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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 22:05:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 1:55:33 GMT -5
I have a short quiz for you~ Open book so you can google or check out the HFF website or forum.
Q1- It is recommended for optimal health that a a minimum of 3 different proteins is needed in the diet. At least one of the minimum 3 proteins needs to be something other than.... what?
Q2- In raw feeding, Is it possible to feed ANY type of meat? (explain.)
Q3- Which of the following are NOT organs in raw feeding. Liver, Tongue, Kidney, Spleen, Gizzard, Pancreas, Gallbladder, Brain, Heart, Thymus, Uterus.
Q4- What can bone in meat tell us about ferret stools?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 2:29:35 GMT -5
I felt stupid for forgetting the stuff we were supposed to take. We had pumpkin and organs set aside to take with us and we forgot them both. Bah. Came home to a fridge smelling like nasty old organs, it was gross. The day we left our power went out so we were rushing to get it fixed and pack the car and I forgot some stuff that wasn't in my immediate vicinity. Bit me later.
I'll go ahead and post their weekly update now since the other was late and I'm trying to get them back to a reasonable schedule again: 1. Ferret's name: Mei 2. Ferret's weight: 1 lb 8 oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. Mei has been eating about one oz on her own. 4. Stools on various proteins: Organ poops are liquidy with a strong odor, non-organ meal days solid with minimal smell. 5. Activity levels: Normal
1. Ferret's name: Max 2. Ferret's weight: 3 lbs 4 oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 4-5 oz. Max tends to eat everything that Mei does not. 4. Stools on various proteins. Same as Mei. 5. Activity levels: Normal
Monday Am - Chicken wings Pm - Duck Tuesday Am - Cornish Hen Pm - Turkey Gizzards Wednesday Am - Duck Pm - Chicken Hearts Thursday Am - Chicken wings Pm - Duck Friday Am - Cornish Hen Pm - Beef heart, beef liver, beef pancreas Saturday Am - Duck pm - Turkey Gizzards Sunday Am - Chicken wings Pm - Beef liver, beef pancreas Can they eat lamb ribs? They looked small enough for them to eat but I didn't know if they'd be too thick or not. Almost forgot: I also found pigs feet but I didn't know what they counted as. I'll alter their menu as needed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 3:12:58 GMT -5
I passed the emergency kit information on to Lance, since he can find nearly all of that stuff being in nursing school. I was also wondering what subcutaneous fluids are, exactly. Like, I know it's for hydration and it's given like an IV but that's about it.
Q1- It is recommended for optimal health that a a minimum of 3 different proteins is needed in the diet. At least one of the minimum 3 proteins needs to be something other than.... what? Foul? Like white meat? I'm not really sure what you're asking, like it should be white and red meats I think? So other than white meats there must also be red meat for better balance and variety.
Q2- In raw feeding, Is it possible to feed ANY type of meat? No, like they can eat human grade meats but I wouldn't take a mouse out of a mousetrap and throw it to them. Enhanced meat shouldn't be given. The closer you can get to meat that is at it's most natural form is best. Feeder mice work from reputable sources and any fresh killed food should be frozen to make it safe to consume. They can also eat certain types of fish, preferably low mercury but land dwelling animals are preferred to meet their nutritional needs.
Q3- Which of the following are NOT organs in raw feeding. Liver, Tongue, Kidney, Spleen, Gizzard, Pancreas, Gallbladder, Brain, Heart, Thymus, Uterus. Tongue, gizzard, and heart are muscle meats not organs.
