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Post by Heather on Jan 30, 2016 0:20:39 GMT -5
Name: Katelin HF Forum Username: Fuzzie Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: Yes 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? On this forum and from Ferret-World. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to? I want to switch them to a fully Franken Prey diet, but if they aren’t accepting at first, I don’t mind buying kibble 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I want to switch my ferrets to a raw diet because it clearly has great nutritional benefits and because I don’t like the inconsistent nutrition and food additives that come with feeding them a kibble diet. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the necessary time commitment? Yes, at this point I am fully dedicated to the switch! 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I own three ferrets with no known health problems: 1. Ezio, Female, 2 years old, Sometimes I think she is underweight because she is so small. 2. Tautaun, Male, 2 years old 3. Wampa, Male, 4 months old I have had Ezio for two years, Tautaun for over a year, and Wampa for almost a month. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? They eat Blue Buffalo Kitten food and maybe once a week they get one of these treats: Ferretone, Ferretvite, Freeze Dried Chicken Liver Bites (All Things Living), Ferret Chew Treats. They have started eating raw egg once a week, but don’t finish one egg between the three of them. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? No 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? My princess Ezio loves my attention and snuggling, Tauntaun is pretty shy, and I am still trying to get use to Wampa with all his crazy Kit energy. Wampa is the most eager to try new foods, he was the first to eat the raw egg, then Ezio. But, Tauntaun is not as interested. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Most days. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Hi and welcome to the mentoring program :wave3: . In a little while your mentors (Machan), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 1:26:39 GMT -5
Hi fuzzie! I'm Machan, from Darley, Victoria, Australia. I'm very excited to mentor you and your three fuzzies!~ You have two males and a female, So do I! I have three dumplings called Haru (F), Yuki(M) & Beavis(M). If you would like to know more about me, feel free to check out my profile in the Meet Your Mentor Section. " rel="norewrite" target="_blank">holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/176/meet-mentor Here is a quick reminder:
Now, can you tell me little about your three? Have they ever tried raw since you applied? If not, that's fine. I think the best approach would be with the soup stage. You could also try giving Wampa some slivers of chicken thigh and see if he takes a liking to it. It's usually around 6 months that a ferret imprints on his or her food and tends to become more tough to persuade onto a new diet. If you can get him before he starts imprinting on the kibble, then it would make switching a whole lot easier for you. If you have all the ingredients ready, You can start with the soupie. Your 2 year olds may be little more reluctant at first but they'll adjust. ^^ Here is the soupie recipe:
8oz raw chicken thigh (raw) 1 oz raw chicken liver (or other raw liver) 1-2 raw chicken hearts (approximately 1 oz) or 1 oz other raw heart ½ to ¾ tsp bone meal or crushed egg shell (air-dry egg shell then crush with mortar and pestle or in a clean coffee grinder) Their raw food is also safe to leave out for a period of time. Here is the basic guidelines:Soups - 6-8 hours, Grinds - 8-12 hours, Chunks - 10-24 hours depending on the size (larger chunks last longer) Bone-in meats - 12-24 hours, again depending on the size, Whole prey - up to 48 hours. During the transition process you will more than likely see a lot of funky poop. The funky poop is the detox phase which is when their bodies begin to eliminate all the toxins from kibble and start using the nutrients from raw. Feel free to post about poop if you like. It would be great if you could post some photos of Ezio, Tautaun, & Wampa. One showing the overall body shape of each ferret. (http://holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/4342/type-picture-new-switches) And also a dangling photo so we get a general idea on their body shapes at the start of the switch. So for that you could just hold them up and their bodies should look like a tube. At the end of your switch, you will notice many differences in your ferrets, it's pretty awesome! Oh and I wanted to recommend you try and get something like Salmon oil, rather than use Ferretone, Ferretvite as treats. Ferretvite in particular is full of sugar and sugar can lead to diseases like Insulinoma. They're generally not a good treat, but the freeze dried chicken is a perfect healthy treat. ;u; Ferretone Ferretone contains various harmful ingredients, some for example is Soybean oil, Cod liver oil, BHT and propyl paraben. Plant based oils, such as soybean oil, aren’t easily absorbed compared to that of animal based oils. Soybean oil and or soy products in particular is suggested to be avoided as ferrets are prone to endocrine issues and soy contains estrogen analogues that have