She's far more likely to tell me things aren't food. Charlie is more tolerant of having pieces put in her mouth, but will often just drop them anyway.
Photo!

Biggest challenge for both of them: Knowing who's actually eating and how much. When I introduce new foods they're too excited and want to play. They are full of a kit's supply of endless energy, so wearing them out first doesn't seem to be an option. They usually won't eat when I'm around, so I'm mostly going off weights. If there's more missing than I think Opal can eat, then I assume both ate. To top it off, watching them from a distance like standing back and looking at the cage, isn't an option for me. I have albinism and am considered legally blind. I can see quite a bit, especially in the house. I can tell where the ferrets are and thanks to their colours, I can tell who is who from a fair way away. I can't see the detail of who is eating in the cage unless I'm up quite close.

This week's menu:
Monday:
Am: (muscle) pork belly
Pm: (bone in) turkey wing

Tuesday:
Am: (muscle) beef and chicken thigh 1/2 and 1/2 ground
Pm: (bone in) chicken wing

Wednesday:
Am: (heart) chicken hearts
Pm: (bone in) turkey wing

Thursday
Am: (muscle) beef and chicken thigh ground. Ratio depends on how well the last meal went.
Pm: (bone in) chicken wing

Friday:
Am: (heart and organs) 1/2 chicken heart, 1/4 chicken liver, 1/4 lamb kidney
Pm: (pseudo bone in) chicken feet with pork belly

Saturday:
Am: (muscle) beef. Hopefully alone. Depends on how well the mixes have been going.
Pm: turkey wing

Sunday:
Am: (organs) 1/2 chicken liver, 1/4 lamb kidney, 1/4 lamb brain
Pm: chicken wing

Around 2-3oz per meal between them seems common. Yesterday I left them with 150g (approx 5oz) of chicken heart because I knew they liked it and I didn't want them to run out. They ate it all!

On Tuesday morning I gave them the half and half ground beef and chicken. I left 120g (about 4 oz) and 66g was left, so they ate almost 2oz. I'm going to see what happens with 3/4 beef today. I'll go back a step if this isn't received well. I'm also going to add some egg which they both love.

[FireAngel]

Looks great and yes you have come a long way with them on your own with the unofficial thread but I don't mind helping you wrap up the transition. Charlie and Opal are adorable. The quicker you can get different proteins for them the easier it will be to get them to eat it. They are def getting close to that age of imprinting.
I know Katt gave you a few little courses in your unofficial switch so if I give you the same, please feel free to just use the info as a refresher. Here is a little lesson on bacteria:
Credit to Machan, I literally just copied and pasted her hard work!

Bacteria & The Risks Of Raw Feeding

Carnivores, are built to handle a large amount of bacteria. They are carnivores so it makes sense that they should be able to handle bacteria.  Carnivores even contain bacteria in their guts (we call this "gut-flora") . Even us humans, contain bacteria in our guts.  Bacteria is everywhere, whether it be good bacteria or bad bacteria. Good bacteria aids digestion and even helps the body in many unique ways. Bad bacteria or even Normal bacteria may cause havoc by becoming overgrown, and begin competing with the good bacteria.

A good example: Air or bubbles in the bowel movements (stool) can mean that there is a gut or flora imbalance and that gas producing bacteria are overgrown and competing with the healthier flora.

For the case of this lesson, I am speaking more on the "negative/bad bacteria" side of things, since that is the main concern that we raw feeders are faced with when it comes to family, vets and so on. 

Back onto the topic of ferrets. They can handle a great deal of bacteria when it comes to diet, most are not susceptible to salmonella and efficiently pass it without infection and kibble fed ferrets are even known to shed salmonella in their stools.

A ferrets digestive system is very short (only 3-4 hours) so that leaves no time for the salmonella which needs 12-72 hours, or even e.coli, which needs 3-4 days (72 - 96 hours) to incubate. That makes it highly unlikely that these illnesses would affect the ferret. Its not impossible, just very very very very very very unlikely. If carnivores were not designed for handling a wide range of bacteria, we would be seeing a whole lot more issues not only in animals who are domesticated, but their wild counterparts also.