Q4- What can bone in meat tell us about ferret stools? If a ferret has loose stools after a bone in meal they may need more bone for the bone or muscle meal, but if they continue to have loose stools they may have an underlying problem. Bone helps make their poop more solid so if they are having constipation or dry poop they'll need some oil or less bone meals depending on the specific ferrets needs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 3:14:29 GMT -5
Oh goodness. I can only imagine how bad the organs would have smelled. Beef ribs may be a little too dense for ferrets. If you can locate something like Pork button bones & rib ends, or Frogs legs, those too make great bone in meat options. Frogs legs can be found usually at Asian grocers. Your menu does look really good! I think you're so close to graduating at this stage.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 5:50:19 GMT -5
I passed the emergency kit information on to Lance, since he can find nearly all of that stuff being in nursing school. I was also wondering what subcutaneous fluids are, exactly. Like, I know it's for hydration and it's given like an IV but that's about it. Subcutaneous is an injection route, given into the fat layer between the skin and muscle. Hence the name Subcutaneous in Subcutaneous Fluids. They are mainly given subcutaneously for animals since that is most easiest. Subcutaneous fluid is primarily made up of about 95% water and usually has 5% dextrose and 0.8% saline added. They are often used to prevent or treat dehydration in animals and even in humans. Usually when mild dehydration hits, animals may not be able to drink enough water to properly hydrate themselves, and so the SC/SQ or Sub-Q Fluids are often required. Smild dehydration. Sub-Q Fluids are slow absorbed, so There is a good article here, and here on SQ fluids. For education purposes, here are some videos about giving SQ Fluids. I may have made the questions below a little difficult, sorry! You have done really well considering though! When I say proteins, > Proteins = Species. However variety with mixture of red/white meats is still a good answer. Here's the answer:For optimal health a minimum (more is preferable) of 3 different proteins need to be in the diet. At least one of the minimum 3 proteins needs to be something other than: chicken, rabbit, cornish game hen or fish. This is to ensure enough Vit B, iron and a good base of taurine in the diet (most taurine comes from the heart in the diet however). Fantastic answer! Where we source our meats is absolutely important and yes, the answer is not all meat is appropriate for ferrets. Just as you mention, feeding wild rodents is risky. There is so many "what if's" when it comes to wild rodents. Some may carry who knows what, anything from parasites, to rodenticide. It is also said to avoid feeding carnivores, such as bear, fox, wild boar. Reason is Biomagnification. Biomagnification refers to the increased concentration of a toxic chemical the higher an animal is on the food chain.
Good example is mercury from fish like mentioned. Some carnivores (and some omnivores, eg wild boar) may also carry Trichinella spiralis. Trichinella spiralis is freeze resistant. It really depends on where in the world the meat is sourced from as well as Trichinella may not be an issue for everyone. Other wild caught meat can be frozen for a minimum of 2 weeks to kill any parasites and what not. Good job with your answer, I'm very happy with it. Very good!! Those are very correct! Great answer! You're correct, Loose stools tends to mean they may need more bone in their diet and Dry/Chalky/Seedy stools may indicate a bone heavy diet that may require less bone and/or more muscle. Raw egg is also a fantastic natural "laxative" for ferrets. It may help slightly with a constipated ferret. I also love that you included the potential for underlying problems. That really is something to keep in mind as well. Good examples would be bacterial overgrowths in the ferret gut causing diarrhea, or dry/seedy and thin/tiny stills which could indicate a potential blockage. Ferret stools in general can tell us so much about a ferret. Great work on those answers. I'm quite happy with how well you answered them even though I may have made the first a little difficult. Great job!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 16:56:29 GMT -5
Thank you, I've learned so much! I feel really good about the ferrets and their health, I actually feel like a competent ferrent instead of dazed and horribly confused like I had been in the beginning, haha.
I'd actually asked about lamb ribs and not beef ribs. I know beef ribs are huge but the lamb ribs were considerably smaller so I thought maybe they'd be small enough for them to eat. I wanted to ask first though since I wasn't sure. I edited it after to ask about what pigs feet would count as but I think I edited it after you read it. Haven't found any pork bone-in yet, unfortunately.
Also, it snowed! The ferrets got to experience snow for the first time. We brought some in in a plastic tub and Mei loved it but Max freaked out very time he touched it lol. I rolled a snowball to Mei and she bit into it and when she left I noticed there was a baby tooth in it! The next night the litter box was peppered with little teeth. I was wondering why she got so bitey all of a sudden, it was probably all those new adult teeth coming in. I figured I'd never see a single one and now I have the one from the snowball in a keepsake box cause I'm sentimental like that.
I was upset, though, because when I went to check Max's ears (Mei won't let me see in hers so I have to torment my poor chubby boy) I noticed it looks like they have earmites again. I don't know where they're getting them from. I figured either the confused nurses who knew very little about ferrets gave them the Revolution wrong and the mites never cleared up fully OR the source is one of our parents houses and that means I have a much bigger problem because now I have to convince two different families to take a sum of seven pets to the vet. Gah! I need to make an appointment for mine and get the wax tested to make sure it is mites again before I do anything...I was considering doing the olive oil in the ear treatment I'd read about but I know very little about it and wasn't sure. Have you ever used oil for ears? Would it smother the mites and then they just lick the stuff out? Gross but I can only do Revolution or oil since the Revolution is toxic and I don't need them licking each other with that in.