been recently reported to negatively impact human development. Genistein, one of the estrogen-mimicking isoflavones in soy, could be even be responsible for the high incidence of adrenal gland disease. Feeding too much Ferretone to your ferret could also potentially reach toxic levels of many of the nutrients in the product. For example, this product contains Cod Liver Oil which is HIGH in Vitamin A. It also contains Vitamin A Supplement; Vitamin A can cause toxicity in ferrets if fed in large or too frequent amounts. Vitamin A is also found in Liver, and it is not freeze resistant, so use Freeze dried liver treats in moderations. The Vitamin A builds up in organs since it is a fat soluble vitamin. Cod liver oil can be used as a supplement on its own, but its recommended to be avoided in general. A better alternative would be an animal/fish based oil like Salmon oil, or Emu oil. I personally use Duck fat and keep it frozen so the ferret licks it from the container while I trim nails or clean ears. Two other controversial ingredients are BHT & Propylparaben, which will be listed below. I also have explained Parabens and BHA&BHT in general. BHA (butylated hydroxyanisole) and BHT (butylated hydroxytoluene) are widely used by the food industry as preservatives, mainly to prevent oils in foods from oxidizing and becoming rancid. Oxidation affects the flavor, color and odor of foods and reduces some nutrients. BHA and BHT may have some antimicrobial properties, too. BHT is even sold in supplements, as an antioxidant. BHA &BHT are banned from human use in many countries but still permitted in the US. Possible human carcinogen, apparently carcinogenic in animal experiments. The oxidative characteristics and/or metabolites of BHA and BHT may contribute to carcinogenicity or tumorigenicity. Ferretone, contains propylparaben. They stop fungus, bacteria and microbial growth but have also been known to disrupt the endocrine system. Propylparaben has recently been reported to have adverse effects on the male reproductive system in rodents. See you later for now~
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 12:06:45 GMT -5
Hi Machan! I am very stoked to have you as my mentor! Thank you! I am definitely throwing all of ferretone and ferretvite away! So are the freeze dried chicken liver treats okay just once a week? I use them for treats when my babies are doing their tricks. (roll over, stand, shake, and circles. Haha) Also, I know they are bad...but my babies of peanut butter bandits? I rarely give more than one a week. Should I throw those out or use them sparingly? What about "human" peanut butter? I will be posting more soon!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 15:17:01 GMT -5
1. Ferret's name: Ezio 2. Ferret's weight: 1 lb, 12 oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. Not sure how to measure this?
4. Stools on various proteins. Stool was dry on kibble and I was worried she wasn’t drinking enough water. But since Thursday her stools are back to “normal” on the chicken Soupie.
5. Activity levels: She usually sleeps a lot and only plays in the morning, but she has been more active all day and playing with my kit.
6. Weekly menu: Menu for ALL of my ferrets: Monday: kibble, Tuesday: kibble, Wednesday: kibble Thursday: AM: kibble PM: 3 cubes of Soupie mixed with kibble Friday: AM: 10 cubes throughout the morning, mostly eaten by Wampa and Ezio PM: 8 cubes of Soupie mostly eaten by Wampa; Small amount between Taun and Ezio 1. Ferret's name: Tauntaun 2. Ferret's weight: 2 lb, 7 oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. So far I have only seen him eat a couple bites this week, I had to hand feed him Soupie until Friday night when he started eating on his own. 4. Stools on various proteins. I have not seen his stools yet because he was refusing to eat most days. 5. Activity levels: Tauntaun was sluggish during the beginning of the week on kibble and the first two days of Soupie. But Friday night he started to eat Soupie on his own and was his energetic self this morning, running everywhere for hours hiding his toys. 1. Ferret's name: Wampa 2. Ferret's weight: 1 lb, 15 oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. He has been eating most of the Soupie, sometimes 3 cubes a meal, I added chunks on Friday night and he ate them as well. 4. Stools on various proteins. Stools are runny on the Soupie. 5. Activity levels: He is always energetic but he is less bloated from the Soupie, which I am very happy about! Now, can you tell me little about your three? Ezio is my female Sable and she usually has a low energy level. She likes to sleep more than my other two. She usually plays in the morning and rests most of the day; and likes to cuddle at night. She is fonder of people than the other two because I had her for almost a year by herself. Ezio and Taun are both trained to do tricks like sit, roll over, circle, and hand shake. Tauntaun is my white male and he has a lot more energy than Ezio. He spends most of the days hiding his toys, running around, and only recently wrestling with Wampa. He doesn’t like new foods as much as Ezio. He is the type of ferret who only sleeps in the cage and only snuggles if you pick him up while he is sleeping. Wampa is my Silver Mitt and is a high energy kit. He plays all days, picking on the other two and