For more information in regards to Bacteria, I recommend you check out this file from HFF.
It is a long read, so you can read it when ever you would like to.

As for humans, the risk is there. When ever you are faced with the concerns about bacteria and raw feeding, its more humans that is the concerns, rather than the animal. However as long as you take simple precautions, it would be highly unlikely that you, or those around you would get sick.

To prevent any bacterial contamination, be sure to throughly clean anything that may come into contact with raw foods. Things such as: Shelves, Counter tops, Refrigerators, Freezers, Utensils, Sponges, Towels, etc.

It is especially important to wash all utensils and your hands with soap and hot water after handling one food and before handling another. This helps prevent cross-contamination in which, for example, bacteria in raw meat could be transferred to other foods, such as vegetables. It would be wise to use a different board for cutting different foods such as produce and meat. Wash cutting boards with hot, soapy water after each use; then rinse and air dry or pat dry with fresh paper towels.

Note: Do not use tea-towels or towels for drying as those are perfect for cross contamination and easily spread bacteria from one place to another.

Most raw feeders, feed human grade meat and as we all know already, Human grade meat is less likely to be contaminated with something like salmonella or E.coli than lets say, commercial raw pet food. Not saying it's 100% safe, because it can happen even with human grade, but human grade is a lot safer than pet grade because the handling and inspection of the meat intended for human consumption is a lot more strict.

A majority of the time, commercial raw pet food, is classed as pet grade meat. Forget the "Organic" this or "Human grade" that, If Its commercial pet food, its most likely containing pet grade pet food somewhere in it. 

“To date, raw pet foods have not been associated with salmonellosis in humans. ”

According to Dr. Becker, Pet owners have been feeding raw diets to their dogs and cats for decades, yet to date, not one documented case of raw pet food causing illness in humans has been reported.

[Deleted]

I managed to weigh the girls.
Opal: 818g
Charlotte: 750g

I went back through my transition thread. About a month ago, Opal was 722g and Charlie was 675g, so they've both put on a decent little bit of weight. The new diet must be doing them well

I got a couple of photos, but I'm going to keep trying for better ones until I get a chance to upload. They just don't stay still.

The beef/chicken mix went well today. I added some egg shell because I thought their poops have been a little soft. I also added a little salmon oil and put half a raw egg on top. I put in 120g (about 4oz). There was 44g left, so they ate over 3oz and half a raw egg between them. Both of them dived in this morning. I'll start leaving more over night because they'd finished and seemed hungry. Both were definitely licking up egg but I saw Opal take some chunks of ground meat and swallow them. I was pretty sure I saw Charlie eat some but it was hard for me to see if she was just having egg. Judging by the amount gone, I'd say I was right. Next time no chicken! Then I'll stop grinding it.

I will be trying to add variety again on Monday. That's pay day. I know where I can get lamb or kangaroo, but I'm going to follow up with the butcher about the quail because I really need more bone in meats. I'm also going to ask if he can get other types of heart.

Tonight they have about 5oz of turkey wing. That should be more than enough over night.

[Deleted]

I read the info you posted. It's really interesting. I'll be interested to see how people receive their diet. I haven't really spoken to all that many people about it yet. Living in Australia, almost none of the good kibbles are even available, so to me it was a no brainer. Prep has been a bit of work, but as they move to less ground and more and more chunks, it's getting easier to just pull a baggie out of the freezer for each meal. Being up to being able to set a menu is great too.

I think a really valid point is that's it's human grade. I have fed zero pet grade meats at this point. How is it different to handling the meat for human consumption?

[FireAngel]

There is no real difference in handling one vs the other. You will need to take the same sanitary measures for both, the difference is that you can't use the same food to prepare a meal for yourself lol
Normally I would only do one lesson a week but because you are so far into the switch already, I think I will just keep them coming for you.
Todays lesson is BONES!!!!
Bones are needed for a few things, Calcium, teeth health and helping to clean the intestines of a ferret. They stimulate blood flow which encouragse intestinal motility which promotes a health over all GI tract! Here are a few links and some information for you to read more about the incredible edible bone!