Sorry for the novel! It's like super update day.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 20:05:10 GMT -5
You are indeed a competent ferrent! It is really great that you are learning little things here and there. We're all dazed and confused when we start out but you gradually begin to adjust and understand. You'll never know when you may need that information in future for Mei and Max. ;u; Oh Lamb ribs! Those too may be a little too dense for ferrets. I tried lamb shanks once- my cleaver couldn't even get through them! Pigs feets also may be too dense. Ferrets would probably just eat the meat around the dense bones rather than attempt to eat the bone itself. I hear the pig feet or trotters make good treats under supervision but they don't really eat the bones, so it wouldn't be worth purchasing them. Poultry tends to make the best bone in meats. Along with wholeprey items. Are you interested in trying wholeprey? (eg, pre-killed frozen/thawed rats, mice.) I'm so envious of you guys getting snow! It's been hot for me this week since it's summer. I'm sure Mei and Max had a very interesting experience with the snow. I love hearing about first time reactions. Ferrets make me giggle. Do you have a photo of the baby tooth? I've never seen one so I would love to see what they look like outside of the jaws of a ferret hahah! I'm also sorry to hear about possible earmites again. Those nasty little things can be quite difficult to get rid of. I'm very iffy with using any oils or ear cleaners with ferrets. Ears are sensitive things so we really shouldn't be putting in anything we shouldn't. I'd be worried about them going and damaging the ear drum or canal. Olive oil in my opinion is best avoided as it is plant based. When people mention using oil for ears, they really mean on the outside of the ear rather than on the inside. You could potentially put oil on the outside of the ear lightly, and allow the ferrets to groom eachother. I've never done this, It sounds gross haha!! I do hope that it isn't earmites. Do you clean the ears on a regular basis? I tend to do mine every week to two weeks at best. My Beavis had a horrible earmite infestation before I got him which caused a head tilt so I've been so on top when it comes to his ears. Oils cannot kill or eradicate pests like earmites. An anti parasitic is best to counter the issue. Sometimes you may need to do another round just to be sure you killed all the ear mites. I would recommend having the vet have a look again, treat if needed, and then follow up with a vet visit to ensure all are gone. You're also welcome to write a novel if you would like. I really don't mind. In fact I enjoy the reading and love hearing about Mei and Max.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 22:29:11 GMT -5
Dang, I was hoping those would work. The search continues! If I had an external freezer I would consider using mice/rats but all I have is my tiny fridge freezer and I'm just too grossed out by the thought of having rodents alongside my ice cream to do it. I'm hoping to get a small external freezer eventually and then I'll start searching for wholeprey sources and if it works out right I'll switch them over. It may not be until we move out of our current apartment, though. Hopefully the next treatment will be the last. Poor kids need a break from vet visits. I usually clean Max's ears once a week and Mei's whenever she'll let me. She twists around so I can only blindly wipe whatever I can get before she panics and I have to let her go. She's getting better, though. I'm hoping it's just harsh wax buildup and not mites but I'm never that lucky >_>' I wish it was a sharper image, but the tooth was so small I couldn't get my phone to focus on it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 1:35:00 GMT -5
Don't worry! You'll find something for a Bone in meat source. When I started I had to use a fridge/freezer with roommates so having wholeprey was very ... odd and they didn't particularly like it. I found having an air tight container worked quite well for hiding them at the time. Wholeprey makes a wonderful addition to the frankenprey diet for ferrets, If you do decide on doing it in the future then fantastic for you and Mei and Max. You may find they would require some little transitioning but after that ferrets tend to adjust quite well to new wholeprey items. I hope that everything is all good ear wise. Have you looked at Max and Mei's mouth/gums/teeth? It always helps to make sure everything is okay in the mouth. If the tooth begins to erupt from the gums, it can be a little sore.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 5:23:39 GMT -5