making them play with him. He pretty much eats anything I put in the food bowl. I am still getting to know him, but he is a well-mannered ferret. Like my other two, he is litterbox trained already. He just followed the other two as examples and I’ve never had any problems. Have they ever tried raw since you applied? I have started them on Soupie already. Also, I have fed them raw eggs before which they all willingly tried without too much convincing. I think that is why they are interested in the Soupie already. There has been no kibble since Friday. - It would be great if you could post some photos of Ezio, Tauntaun, & Wampa. One showing the overall body shape of each ferret. Ezio Tauntaun Wampa - And also a dangling photo so we get a general idea on their body shapes at the start of the switch.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 22:16:30 GMT -5
Yes of course, as long as it is in small moderations then the liver treats shouldn't be an issue. You can also give fresh meats as treats if you like. I actually got my guys some prawns for summer and put them in a water bowl so they can snorkel for them. It'w quite fun to watch and gives them a lot of mental stimulation. ^^ I was actually looking into the ingredients for bandits and from all that I've picked up, they are basically junk food and not very healthy for ferrets so I wouldn't recommend those. As for peanut butter, that too is very unhealthy and not recommended. 1. Ferret's name: Ezio2. Ferret's weight: 1 lb, 12 oz3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. Not sure how to measure this?If you can give a rough estimate that's fine. It also helps if you weigh out the food beforehand and watch to see how much she eats. 4. Stools on various proteins. Stool was dry on kibble and I was worried she wasn’t drinking enough water. But since Thursday her stools are back to “normal” on the chicken Soupie.That does happen on kibble unfortunately. The kibble causes them to dehydrate really easily, so they're forced to drink more. They're kind of like cats in this sense and may not necessarily drink when ever they need to drink. With raw, they get a lot of their water content in their food so you will probably notice they drink less and less. What would you describe "Normal" as? You can describe colours and appearance of textures etc. If not, feel free to post photos if you wish. ^^ 5. Activity levels: She usually sleeps a lot and only plays in the morning, but she has been more active all day and playing with my kit.Usually at the start of a switch you may notice that they all get this energy boost and become more active. It's fantastic to hear that she's been more active, that's proof that she's making use of all the nutrients in her new food. ^^ 6. Weekly menu:Menu for ALL of my ferrets: Monday: kibble, Tuesday: kibble, Wednesday: kibbleThursday: AM: kibblePM: 3 cubes of Soupie mixed with kibbleFriday: AM: 10 cubes throughout the morning, mostly eaten by Wampa and EzioPM: 8 cubes of Soupie mostly eaten by Wampa; Small amount between Taun and ElioFor the next week, I recommend trying and giving soup every day. I don't recommend mixing it with kibble as that would increase the bacteria load. Even though ferrets can take a larger bacteria load, we don't want to throw on too much bacteria as it may cause a stomach upset. Instead, Try giving kibble In the PM, That way they get it all night, and an hour before their morning meal, give them their soup as it is. Since a ferret has a fast digestive tract of 3-4 hours, you want to make sure that they are never left without something to eat for too long. Removing the kibble beforehand would also ensure that they don't fill up their bellies before their new meal. Over the week, you can slowly decrease the amount of kibble, and then increase the soup until they are eating only the soup. 1. Ferret's name: Tauntaun2. Ferret's weight: 2 lb, 7 oz3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. So far I have only seen him eat a couple bites this week, I had to hand feed him Soupie until Friday night when he started eating on his own.Great work! It's fantastic to hear that he's eating the soupie without being hand fed now. 4. Stools on various proteins. I have not seen his stools yet because he was refusing to eat most days.5. Activity levels: Tauntaun was sluggish during the beginning of the week on kibble and the first two days of Soupie. But Friday night he started to eat Soupie on his own and was his energetic self this morning, running everywhere for hours hiding his toys.I personally think the main issue with kibble is the fact that they have to blindly supplement it. Since they cook the meats when they process kibble, the cooking process destroys all the essential nutrients and enzymes, and then they have to supplement and most of the time its synthetic supplements. With the raw, all the nutrients are there and they can easily make use of those when they digest them. Once they're completely off the kibble, they will then start to detox from the kibble- this is usually the part where all the funky poops come in. rofl! 1. Ferret's name: Wampa2. Ferret's weight: 1 lb, 15 oz3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. He has been eating most of the Soupie, sometimes 3 cubes a meal, I added chunks on Friday night and he ate them as well.You should