Bone in- meat with consumable bones. Some ferrets can handle larger bones, some will need small bones from the size of a chicken or smaller. Exceptions are neck and tail bones. Some ferrets CAN eat the weight bearing bones from things like rabbit and chicken, but most won't bother with them. It will sometimes work better if you smash the thigh/leg bones from chickens.
Good examples are: chicken necks/wings/spines, turkey wing tips/ribs/necks, duck wing tips/ribs/necks, pork rib ends/riblets, some will eat pork neck, most adult whole prey(rabbit/mice/rats/quail/gerbil/hamster/guinea pig).

Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/146/meat-bone-organ-weekly-menu#ixzz4IDl5oAKP

holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18359/smashing-bone-beginner-ferrets

holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/14397/effect-stomach-acid-discussion-thread

[Deleted]

It's been a pretty hectic few days. I had a chance to read the stuff on bones last night. I don't mind extra homework I love your evil little smiley too. The list of which parts they're able to eat was really helpful.

I was talking to my friend and when I mentioned duck, she reminded me our neighbor works for the processing place. I talked to him and told him I wanted wings and necks. He said they also bagged up the carcasses. He's going to find out what he can get and how much it costs for me on Monday. I imagine it's cheaper straight from then, and then he'll probably get a staff discount too, so that's pretty exciting.

I will also look for other new variety on Monday.

As for the girls, they're going pretty well. I gave the beef yesterday without chicken. I added a tiny bit of salmon oil and some egg shell. They actually ended up eating the full 4oz I put out, so I'm pretty happy with that. I didn't grind every chunk out, so there was a few larger pieces. Next time I think I can just cut it up some.

Organs still aren't a favourite. I gave the liver, kidney, heart mix the other day. I gave 2oz heart, 1oz liver,, 1oz kidney. I actually cut the kidney into little pieces and put that in a couple of hours before the rest. They ate a little of it, but definitely don't love it. I added the rest of the meal. All the heart was, of course, eaten. What was left later was a mix of liver and kidney about equally. I think it was only about 15g ish. I did weigh it but didn't write it down which is clever.

Today they have the liver, brain, kidney mix, so we'll see how that goes.

[FireAngel]

THat's awesome, they are doing grea! Organs are often a hard sell lol. I find with mine it is easier to just make the mix into a soupie. This helps me know ,no one is picking out all their favorite parts. I have 4 eating from the bowl so for me it just works better. It is good to keep trying pieces though.
Next lesson is a short one,
EGGS
The incredible edible egg is not only good for us but for our little beasties also. One whole egg (shell included) is a complete meal for them. We often use a raw egg scrambled up to help with passing fur through their digestive system. The rule is one egg per ferret per week or two eggs during shedding season. Quail eggs are smaller so they can have up to three of these a week if you are able to find them.

That's it, questions?

[Deleted]

It's been such a busy few weeks. I keep thinking of posting here when I'm busy and then when I have a bit of time, I don't remember to.

Eggs: mine love them, so that's great! I have chickens too, so most of the time their eggs aren't more than a few days old. I was interested to read the bit about a complete meal. I didn't realize they could get so much out of them. When I've seen discussions, I've often read comments like "they come out the same way they went in". I guess that lead me to believe they weren't digesting much and it's mostly just a hair ball preventative. I've made egg shell powder for putting in soup, but when I feed the egg with a meal I haven't been including shell. Should I be giving them that too?

Today was an organ day again. I did what you suggested and just made a soup. At least this way I know they aren't just picking out hearts, and I know they're both getting a balance. I gave about 120g plus half an egg and a little salmon oil. There was about 11g left plus a tiny bit more I found in the cage later (how she managed to stash soup I have no idea). I'm pretty happy with that. It's a similar amount to an average meal for them. Sometimes they eat more, but that's not an unusual amount, so I'd say the soup was a success.

I rely on other people for shopping because I don't drive. Due to extra work shifts for them etc it's been a bit harder than usual to go shopping,, so I haven't been able to get more variety yet. I really hope I will in the next couple of days. We've stagnated a bit and I'm really keen to keep moving them forward.