So recap of earlier when we messaged you on Facebook: Mei got up in their cage and was in the tunnel with Max. She started chewing and scratching and I was concerned maybe she was cutting a tooth and her mouth was sore. Lance went to get her out since she was kind of pacing and when we got her on the couch we realized something was in her mouth. I tried to see what it was but I couldn't figure it out. It was white and jammed in the corner of her mouth. Then she started to panic, gagging and clawing at her face in an attempt to get it out. We managed to scruff her and Lance got a hold of it but it was stuck firmly and he wasn't sure if he should pull it out or not. He said it felt hard, so I guess it was bone? It's odd because they had gizzards for dinner since their poops had been a bit dry. So Mei was heavily salivating, panicking, and trying to chew/claw whatever it was out of her mouth. I could hear it crunching and she was chewing so hard I could see her skull move with the effort. I started to really freak out myself when she began actively sticking our fingers in her mouth. She wasn't biting us, it was like she was trying to get us to get it out for her. She would grind it against my finger like she was trying to get leverage. That was when we messaged you, cause it's 4am here and we were starting to get worried she'd somehow badly hurt her mouth. We got her calmed down and she laid in my lap grinding her jaw. Once she finally calmed down enough to just relax and chew she must have dislodged it on her own. She stopped chewing and just laid there squinting her eyes while I petted her. We checked her mouth and we didn't see any trace of it. There wasn't any blood or missing teeth in that place either. We put her to bed for now. We'll giver her a chance to rest and unwind and check her again in the morning. So we got the monthly emergency out of the way early...I'm trying to decide if I should give her to blockage stuff currently. I'm fairly positive it must have been a breakfast bone she stashed and pulled out. Now We're going to go pass out for the night
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 5:32:04 GMT -5
Oh Mei! How scary! I don't blame you guys at all for freaking out. I did hear about this from lance. I'm happy that she's alright now. It really does sound like she may have gotten some bone stuck in her mouth. Maybe she stashed a bit of her last bone in meat meal and got to it?
I've experienced this once before with my littlest girl Haru. Haru managed to get some bone stuck in between the back teeth and couldn't get it out. I managed to get it out for her without getting my fingers bitten off by mistake.
It does sound like Mei must have been a little stressed afterwards when she relaxed. Phew! I'd be the same.
You guys have a good sleep. ;u; Check on Mei in the morning, at least now you can rest easy since she no longer has it stuck in her mouth.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 6:33:03 GMT -5
Could you post the weekly questionnaire please?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 15:41:17 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay, Mei was throwing up last night after their playtime. We put them back in to finish their dinner and they were eating when she just kind of started heaving a puking a clear, frothy mucus everywhere. She threw up five times then wanted me to hold her while she slept. I tried to give her pumpkin but she panicked and started heaving so I let her just sleep and decided I'd see how she looked in the morning. I'll see if she eats breakfast and if not I'll blockage protocol her...I'm fairly positive she choked herself on her food so she should be okay. She isn't acting like she did when she ate something wrong, just seemed kind of sick. I'm watching Max too in case it's some kind of virus. 1. Ferret's name: Mei 2. Ferret's weight: 1 lb 9 oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. Mei has been eating about one oz on her own. 4. Stools on various proteins: Organ poops are liquidy with a strong odor, non-organ meal days solid with minimal smell. Mei is having stress poops currently from being sick last night, but is still going. 5. Activity levels: Normal 1. Ferret's name: Max 2. Ferret's weight: 3 lbs 5 oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 4-5 oz. Max tends to eat everything that Mei does not. 4. Stools on various proteins. Same as Mei minus the stress poops. 5. Activity levels: Normal Monday Am - Duck Pm - Cornish Hen Tuesday Am - Chicken Wings Pm - Turkey Gizzards Wednesday Am - Duck Pm - Chicken Hearts Thursday Am - Cornish Hen Pm - Duck Friday Am - Chicken Wings Pm - Beef heart, beef liver, beef pancreas Saturday Am - Duck pm - Turkey Gizzards Sunday Am - Chicken wings Pm - Beef liver, beef pancreas Congrats on the new floof! He looks like such a baby, so cute. I'm glad the business accepted their new intern.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 20:12:08 GMT -5
Poor Mei! I hope she feels better soon. It really sounds like she's had another eventual time. She really does her herself into mischief doesn't she? Clear frothy mucouse does sound like she may have swallowed something the wrong way. How is she now? Your menu is looking great as usual! Any luck finding any new bone in meat proteins? Oh, did you ever find out if the asian store had the quail? I remember you mentioned it a while ago. Either way, I think the menu is looking super. I think you have a good grasp on creating menus now. Thank you! I was suppose to update that thread Kelsey aka Aftershock created for the floof shower hahaha. I haven't gotten around to spamming photos on here yet. He's 11 weeks or so. Almost 12 weeks. Full of energy and troublesome as kits should be. They are so fun, I've been on my feet with him. We also finally decided to call him Shunji. ^^
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