definitely try getting him on slivers (Or even bone in meat). He's very accepting of the soupie and since he's young he should be quite easy to get onto raw. 4. Stools on various proteins. Stools are runny on the Soupie.5. Activity levels: He is always energetic but he is less bloated from the Soupie, which I am very happy about!Watch his stools and if they continue to be runny and doesn't improve he may need little more egg shell powder to firm them up. He sounds wonderful. ;u; Ezio is my female Sable and she usually has a low energy level. She likes to sleep more than my other two. She usually plays in the morning and rests most of the day; and likes to cuddle at night. She is fonder of people than the other two because I had her for almost a year by herself. Ezio and Taun are both trained to do tricks like sit, roll over, circle, and hand shake. She sounds much like my little girl Haru. She started out with a very low energy before I switched her and would quit playing after an hour to sleep. Over time they gradually increase energy. It sounds like Ezio is very bonded with you ;u; That's wonderful. I love the tricks! I did some training a while ago and all three of mine can do things like Stand, Roll over and turn around etc. I'm yet to try the hand shake one. That must be so adorable. Tauntaun is my white male and he has a lot more energy than Ezio. He spends most of the days hiding his toys, running around, and only recently wrestling with Wampa. He doesn’t like new foods as much as Ezio. He is the type of ferret who only sleeps in the cage and only snuggles if you pick him up while he is sleeping.What a personality! I love the name Tauntaun. Wampa is my Silver Mitt and is a high energy kit. He plays all days, picking on the other two and making them play with him. He pretty much eats anything I put in the food bowl. I am still getting to know him, but he is a well-mannered ferret. Like my other two, he is litterbox trained already. He just followed the other two as examples and I’ve never had any problems. I think Silvers are gorgeous. He sounds like such a fun kit. I wish my guys were kits again, I miss all the energy rofl! The best thing about kits is the fact that they do eat anything you put in front of them. This makes it easier to switch since they're so accepting of new foods. After 6 months, they may become stubborn. Haru was stubborn for me when she was 8 months, and Yuki was 6 months and transitioned smoothly. ;u; The fact that Wampa is litter box trained must make things so much easier for you. Since you brought up eggs, I thought I would give you a small lesson. It covers things like Salmonella/E.Coli, Eggs and Hairballs. You can read this in your spare time and also in advance I may give you random pop quizzes (don't worry they're pretty easy) to ensure you're understanding everything. (giggle) Ezio, Tauntaun & Wampa have such gorgeous coats! Tauntaun is so white and huge! (in a good way) He kind of reminds me of my Yuki. The bigger the cuddlier. hehe. They all do seem to have a slight roughness appearance to their fur, you may notice their fur become soft and smooth as they adjust to the raw diet. It's one of the best parts of a raw diet. Anyway that's all for now. I'm off to do my daily errands and feed some hungry dumplings. In the meantime, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask~ I'll talk to you later. ^^
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 0:03:01 GMT -5
Thank you Machan for all the great advice and looking up those treats for me! I am planning to go searching for salmon oil tomorrow. I tried today and was unsuccessful...off to the pet store! I am concerned about Tauntaun today... he isn't adjusting as well as the other two. He rarely eats. Apparently once I took the kibble out of the Soupie he was no longer interested. I hand fed him about a tablespoon of Soupie and then gave him some kibble. He ate the kibble like he was starving and ate the whole bowl. I only gave him the kibble because he was acting lethargic and being compulsive about his toys. He usually runs with his toys for about twenty minutes and moves on, but today he was hiding them, sleeping with them, and ignoring the other ferrets. He never sleeps with his toys.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 1:38:13 GMT -5
Thank you Machan for all the great advice and looking up those treats for me! I am planning to go searching for salmon oil tomorrow. I tried today and was unsuccessful...off to the pet store! I am concerned about Tauntaun today... he isn't adjusting as well as the other two. He rarely eats. Apparently once I took the kibble out of the Soupie he was no longer interested. I hand fed him about a tablespoon of Soupie and then gave him some kibble. He ate the kibble like he was starving and ate the whole bowl. I only gave him the kibble because he was acting lethargic and being compulsive about his toys. He usually runs with his toys for about twenty minutes and moves on, but today he was hiding them, sleeping with them, and ignoring the other ferrets. He never sleeps with his toys. I was also unsuccessful with finding salmon oil, but managed to find duck fat which works pretty well. I do hope you manage to find some salmon oil. Make sure to check the ingredients to ensure that its 100% salmon oil and has no random ingredients