Oh and I made a dog food order and included some treats finally! I got freeze dried turkey, chicken, and lamb hearts. They loved the heart but aren't keen on the turkey yet. I didn't open the chicken yet. I've given them some of those plastic Easter eggs with tiny pieces in them, but it's going to take them practice I think.

[FireAngel]

THis is great! you can include the shells, some will eat them some will not but if they do not eat the shell it is not considered a complete meal.
I order most of my stuff online for the ferrets. I use Rodent Pro and Hare Today Gone Tomorrow. It has been 2 years and I have not had any issues with either company. You do have to order in a bit of bulk though but this may be easier on you then having to count on someone to take you around shopping.
Lesson time! Today's lesson will be on organs!
So we know that ferrets need 10% of their diet to be organs but do you know what organs are?
Lets start with liver, liver should make up half of all organ consumption. It is high in vitamin A and C and in the mineral iron. When a ferret is feed liver as part of a meal their bowel movements are often a dark almost black color due to the iron content and on the looser side (looser BM's are true for any organ meat and also for plain muscle meat meals). Do not panic when you see a very dark and or looser stool after an organ meal but do keep on eye on the stools to be sure it goes back to normal.
The other half should be the most varied combination of hormone secreting organs that you can get your hands on. The reason for this is simple, every organ has a different benefit to it based on the hormones it secretes. Examples of secreting organs are; spleen, kidney, brain, pancreas, thymus, thyroid, parathyroid, testicles/ovaries/uterus, gallbladder and green tripe. Most ferrets will not eat the green tripe (unprocessed stomach, but if yours will wooohoooo! (dance) That is great!)
Now that we know what an organ meal should consist of lets do some math (I know it is so exciting! ) Just as an easy example if a ferret eats 2oz meals and you are feeding the frankenprey diet model then in one week you need to feed 1+1/2 meals of organs. So 1/2 will be liver and the other 1/2 will be other organ, this means that you will feed 1oz of liver and 1oz other organ for one meal and for the other meal that is only half (we usually combine this with the 1/2 heart meal to make a whole meal) you would give 1/2oz liver and 1/2oz other (that wasn't so hard now was it?! )
You can read more here also, Organs
That is the end of this lesson, please don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have about it! :thumbsup:

[Deleted]

Thanks for the tips. More organ variety is definitely on the list. I have liver, brain and kidney so far. And yes I definitely have the goopy black poops that are just lovely.

Today I got kangaroo mince! I bought the ground meat because it was cheaper and because I figure I'll have to grind it to start with anyway. I'll buy pieces another time. So I'll probably start introducing that tomorrow and that will take me up to 5 proteins (chicken, turkey, beef, pork, kangaroo).

I do have one question I meant to ask yesterday. When I do the pseudo bone in meal with the chicken feet, how much of each would you use? I've been doing half feet , half muscle meat, so for example, last night I gave 2oz chicken feet and 2oz pork belly. Is that ok or should I do more or less feet?

[FireAngel]

I would do closer to 3 oz of the feet and 1 oz of meat but I will also highly encourage you to get chicken wings or necks ASAP and switch them to an actual bone in meal.
Can't wait to hear how they do with the kangaroo!
Credit to Machan for this, I lterally just copied and pasted her hard work!
Time for a short lesson for today!
This lesson is on Taurine, a very important nutrient for our ferrets.
Read it in your spare time~

Taurine & Cooked Meat

Taurine, an organic acid which is found in all animal tissues, is not degraded by the freeze-thaw process when it comes to raw meats, however it is degraded when it is cooked or exposed to heat of some kind.

