Self-Starting Raw Feeding Diary for Kai

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While I am waiting to get a mentor, and as I have already been feeding Kai a raw diet for three weeks, I thought it would be helpful for me (and I hope others too!) if I kept a diary of what I am feeding her, and the experiences I am encountering along the way here.

Today for her morning meal Kai had 1.7 oz. (47g) of chicken back cut into large (1 in.) chunks.
I believe this counts for one bone-in meal as long as she actually injests the bones.

Kai does not like her food cold, directly from the fridge. She likes to wait 20-30 minutes so the chill comes off the food before eating, and she still likes it when I bring the first chunk to her mouth. I let her take a few nibbles and place it in her bowl. I do this right in front of her bowl most of the time, and she will self-feed after this until she is done. She knows where her food bowl is, and when she is being fed, but even though she comes and sniffs the food in the bowl herself she doesn't seem to want to eat it most of the time unless I place it in my hand and place it in front of her first. Sometimes she likes to take a break halfway through her meal; she did this for this meal.

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P.S. Thanks abbeytheferret6 for the idea to start this thread!

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Kai's dinner last night was 1.3 oz. (36.85 g) minced beef eye round with 1 chicken heart, also minced, an 1/8 tsp. Wysong Ferret Omega-3 Spectrum supplement, and 1/8 tsp. powdered egg shell.

I minced the beef because when I have tried to serve the beef to her in small chunks she
absolutely would not eat it - even if I mixed in another protein source. Tonight she ate
everything,and rather quickly too. Nothing was left. I got duped with her breakfast: she stashed two chunks and left behind mainly the bone, and that is why I included the eggshell powder into her PM meal.

Today for breakfast I served her about a T. of chicken liver and about a tsp. of chicken heart with an egg yolk.

I guess this didn't go over too well. Justin thought I forgot to feed her (as if!), and he busted out the Wysong Ferret Epigen 90 kibble. I wasn't too happy about that, and asked him to give her an egg yolk next time. So what happened to her AM meal? Well... I found it mixed in with her bedding - along with her dish that she upturned out of its holder. I have to say I was surprised because this is a meals she has always enjoyed. She especially likes the egg, and that is why I mix the liver with it (she's not a huge fan of the liver and will not eat it on its own). Anywho, the bedding has been washed, and her dinner is being prepared. By the way, she hasn't had any kibble at all in about two weeks, and I've read that if you are going to combine a kibble and raw diet you should wait at least three hours in between each food source. Being that it has been about eight hours now I think everything should be okay.

So, Dinner: 1.2 oz. (34 g) chicken back in medium chunks with 1/8 tsp. Wysong Ferret Omega-3 Spectrum supplement.

Dinner went relatively well. I placed the chicken back chunks in Kai's serving dish and placed it in her playpen. She knew it was there, but as I mentioned earlier she doesn't care for her food when it is just-from-the-fridge cold. After about twenty minutes I re-introduced her to her dinner. She meandered a bit, but did eat within 30 minutes - everything but the bone that is. She likes to leave that part behind - at least the larger pieces. I took one of the remaining bones in my fingertips and put it in front of her nose and mouth. She grasped on, and took it away, gnawed on it for a bit, and put it back down. I took the remaining bones, broke them into smaller pieces, and again offered them to her. She seemed more willing, and in the end - after about an hour-and-a-half - the few remains of her PM meal were taken away, and she came out to play! She did not eat all of the bone, but almost. There was a piece stashed in her little hide-away hut; all that remained was .2 oz. (6 g). I think she did pretty good tonight.

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This is a diary of Kai's, and let's be honest, my own introduction to the raw ferret diet. I have chosen the frankenprey method, and it's really not that complicated for me - especially since I have been living with Type I diabetes since I was six years old: I'm used to weighing, measuring, counting my food out, and planning meals ahead of time. SO, it's different, and a learning process, but I'm not afraid of it, and I know it can be done. Furthermore, I know the better I learn to method the healthier little Miss Kai will be!

I've been reading some of the mentor threads, and they are very helpful. I feel as if I am doing a good job with Kai so far, but I look forward to being mentored for sure - certain things just require a guide, and a more knowledgeable and experienced head than my own in this endeavor.