which some brands do have. I tried salmon meat quite recently with my ferrets and they're obsessed with it, so I can only just imagine how great salmon oil is. ^^ If you're able to order online, Amazon has it. A popular brand among the ferret community is called Grizzly Salmon Oil: www.amazon.com/Grizzly-All-Natural-Supplement-Pump-Bottle-Dispenser/dp/B0002ABR5K/ref=lp_6127458011_1_2?srs=6127458011&ie=UTF8&qid=1454220962&sr=8-2 You could also ask the store if they're able to get any salmon oil in if they don't have any. ^^ Fingers crossed they do~ I am concerned about Tauntaun today... he isn't adjusting as well as the other two. He rarely eats. Apparently once I took the kibble out of the Soupie he was no longer interested. I hand fed him about a tablespoon of Soupie and then gave him some kibble. He ate the kibble like he was starving and ate the whole bowl. I only gave him the kibble because he was acting lethargic and being compulsive about his toys. He usually runs with his toys for about twenty minutes and moves on, but today he was hiding them, sleeping with them, and ignoring the other ferrets. He never sleeps with his toys. Some ferrets progress faster and some slower than others. Once a ferret imprints on their food, they gradually become addicted to the kibble and need to be slowly weaned off it. The change in behaviour sounds to me like Tauntaun is sulking at the change in food. That's typical for a ferret addicted to kibble. This can be quite hard for us ferrents. Our ferrets will try and test our limits when transitioning to a new food. They're pretty smart, but we need to be stubborn and do our best not to give in. Next time try hand feeding him the soup instead of giving the kibble. You want him to become more used to the soupie rather than think if he behaves a certain way that he'll get his kibble. The more he tries the soup, the more he'll adjust and the more he'll be willing to eat it by himself. ^^
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 10:42:13 GMT -5
I may have to order salmon oil online if I cannot find it at the pet store. Where do you get duck fat? I have only ever seen whole frozen duck? Would that be a good buy? I know it's about $20 and I don't want to waste it. Also, I have a lot of left over thigh/leg bones....what do I do with them since them aren't at the bone stage yet? How soon can I start switching meats? I've only fed them chicken thighs, hearts, and livers.... I bought chicken feet... when can I introduce them to Wampa? He and Ezio are already eating silvers and pinkie nail sized chunks. (dance) In my freezer I have lamb hearts, chicken hearts, chicken thighs, chicken livers, chicken feet, and chicken wings. Tauntaun is DEFINITELY SULKING! After eating his kibble he had lots of energy and was back to fighting with Wampa. Then when I put out the Soupie, he ran away and started looking for leftover kibble. I hand fed him about an ounce of the Soupie. He doesn't seem to mind it... he just wants his kibble. Also, I know Ezio ate some of the kibble because she was refusing to eat Soupie. But when I hand fed her, she I guess remembered she liked it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2016 21:38:07 GMT -5
I may have to order salmon oil online if I cannot find it at the pet store. Where do you get duck fat? I have only ever seen whole frozen duck? Would that be a good buy? I know it's about $20 and I don't want to waste it.
Duck fat would probably be found in the refrigerator section of your supermarket. It may be worth asking someone who works there. ^^ I got mine for $5-6 (a very small tub) and It's last me a 4 months and counting. It's usually in a plastic tub, or a jar and looks white and feels really greasy (obviously from the fat lol). I like to keep mine frozen, so I simply take it out and open the jar and they lick at it while I trim nails. I also sometimes add little to their food but I try to limit how much is used. It's pricey, and could give ferrets runny poop kind of like too much oil does. Also, I have a lot of left over thigh/leg bones....what do I do with them since them aren't at the bone stage yet?You could put them in some zip lock bags and keep them in the freezer until you need them. They'll be good for up to a year in the freezer. Here's a little snippet about freezing and thawing meats. How soon can I start switching meats? I've only fed them chicken thighs, hearts, and livers.... I bought chicken feet... when can I introduce them to Wampa? He and Ezio are already eating silvers and pinkie nail sized chunks. (dance)
If you see that they are eating the soup well and by themselves, then you can start putting some slivers into the soup. Once they start eating the slivers by themselves then you can start reducing the amount of soup and increasing the amount of slivers until they are eating only the slivers. I'm impressed with Ezio. She's progressing quite fast and a lot more than I expected which is fantastic. Chicken feet make a wonderful treat. They aren't nutritionally fit for a meal, but a treat would be great. It's also a good introduction to bone in meats so feel free to give some to Wampa. If you're keen, you could also give Wampa a chicken wing and see how he deals with it. In my freezer I have lamb hearts, chicken hearts, chicken thighs, chicken livers, chicken feet, and chicken wings.
