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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 5:18:07 GMT -5
Hi everyone.
My two hob kits are about 3 month old, both intact. They are half-brothers and know each other since the age of (about) 2 month.
First is a question about their behavior.
They really do like rough play. Most of the time if fun, but sometimes it gets to a point were both get a bit too rough for MY opinion. Both kits have scratches in their necks. But they don´t stop the "play", no pee, no poo, no blood, no one try to avoid this situation. But this tends to get more and more rough every day. So I don’t know, where this should end and when do I have to worry? I don´t like to separate the boys... Besides of the rough play they are good friends. They sleep together, play nicely most of the time and share a bowl.
How can I help the boys with healing their scratches? They add scratches to another and there is no chance to heal probably at the moment...
Next topic...
They slowly but surely get into puberty... I´m interested in a DES-Implant for chemical castration. But it´s more common overseas as here in Germany. I don´t find a lot of information on the internet I would like to find. So, I know it’s okay for hobs to get the implant. But... at which age? I´ve read, that the implant don´t affect the mature of a hob. So the implant could be placed soon...? Which age would you suggest? The idea of avoiding the first rut is really tempting... Some sources say "do whenever you like", other "not before the first rut"... So, what should I believe in? Most sources out of U.S. don´t fit my situation... Both kits are fully intact, most U.S. kits are desexed really early... Desexing over here would be done in or after the first rut...
So I appreciate your opinion/experience or/and a hint to a reliable source of information. I´ve browsed the forum already, but wasn´t able to find the right answers to my question.
Best wishes and thank you :-)
Jenny
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 9:09:14 GMT -5
Hello Jenny!
In sweden the suprelorin/deslorin implant is the most common way of castration nowadays. I personally feels it's the best way to keep the hormones at bay and keep the ferrets in good shape. I've seen the results of surgical castration and the poor hobs looks like noodles with no muscles afterwards. Sometimes it's the only choice but I would want to keep the ferrets as healthy as possible. (Not saying it's totally wrong to do a surgical castration, i just want my boys big and cuddly)
It's recommended over here to get it at the earliest at 6 months old. One of my hobs (Sid) got it at 5 months because he was very much in heat. It was a bit early but I contacted the best ferret vet in sweden before I did it and she said it was ok under the circumstances. We´re also told to do it when their balls have grown a bit, just to see if both balls have gone down properly.
But having two boys in heat at the same time can be fatal. They can truly hurt each other. At 3 months they probably are not going in to heat yet, but when it comes you should be ready to keep them separated for some time, and it can sometimes take several weeks for the hormones to calm down after a suprelorinchip.
My boys are always playfighting and get each other small scratches on the neck at least once a month, it's perfectly normal. They play a bit rough.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 13:18:50 GMT -5
Thank you @riotferret.
That's why I will go for the implant. I will give it a try at least for one cycle. I still can decide for a surgical castration later in their life's.
Okay, that's a guideline. But I'm interested why should I wait for at least six months? I'm not going to do it now, I'm just curios.
To be honest, Juniors balls are not really small... But they are my first hobs, so I have no experience, what is REALLY big or at least big enough... Dexter is 10 days younger than Junior. His balls aren't developed so far.
Thank you for the reassurance. I'm a bit worried... They are my babies... My girls grew up at my parents house. I didn't watch the whole process and they where absolutely well mannered all time... So my parents also have no clue about this topics. The girls are quite "boring"... No mess, no biting, ... They worked out so great without much to do for us humans...
All the best :-)
Jenny
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 13:45:32 GMT -5
Why the wait; I would guess it's because they havent had time to study the implants long enough in ferrets and they are not sure how the impact is on young ferrets, at 6 months they are for the most part fully developed.
We usually say when the balls are as big as peas =D then it's ok to put the implant in. Also, there would be a lot of dragging pee around, smelling a lot and being a bit more aggressive when they are in heat. If he's only 3 months old.. that's really early. I thought my boy was early when he was getting in to heat at 4,5 months old. If you are unsure, either google or you can send me a picture of his balls. No funny business, I promise! Lol!
Don't you know of any good vet in germany with lot's of experience with ferrets? I have one pretty close and they are always very helpful with questions regarding ferrets.