I have been paying attention to Kai's poops, but perhaps not enough. I do know that when we first began her raw diet her poops were somewhat seedy. I haven't seen them be too loose, or too solid. I haven't seen any blood, or drastic discoloration. Perhaps a few of her stools have been somewhat tarry. I guess I need to pay more attention. Kai isn't necessarily litter trained, but she is different from my other ferrets in that she prefers to poop in two specific corners, and only when she is enclosed in either her house, or her playpen. She has only pooped in a corner once when she has been roaming the ferret-proof rooms where we let her roam in the house, and I think this is a bit odd, but I'm not going to complain! She does like to poop in her rice box though, and I think that's a bit strange too 'cause that's one of her favorite places to play, or take a ferret nap. But that is so easy to clean-up - way easier than trying to get a hardened stool from off the corner of a tile floor. I swear sometimes I think ferrets have a superglue component in their poop! And actually I've been debating switching to (news)paper rather than a box for Kai because it seems so much easier to dispose of on a daily basis. The weekly free paper comes tomorrow, and I believe I am going to try this method. Shall see how it goes...?!?!

Called Dona at the Broward Ferret Rescue on Sunday to let her know we were still looking to get Kai a companion. She said she's looking out for us. I'm really not all that particular, but I would prefer a ferret more her age so that they can form a firmer bond, and hopefully live together for most of their lives. I do feel that Kai really does need a companion of her own kind soon though. I mean the kitties are happy to have her, and the puppy can't get enough of her antics, but I believe it is important for her to have a companion who can withstand her fierce nips with better understanding. There is no doubt that our family are all appreciative and loving toward one another; nevertheless, I almost can't wait for Kai to have a playmate who relates to her own instincts, and plus I wish to provide a happy and loving home to another disadvantaged fuzzie. It's a little bit selfish, true, but not too much I don't think. Justin and I love all our babies with all our hearts - we always have, and we always will.

More Life Awaits,
For Those Who Do Not Wait For Life To Happen.

Jeez, this is a focused diary of thought and emotions, and emotions and thoughts with regard to all my fuzzlets, but with Kai being the focal point.

Switching to a raw diet has not been unduly difficult for Kai and I so far, but it does require persistence and patience for sure. True love is also mandatory I believe. So, following yesterday morning's debacle of a meal I am trying basically the same meal again. Foolish maybe, but I don't think so - at least not now. We shall see what happens tomorrow! I'm going to try to spend more time with her and her meal before I have to leave for work. I hope this will be successful. To make sure I have time for this self-prescribed endeavor...

I prepped tomorrow's AM meal tonight. And I prepped the same ingredients in a slightly different form. Slightly being the key word here. Here's what I've done:

1 T chicken heart (.5 oz / 10 g)
1 T chicken liver (.5 oz /10 g)
2 tsp. beef baby food
1 egg yolk

Pulsed in food processor - not a soup or a mince, but a "soupy" chunk; somewhat like a loose pate I guess. No added liquid.

The AM meal is fast approaching, and I need to find my way to sleep. Kai's cuddled in her hammock with a soft, small knitted blankie; Blu is cuddled within the pillows on the bed, Twinkie is happy for the moment in her room, but as soon as I hit the bed she will too; and Freckles is roaming the neighborhood and being obstinate about not coming in for bedtime much to my dismay. Oh Dear! Let me go see if he'd like to come in tonight to sleep (or play) - I hope so, Here Goes.

'Till Tomorrow -

Peace Out

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The diary continues!

So, the chicken heart, chicken liver, beef baby food, and egg yolk mixture did not fly with Kai. I don't believe that she ate any of it.

For dinner she I served her four large chunks of pork loin weighing in at 1.9 oz. (53.8 g). I know that may seems like a lot, and perhaps it was, but I was worried because she hadn't eaten her AM meal. She ended up eating three of the four chunks, and I was happy with that. So that was a good muscle meal in my opinion.

Originally I was only leaving her food out for about two hours, but I'm finding if I leave it out longer she will eat it in stages, and this seems to be more comfortable for her.

For dinner tonight we tried something new - turkey neck. I served on half of the turkey neck, or 1.6 oz. (45 g). SO far she have gnawed on it a bit, and moved it around quite a lot. We shall see what happens. Hopefully she eats this because I really need her to start eating more bone-in meals.

[abbeytheferret6]

I am wondering how people serve turkey necks like crushed wih a hammer or just like they are? It Would be nice to get some feedback on that---since i do not serve them, I can't advise.

[FireAngel]

I use turkey necks sometimes, and even with my experienced bone eaters I still use a cleaver and chop them small. I do the same for duck necks. Chicken necks they handle fine the other 2 are a bit more dense and a little help is needed for them.
@missmo you are off to a good start. Kia doesn't need the baby food though and beef is often harder to get them to eat because it has a stronger flavor. I would keep working on getting to take cheap cuts of beef pieces though. A red meat should be had once a week.
Easy to eat bones for beginners are quail and Cornish game hen, also chicken wings are a good starter.
Here are time frames for how long things can be left out for, always trust your nose though and know that ferrets are known to know when things have turned and will not eat it anyway.