That's fantastic! The soup starts out with the protein chicken because it is an easy starter protein for ferrets. It's also balanced meat wise for a short term diet until a ferret is completely onto a balanced diet that contains a minimum of 3 different proteins other than: Chicken, Rabbit, Cornish Game Hen, or Fish. This is to ensure enough Vitamin B, Iron and Taurine is in the diet. You can stock up on any new meats if you wish and slowly introduce them later on down the switch. Hearts contain high amounts of Taurine, that's where ferrets usually get their base taurine from. Taurine can be found in any meat, but is found in largest concentrations in hearts, brains, and dark muscle meats like thighs. Another good back up for taurine would be Beef Tongue. If you would like to read more on taurine feel free to check out the following article: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/15089/information-taurineTauntaun is DEFINITELY SULKING! After eating his kibble he had lots of energy and was back to fighting with Wampa. Then when I put out the Soupie, he ran away and started looking for leftover kibble. I hand fed him about an ounce of the Soupie. He doesn't seem to mind it... he just wants his kibble. Also, I know Ezio ate some of the kibble because she was refusing to eat Soupie. But when I hand fed her, she I guess remembered she liked it. Oh Tauntaun! It's kind of similar to how human children dislike eating their greens even though they're good for them lol! Continue to persuade them onto the soup and once they're fully eating soup on their own I think that would be the best time to completely remove the kibble. When you notice they aren't eating, that's when the tough love will have to come into play and simply hand feed them the soupie. They're doing great, even Tauntaun hehe.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 12:00:09 GMT -5
So, yesterday I definitely pushed for eating more Soupie. I haven't given them any kibble since Saturday night and of course Tauntaun sulked all day. He was acting like he had no energy. >;D But in the morning I hand fed both him and Ezio 1 ounce cubes of Soupie. They both will eat Soupie willingly, but not until I start feeding it to them. I hand fed them 2 more times Saturday, so I know they ate at least 3 ounces of Soupie each. Today I have already fed them both 1 ounce. Ezio actually went to eat some on her own after I was done feeding her. I can tell she likes it because doesn't need to be spoon fed, she just like the attention. Tauntaun and Ezio have way more energy now that I am making sure they are eating. I am going to try and feed Wampa a chicken foot tonight. Do I need to break it up a little bit? They article on thawing was very helpful and answered a lot of my questions. Thank you. Also, I found some Wild Alaskan salmon oil, it has no additives. I let all of them try it and the only one who likes it is Ezio. The boys freak out and try to run away! Haha. I guess I need to find other treats for them and look into the duck fat. I'm pretty sure they will love that. What could my 3 different proteins be? Chicken...Lamb...Duck?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 20:29:57 GMT -5
So, yesterday I definitely pushed for eating more Soupie. I haven't given them any kibble since Saturday night and of course Tauntaun sulked all day. He was acting like he had no energy. >;D But in the morning I hand fed both him and Ezio 1 ounce cubes of Soupie. They both will eat Soupie willingly, but not until I start feeding it to them. I hand fed them 2 more times Saturday, so I know they ate at least 3 ounces of Soupie each. Today I have already fed them both 1 ounce. Ezio actually went to eat some on her own after I was done feeding her. I can tell she likes it because doesn't need to be spoon fed, she just like the attention. Tauntaun and Ezio have way more energy now that I am making sure they are eating. I am going to try and feed Wampa a chicken foot tonight. Do I need to break it up a little bit? They article on thawing was very helpful and answered a lot of my questions. Thank you. Also, I found some Wild Alaskan salmon oil, it has no additives. I let all of them try it and the only one who likes it is Ezio. The boys freak out and try to run away! Haha. I guess I need to find other treats for them and look into the duck fat. I'm pretty sure they will love that. What could my 3 different proteins be? Chicken...Lamb...Duck? It can take some time before they willingly eat the soupie, so the hand feeding it a good approach. The more you do something repetitive, they will become accustom to it and will be more likely to willingly eat the soup from the plate. The chicken wing should be fine on its own. Test him with it as a whole and if he turns his nose up (which I'm guessing he may not) then you can chop it up little for him. Yay! You found some salmon oil~ That's awesome! Sounds like a normal reaction for kibble fed ferrets hehe. They'll get used to it the more you entice them to have a try. For your base diet, you will have to gradually introduce new proteins. The more variety you have the better. The three base protein thing is to ensure everything is completely balanced and Chicken wouldn't count for those three. Chicken is a very common allergen in ferrets. It is the most likely protein to cause food sensitivities so it's advised to avoid a longterm chicken heavy diet. Lamb is very gentle, easy to digest and known as an “hypoallergenic meat.” This basically means that is less likely to cause a food sensitivity in ferrets compared to chicken. Some ferrets can be allergic to lamb, but allergies are quite uncommon. I use lamb for organs, my ferrets love it. How about you have a go at designing your own meal plan~ This doesn't have to be what you're currently feeding so you can design it however you like. You can use any meat/protein but you must have a minimum of 3 proteins (the more the better) other than: Chicken, Rabbit, Cornish Game Hen, or Fish. To read more on the Basic Frankenprey Menu: docs.google.com/document/d/1ysfT1bIvXixXYv6QFjW_EZZqHymtRXRTc3E_wAxLbxU/editHere is a template. You can rearrange meals if you wish. Just remember: You want 7-9 Bone In meals, 3-4 Muscle meat meals, including one full meal of Hearts, One meal of Liver plus another Organ, One meal of Liver plus another Organ, &, We need at least 3 different proteins. (Remember to list what type of meat)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 0:00:55 GMT -5
I didn't get to try chicken feet or wings today, but I plan on trying it tomorrow. I think Wampa and Ezio are going to show the most interest. Ezio is now eating out of the bowl on her own. Apparently I feed her too slow and my girl is a starving lil' carnivore! Tauntaun is still reluctant, but he doesn't turn away when he's hungry.