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Post by Heather on Aug 27, 2015 13:46:15 GMT -5
The wee ones will mature at different rates dependent on genetics. The 6 month window it to guarantee full sexual maturity before chemically castrating (fully descended testicles and such). There is also some muscle wasting upon chemical castration so this might also be a reason for the window. A full surgical castration causes a severe loss of muscle tone in a hob. A ferret is usually sexually mature at about 8 months. Some kits are a bit precocious and mature sooner (genetic and lighting and being kept in house will sometimes cause a hob kit to mature sooner). Generally, hob play keeps escalating until at some point they do become aggressive with each other. Some hobs can be kept together through their season, but often they must be separated for their own safety. The B&E twins have been together all their lives only separated for Bacchus to work and play with my jills (he's my v-hob). There have been a couple of times where I've considered separating them on occasion as they've become rough with each other and have carried hob hits between their shoulders but usually these have been isolated incidents. My other hob is rather miserable during his season and can't even be trusted to be nice to his girlfriend (wee Lady Morgaine) while he's in season and definitely could not be left with a male friend (he was removed from his brother's company because they got into it so badly that they had to be housed separately) so he is kept in his own space and only allowed to have her as a playmate on his offseason.
ciao
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 14:32:27 GMT -5
Thank you both for the input.
I won't get it done now, I absolutely understand why. They're far away from being mature. I just need to be prepared...
Okay, I don't think his balls are big as peas... The fur making them look a bit bigger. I will try do get a decent picture these days. Clear shots from a kit is a challenge.
I don't have a really(!) good ferret vet on hand. My actual vet is a good vet, but not a specialist for ferrets.
And I have a bit of trust issues with vets generally. Ask 3, get 4 opinions... And they often try to "sell". As I'm new to ferret kits or health issues, I need to trust my vet... and I'm not at this point now.
My biggest concern is that they losing their friendship. I can't keeping them separated for a long time. I can't offer three separate playtimes... Two groups (what I have now) are my absolute limit.
These two will make me get my first grey hairs...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 4:57:27 GMT -5
If they are separated for a while it will not destroy their friendship. They will probably fight a bit at first since they haven't seen each other in a while but things would get back to normal soon. Or they might just skip the fighting and just play also. I can't remember what my boys did.. probably no fight at all since I can't remember and it was in january =D.
Why don't you have them all together now? Don't they get along?
If there are any vets in germany with good knowledge of ferrets i'm betting they would not have anything against answering questions, even if they aren't local to you. I do know about the trust issues with vets =D We have to point our local vet in the right direction, but they are good and want to learn, but for "bigger" stuff we go to the vet with good ferret knowledge, even if it's a longer drive.
Also a bit OT: But i'm just curious and don't know any germans with ferrets. Do germans usually have ferrets in cages or is it more normal to have them free roam?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 6:21:23 GMT -5
Okay, sounds good. At the moment I don´t consider separating the boys. There is no true aggression between them… they only tend to get a bit “angry” when nobody wins the “fight”. And as long nobody try to avoid this rough play… I´ll let them.
My girls try to attack the boys really aggressively. It got to a level, I couldn’t tolerate. There was fear pooping and peeing from the boys. So I stopped direct intros while playtime. They have still nose to nose contact and the cages next to each other, but I give the boys a fair chance to grow a bit. And to be honest... The girls are old at nearly 8 y/o. I don´t want to stress them too much. They don´t seem to be really happy about the new kits…
Ferrets aren’t so popular compared to the typical pets like dogs, cats, hamster, … Ferrets don’t appear in the “Top 10” of pets. But many people never seen a ferret or mistaken them for rodents *doh*… Some people know ferrets from hunting rabbits.
The people who keep ferrets as pets vary a lot. Per say there is no typical “style” of owning a ferret over here. Without any statistics in mind… I guess most of the ferrets are caged with some playtime. Mine are caged when we are out of house. The rest of the time they free roam the apartment.
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Post by Thérèse on Aug 28, 2015 11:15:24 GMT -5
I like their bigger size, so I always get boy ferrets and being in Australia, that means they are often intact when I get them. My ferrets ages range and so I have never had 2 intact males at the same time but thought you might appreciate my recent experience because it is recent.