Raw soupie is good for 6-8 hours
Muscle meats up to 12 hours
Bone In meats up to 24 hours
Whole prey is good for 48 hours.
Most of us feed twice a day so things are usually only left out a max or about 12 hours anyway.

[raynebc]

I chop turkey necks at points where the vertebrae meet, and then chop it into smaller wedges from there. Takes a bit of work, but the ferrets like it.

[Deleted]

Thank you for the input! I actually did feed the turkey neck without manipulating it at all (besides cutting it directly in half vertically, and I thought it seemed a little tough, but I tried it. Well she just kept carrying it around, nibbling and gnawing here and there, but this morning it still looked pretty much the same as it did when I gave it to her for dinner. Next time I'm going to break it up a bit as has been suggested. I can find a lot of different raw meat sources where I live, but chicken necks seem to be evading me. I thought I'd try the turkey necks because they were available (in the freezer section), and also because she hasn't had turkey yet.

Okay, no more baby food. She doesn't really like it anyway, and I was just hoping to cajole her into eating the liver by including it - to no avail! Hoping to get Kai to actually intake a much-needed bone-in meal, I fed her chicken back for breakfast. I didn't weigh it because I was running a little behind this morning, but I imagine it was between 1 1/2 - 2 oz. (42.5 - 56.5 g) as it was the same general size I have been feeding her. Again, she ate most of it, but still left a little more bone than I think is good for her.

Tonight for dinner I will serve Kai small chunks of the darker section of pork loin and about a half a chicken heart roughly chopped with an egg yolk. (I really want her to eat tonight!). I will also include 1/8 tsp. eggshell powder and 1/8 tsp of the Wysong Ferret Omega-3 Spectrum supplement.

Overall she seems very healthy, has a lot of energy, likes to play, and can also be quite cuddly.

'Till tommorow - Happy Friday to All, and Thanks Again for Your Assistance.

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Uugghhh! *tomorrow

(The correction is for my own benefit mostly. Thanks!)

[FireAngel]

Turkey necks def need to be smashed up a bit for beginners.
I'm not sure if you know this or not but just a reminder if you do and a just to let you know if you don't, posts that have official pairings for mentors are only for the mentee and the mentor to post in. (giggle)
Liver is often a tough sell for ferrets, it often takes a bit of bribing with hand feeding and maybe some salmon oil to get them to eat it.

[Deleted]

Okay, Thanks Again!

I'll just read from now on, and not post. Apologies.

Best!!!!

[abbeytheferret6]

you can make a liver and kidney soupie. I do ths on occassion with mine using lamb from Hare Today or from my farmers' market. Anyway fill the ice tray tubs up and then pop them out when frozen. Store them in a freezer baggie. U get about an ounce for each little tub.

I have to finger feed a couple to start off

All my girls like guinea pig liver.

[Deleted]

All of my organ meals are considered soupie. I just use a food processor and throw in my ingredients and process it. I feel they get more equal amounts of all organs added and they eat it a lot better as well.

[Deleted]

So, having a a bit of difficulty getting Kai to take to the organ meals, especially the liver, I procured some beef liver to replace the chicken liver. For dinner last I served her .5 oz. (15 g) minced chicken heart and 1.2 oz. (34 g) beef liver that I rough chopped.

Yay! She ate about two-thirds of her dinner. I did hand feed the first few bites again, and came back a few more times to do the same before I went to sleep. This morning the results were as I have already stated,and I was quite pleased.

For her AM meal she was offered half a turkey neck again (sorry, I neglected to weigh this), but I did separate it per vertebrae, and then chop the individual vertebrae in halves, and if I could, thirds. Gave Kai some loves, and also provided her with a small (maybe ring-finger sized) piece of a Wysong Rabbit Dream Treat that I had softened in water in my lap before introducing her to the broken-up turkey neck pieces. I did hand feed her these for a few nibbles a few times, but within less than two hours she had ingested about 75% of her meal - mainly leaving the larger, more dense bones behind, and stashing one complete morsel in her hidey-hole. I've left the remainders out for her to see if she returns to them.

We also called the Broward Ferret Rescue to check up on our search for her companion, but I forgot that Dona was going to be out-of-town this weekend. Then we went for a romp in the backyard before the Florida sun got too hot for Kai.

Step-by-step, meal-by-meal, and with every moment of an increased sense of comfort and love we are making strides to ensure that Kai realizes how wonderful life can be, and we are happy!