Wampa is having green/yellow loose stools, is that him detoxing? I notice pieces of eggshell in all of their stool...Am I not grinding is small enough?
How long before an only chicken diet is too long? You mentioned that it can cause allergic reactions... should I take it out completely once they are accustomed to eating other meats? When should I start adding the lamb heart to the Soupie?
I definitely plan on feeding them lamb because I know where I can get a steady supply. This specialty market was all about the lamb! Glad to know it's hypoallergenic.
I will make a meal plan when I have some free time tomorrow. I am confused by "You can use any meat/protein but you must have a minimum of 3 proteins (the more the better) other than: Chicken, Rabbit, Cornish Game Hen, or Fish." On the link it says that one of the three proteins has to be something other than chicken, rabbit, cornish game hen, or fish? Could my three meats be "chicken, cornish game hen, and pork(the other?)"
Why are chicken, rabbit, cornish game hen, and fish grouped together???
Thank you!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 3:36:49 GMT -5
Ezio is such a smart girl! She's getting good at this (dance) Everyone is moving along very nicely, great job! During the switch you would see some funky poops. It usually takes a couple of weeks before they start adjusting to the new food and then the poop will clear up. It is definitely detoxing. I experienced greenish and yellowish poops as well. The pieces of "egg shell" sounds like seedy poops. Those are simply undigested fats and that too would clear up after a ferret gets used to the new food. You may also experience seedy poops when a ferret has eaten too frequent bone in meat meals and you can even get loose poops when trying a new protein for the first time. Usually they clear up in no time. Even on raw, their poops change colour depending on what they've eaten. Egg can also cause yellow loose poops. Organ poops are slightly smelly (which is normal), small and dark brown (sometimes you may mistake it for black poop) and look smooth. How long before an only chicken diet is too long? You mentioned that it can cause allergic reactions... should I take it out completely once they are accustomed to eating other meats? When should I start adding the lamb heart to the Soupie?It can, but it differs from ferret to ferret and that doesn't always mean that it will cause an allergic reaction. You don't necessarily have to completely remove it either. As long as it is in a balanced menu and you have 3 base proteins. I give my guys chicken occasionally, especially chicken gizzard. Here is a good article about Protein Elimination Diet. t may come in handy in the future if you notice any intolerances with certain proteins. holisticferretforum.com/health/irritable-bowel-disease-ibd/protein-trialelimination-diet-for-ferrets-raw-diet/Hearts should already be in the soup, but if you want to add in some small pieces feel free to do so. Heart contains Taurine and that is water soluble so if they consume too much of this nutrient they simply excrete it VIA urine. I definitely plan on feeding them lamb because I know where I can get a steady supply. This specialty market was all about the lamb! Glad to know it's hypoallergenic.That's awesome! Lamb is expensive where I am, so i only buy the organs for now but sometimes add in lamb when ever I get sales. I think sales end up a ferrents favourite thing thanks to our ferrets lol! I will make a meal plan when I have some free time tomorrow. I am confused by "You can use any meat/protein but you must have a minimum of 3 proteins (the more the better) other than: Chicken, Rabbit, Cornish Game Hen, or Fish." On the link it says that one of the three proteins has to be something other than chicken, rabbit, cornish game hen, or fish? Could my three meats be "chicken, cornish game hen, and pork(the other?)" Why are chicken, rabbit, cornish game hen, and fish grouped together???
If you're three meats are Chicken, CGH and Pork, it would be very diffident in various vitamins and minerals that a ferret could get from red meats. However, You can definitely use any of those, providing there is at least three other meats. Preferably at least one being a red meat like Beef. For example: Lamb, Beef, Pork. (Those are actually my current three base proteins.) Chicken and Cornish Game Hen are the same protein. Thats how I class them because they're both broiler chicken. In fact, CGH is the most common strain of commercially raised meat chickens. If a ferret is intolerant to chicken, it is highly likely that they would also be intolerant to CGH. Fish also is something that shouldn't be fed too frequently since it causes runny, smelly poop. Some large sea water fish may also be high in mercury, so definitely something to be fed in moderations. I feed Salmon and Prawns every 2 weeks. Rabbit is usually farmed, and farmed rabbits have a very low Taurine amount compared to their wild counterparts, that is the main reason that it's not recommended to be a majority of the menu. Here's an example of my Menu so you get a good idea for proteins. A variety of meats keep the entire menu balanced vitamin/mineral wise. If you feed too much of one protein, things become unbalanced and too heavy in a certain protein. Temporary is fine, but long term may have some negative effects. (long term being about 5+ months or the rest of the ferrets life). That would mean that the ferret wouldn't be getting all the nutrients it needs and may cause deficiency or even an excess of certain proteins. If you use a variety of different proteins, your ferret's body will be supplied with a variety of nutrients. My base proteins in this menu are Lamb, Turkey, Duck and Beef/Ox. That is basically a majority of what they eat in the week so that is why it would be considered my base for proteins. (I also feed kangaroo, and pork now, along with salmon and prawns every couple of weeks) Beef is really recommended as its a perfect source of iron and vitamin B. If you can get any beef, I highly recommend getting some. It tends to have a milder taste to ferrets, but having it in the diet is very worth it. Does that make everything clear? I'm off to do some research now, I'll check in again later~