My youngest boy is 9mo (10mo on 3 Sept). I was hoping that he would hold off until September to go into rut (that being when Spring starts here. However, first ruts are unpredictable often just appear when the ferret is old enough. He didn't wait. I first noticed slight signs of rut end of June. Just things like him being a bit more intense in his play. However things escalated over time and so I ended up in tears a fortnight ago because I thought he was going to injure my 3 legged boy. He was doing the full on hob song machine gun dooking, interspersed with sounds of whimpers, having dragged Sumo (3 legged boy) off the bed and behind it. I don't like to intervene in their interactions except under extreme circumstances. It was night and I had the lights off but I was that distressed I turned them on and looked. They both looked at me with that 'what?' look and from how they were I was not even sure the whimpers were Sumo. They were fine but it galvanised me into action and I did the ring-around the next day for prices on desexing (I am still uncertain about suprelorin as a preventative and opt for desexing but leave it as long as I and the other ferrets can handle things). The earliest I could get him done was a week later. So he has now been family jewel free for a week and the hormones have diminished but are still there a little. Each day there are less indications and his play is much less intense and I barely hear the machine gun dooking now. Also no more sliming things or me and he isn't oily to the touch (although he never got as oily as some hobs I've had, he didn't have the hob eyes ringed with oil). His family jewels were definitely bigger than peas at the time of removal (they were about the size of a small marble each). That's my latest hob experience.
And being in Germany you should appreciate his name without me having to explain it. His name is Schatzi.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 12:37:59 GMT -5
Thérèse Schatzi... That's sweet :-) Thanks for your input, it helps me understanding what's happening soon. @riotferret ... You asked for balls... Here you have:  Left: lying on his back Upper right: dangling Lower left: random... A little change of my plans: Dexters neck is sore, he's sensitive to touch. I will separate them over nighttime... He needs to heal. But it breaks my heart :-(
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Post by Heather on Aug 28, 2015 15:17:56 GMT -5
Those are small  Still a baby hob lol. My guys look like that when they're out of season, so you still have time. Keep his dark time as much as possible. I put a cover on my cages and used a black out curtain on their window. The only light they saw was when they were upstairs playing. This helped hold off their full rut until just about the end of November. My guys usually start coming in around the winter solstice and are full in a month later. Do you have any sudocreme. I use this on my guys when they've been marked and are sore. It helps heal the wounds and tastes terrible. Most of the time this will stop them from grabbing the scruff as well ciao |
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Post by crazylady on Aug 28, 2015 16:10:32 GMT -5
Awww baby babies Heather is correct sudocreme works wonders and keeping light to daylight hours if you can is a must there play is practice for jills they do get a bit carried away at times just watch for dragging ears ( if they puncture the ear they get cauliflower ears which is a deformed ear ) I have adult whole hobs who live together ( 4 brothers ) they do try the mating game but it soon stops and I have not had any bad accidents just the odd scratch rough and tumble among kits sounds worse than it is there pretty tough lol take care bye for now
Bev
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 16:11:08 GMT -5
*lol* yeah, those balls are not big yet, he has some time until he is going into season. As Heather says ^_^
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 20:42:39 GMT -5
Good to know. Junior jewels appeared a lot bigger than Dexter's. But the longer fur makes them look bigger... ;-)
Okay, I have to sew something. Never seen a cage cover for my cage.
I think natural light is okay or reduce that too?
I will have to google, what Sudocreme is. I don't know a product with this name in Germany.
Your reassured me a lot. Thank you all. As first time ferrent to kits, it's sometimes a bit overwhelming...
Dexter's neck is a mess now. I hope, it can heal fast. Poor baby boy... But they don't stop playing... Dexter isn't better than Junior. But he is now sensitive and screams easier when Junior "attacks".
Ciao ciao
Edit: Found it. Never heard about it. I can get it in drugstores. :-) I'll go and get some tomorrow morning.
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Post by Heather on Aug 29, 2015 1:13:55 GMT -5
I find that between the sudocreme (referred to as baby butt cream around here) and the fast healing of the ferrets...they usually heal up fairly quick. Hope your wee boys are feeling better soon. Tico is a shameless sod. He is a solo hob. He will not tolerate any other male. He loves his little Lady Morgaine but no other male is allowed to be anywhere near him. That's just how he is.  This is the B&E twins. They're 4 yrs old. They're intact and have never been apart. Bacchus (the B of the B&E) is my v-hob. Enigma is an fully functioning hob. They've roughed each other up on occasion and have done some scruff damage but never enough to cause me to separate them. Their first year was the worst and they almost got separated a couple of times.  ciao |
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