Cooked Meat

Feeding cooked meat, especially if you have made it homemade is a huge risk to your obligate carnivore since Taurine is essential for your ferrets overall health and is lost during the cooking process. Cooking in general causes a loss in many nutrients. Enzymes are destroyed by cooking.
 Digestive enzymes are produced primarily in the pancreas and released into the duodenum to help digest food coming from the stomach. However since Digestive enzymes are destroyed during cooking, the chore is left to the intestines or the pancreas themselves to secrete amylase and other digestive enzymes.  Enzymes are important. They don’t just help to digest the food – they are living proteins that help repair DNA, make hormones, prevent clotting and so on. Eating a diet of cooked and processed foods would put incredible stress on our ferret's bodies. The pancreas in particular, since it has to produce massive quantities of digestive enzymes after consuming a food that is devoid of enzymes.
 Long term consumption of a diet consisting of completely cooked meat can lead to alot of over worked organs, which can then lead to very horrible diseases. This does not mean that you cannot feed cooked meat though. It is recommended to be only a treat, not something that is the entire diet.  Never feed cooked bones to your ferrets as they can pose a serious risk. Once the bone in meat has gone through the cooking process, it can remove the nutritional value of the meat and the bones become more brittle, increasing the risk of splintering.

Fun fact: Most mammals produce amylase in the saliva, but dogs, cats and ferrets do not. Amylase helps with predigestion, and since a majority of carnivores simply bite off chunks and swallow, they do not have any need for amylase in the saliva.

Can Ferrets synthesise Taurine?

Obligate carnivores are not able to synthesise all the taurine they need from other amino acids (such as methionine and cysteine) unlike some other carnivores and unlike herbivores or omnivores.  This means that it is essential to their diet and must be fed to the ferret.

What is the role of Taurine?

Taurine is a major constituent of bile and can be found in the large intestine. Taurine has many fundamental biological roles, such as conjugation of bile acids, anti-oxidation, osmoregulation, membrane stabilisation, and modulation of calcium singling. It is essential for cardiovascular function, and development and function of skeletal muscle, the retina, and the central nervous system.

Is Taurine an Amino Acid?

Taurine is unusual among biological molecules in being a sulfonic acid, while the vast majority of biologically occurring acids contain the more weakly acidic carboxyl group. While taurine is sometimes called an amino acid, and indeed is an acid containing an amino group, it is not an amino acid in the usual biochemical meaning of the term, which refers to compounds containing both an amino and a carboxyl group.

What may happen if Taurine is not in the diet?

A diet that does not have enough taurine can cause the heart to stretch and enlarge (dilated cardiomyopathy). This can lead to congestive heart failure and in worse cases, death. In the eye, a low taurine diet can cause blindness from central retinal degeneration.
In order for any issue to arise, a Deficiency must drag on for a certain length time. It may take months, it may take years, it all depends on the ferret. 

Can I feed too much Taurine?

Taurine is a water soluble nutrient, so that makes it incredibly rare that a ferret would overdose on Taurine. If a ferret eats something and there is too much taurine in it, the excess is simply excreted VIA urine.

I will give you another lesson on Water Soluble and Fat Soluble Vitamins another day.

So where can Taurine be found? 

The main source of Taurine for our ferrets in the Frankenprey menu is Hearts. Taurine can also be found in other types of meat, but hearts are essential to insure they get an appropriate amount of Taurine in their diet. If you cannot find hearts or need another option, brain, and tongue also have a high amount of Taurine. Raw (beef) tongue is also the next best option to hearts as it is very high in Taurine. In fact, Tongue has a higher amount of Taurine than that of Heart and is also quite fatty. Beef tongue is a good option if you can find it or if it is in your budget.



If you cannot locate a Heart, or Tongue, Supplementing with a Taurine powder can be used short term until you can find alternative sources for Taurine. A health food store should have Taurine powder. It may be handy to have stored away for emergencies.
This thread has some good information on Supplementing with Taurine Powder/Capsules.
 holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/13404/little-education-on-taurine

[Deleted]

I haven't read the information yet, I just wanted to reply to the first part first. I have chicken wings at the moment. The feet meal was only an attempt to get more variety in the bone in meals as I only have chicken and turkey so far. I was only using the feet as one or two meals. I've also had necks, but am out at the moment.

[FireAngel]

No worries, bone in meals tend to be harder to get in a variety of protienns for. There are not many that are easy for them to chew and digest. I use duck necks and chicken necks or wings. I also feed a heavily whole prey diet so that helps with bones and variety. Quails are also a good choice for bone in meals if you can find them.