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 20:37:14 GMT -5
Yes! Everything is much clearer! I appreciate all your technical answers! Thank you!!! (Idea) Here is a picture of Wampa sleeping next to his food bowl and this morning EVERYONE ATE FROM THE BOWL! Wampa tried a chicken foot today, he was reluctant at first but then he decided that it was okay. He ended up only eating the nails off of the foot. I tried to feed it to Ezio and Tauntaun but they weren't quite sure what to do with the foot. They both just held it in there mouths and tried to hide it. Can I put the chicken foot back into the fridge after they don't eat it for 30 minutes? I'm glad to know that the yellow/green stool is just Wampa's body detoxing. Tauntaun and Ezio's stool has me a bit worried. Theirs is turning green but it's very small. It is not the normal snaky stool. Ezio, especially, looks like she is struggling a lot when she has to go. The link about the elimination diet is super helpful, it says a lot of the information that you were mentioning before, about the lamb being a hypoallergenic meat. I am still working on making a menu plan. I think I am going to use beef mince, lamb, and turkey as my base proteins? What do you think? I know I can get those three regularly. I like the menu you displayed but without the mice and duck. I don't know a place where I could get just duck wings. Beef is easy to find in Texas! Lol. Wampa and Tauntaun at the vet!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2016 6:02:45 GMT -5
I love the photo of Wampa sleeping with his food bowl. That's so adorable! I've seen other people post photos like that and I wanted my guys to do the same but I'm yet to catch them in the act hehe. Congratulations with Wampa trying the chicken foot! The feet look bigger than I was expecting. (Or maybe Wampa is just tiny hehe) Hand feeding would be a good option for these feet since they look pretty big. You could hold a ferret with one hand, and the foot in the other and rub it along the gemlike of the ferret. if they open their mouths, stick it in along the side where their carnassial teeth are until they start chewing it. I did this with Haru when I was switching. She was my stubborn girl and refused bone in meats like no tomorrow. You have to hold on really tight because they will grab on and attempt to pull it away to go stash. That's why i had to hold Haru until she started doing what i was hoping for. hehe. Next time you try feet, maybe you could cut them up and drizzle little soup on them. That may entice them to try it. Yes, I suppose you could! I generally wouldn't if its past 2 hours because it would change in texture, But within the 2 hour frame, you can re fridge, or even freeze it. The stool in your photo looks nice and healthy to me. I'm thinking that maybe that photo has two different stools. The top one, which seems snakey and long seems to be seedy and dry looking (but that may also be from the lighting). Is this one may be Elio's stool because from what you mention she sounds constipated. You may be able to help relieve that by giving her an egg. Then wait about 3 hours and watch for her to poop to ensure she poops with ease. Here's another thing that's worth book marking. It's a natural ferret laxative for temporary relief: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/14888/homemade-healthy-ferret-lax The second stool on the bottom isn't very seedy, so thats great. It doesn't appear to be very green, but again that may be due to lighting in the photo. Don't worry too much, it seems quite normal to me. You might see various types of funky poop for the first few weeks. gradually as you introduce more meats and start to balance it out, you will see them firm up and pick up on the different colours from meals. (Here's a photo of what Haru and Yuki's poop looked like on day 3 of my switch: postimg.org/image/qlgz65c7x/ ) You may also notice that they begin to poop a lot less when on the raw diet. I'm glad to hear that you found the elimination diet super helpful. It's definitely a great article to keep bookmarked. IBD and sensitivities are things that may happen at any age, but usually it happens to ferrets past 2 years old. It's crucial for the ferret's health that we know how to find the problem protein and eliminate it if needed. Feel free to take your time when making your menu. ^^ Beef, Lamb and Turkey make great three base proteins and I'm really happy to hear that you can get those. Have you been checking out local sources for various meats? I find making lists of places is a good idea. Sometimes one place may not necessarily stock everything you need, so you may have to look elsewhere. That's how I got the idea to have a list of local sources for meats. You can also ask local butchers if they can order in things. Sometimes they may be good about it, and that is so relieving! Don't worry too much on my menu when it comes to whole prey. You can simply use it as an example for Bone in meat, Muscle meat etc. You also don't need to worry about if you can get any of the meats you put down on the menu. It's just so I can see how you're able to build a plan. I love that stroller you have! That looks like fun! I should find one like that for my guys. hehe!
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