It's early Sunday Morning here. I'm looking forward to a lazy day.OH! Its still sunday here too! Wow, we're on the same day for a change. Its currently 11pm. hahaha!
We have not gone into breeders. I just don't have the heart to bring the fellows home and watch them have babies and grow up. Then terrify them by offering them live to my ferrets. I also don't have the heart to dispatch them. Maybe with time.I would love to think of them as another pet rodent, however its probably best not to think of them like that since if something was to go wrong like for example a complication with pregnancy or birth with a rodent, then it would probably be best for her to be euthanised. ;n; It would be quite sad if that was the case, but the animal is top priority regardless of them being feeders or pets. In the wild, mice and rats don't live past their first year or year and a half. When my pet ratty died a couple of years ago, he just managed to scrape past his 3.5 year mark which for a rat was fantastic! They have such short lifespans, so I think a ratty life is such a small life for them.
Oh! I don't think I told you about my pet mice either. I ended up with a male and female without realising it and I had them for a while. I think the female ended up getting pregnant because she was getting pretty round. I went to check on them one day and it turns out the male killed the female in a very brutal way. (He tore at her neck) It was such a sad thing to see. He was huddled in the back and it was really messy. (very gruesome) I didn't think mice were even capable of doing something like that to be honest.
I've owned both male and female rats and they never once have done something like that.
Anyway, I was looking into the legality of live feeding and apparently it's not 'illegal'.
We do have codes of practice and those aren't enforceable by law.
I thought I would bring this up since its basically same topic. People say that its illegal in attempt to stop people from doing it. It seems that people like to think its cruelty based on putting an animal in an enclosed area for live feeding. When you think about it, it is quite cruel but the laws on cruelty are a much longer subject and there's a fine line there somewhere as well. I honestly wouldn't be able to do it regardless of it being legal or illegal.
Here is some info that Katt passed along to me. There is also good info on the home page under raw feeding.I would start with dead mice rather than live. Sometimes letting them hunt will entice them to eat their prize, but other times recognizing the mouse as food makes them more inclined to hunt it. Either approach works, there's not really much way to judge ahead of time what will work best for each ferret. My reason for suggesting killed mice first is bc I know you are squeamish. Hubby is okay with it - is he okay stepping in to finish the job on a botched kill?I think that it's better done that way anyway. I can just imagine a ferret not recognising the mouse as food and they would both be stuck in the enclosed area awkwardly. There's also a chance that the feeder animal would become aggressive, because both rats and mice get like that when cornered. (Rat's are more aggressive, but its best not to underestimate a cornered little mouse.) They both can cause damage if they're given the chance.I think it was 80% of rats in the wild actually hunt mice themselves. Its called Muricide. Its quite interesting if you get past the fact they're killing another rodent. ha... Anyway, that in itself is proof they are fully capable of self defence if given the chance. I've owned mainly males and they were all simply sweet hearts. Between males and females, the females for me, were shown to be more aggressive (though both male and females are suppose to be equally aggressive if threatened etc). When they hunt mice in the wild, they aim for the neck. It could be under the neck, on top of the neck, side and what not. They also can aim for the heads or upper back. I think i read that it was the upper back that was the most common kill shot among rats. Apparently usually the first bite is suppose to be fatal, so you can really imagine how much damage they could do if they were used as live feeders. If mice can't escape from the rat in these cases, they become defensive and try to attack in return. Usually in the very same manner as well. I heard that a mouse is also capable of killing a highly venomous snake. I think it bit down repetitively until the snake died. (for the sake of it, did you know that mice become aggressive when they are exposed to heavy rock or metal music? I found that really interesting but strangely understandable.)
Here is a thread showing a good, quick kill:www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/13332/live-huntAnd a thread showing how to perform cervical dislocation if you have to step in:www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/13333/perform-cervical-dislocationOh I think I did see these two threads!
I've had to do the cervical dislocation once before. One of my old cats got a pigeon and it was bleeding to death. Poor thing was still hanging in there despite being in complete shock from the really bad kill attempt. ;n;
It was slightly different, since I used my fingers rather than a pencil. It was quite sad. But it was the best thing I could do since If I was to take it to the vet, they would also put it down since Pigeons are pests. Its also the best thing you can do. Other techniques like hitting their little skulls on something is probably the worst thing you could do. I've also heard that some people drown newborn 'sickly' pets like puppies or kittens. Its way better to do a cervical dislocation since its fast and painless.
I suggest having Paul watch those first. Let him know as well that there is a learning curve, so the first 1-2 hunts might take a little longer but if they don't pick it up quickly, they should not be allowed to hunt. If you can convince him to create a forum account too I could walk him through live feeding more easily.Any pet store that sells snakes should carry frozen mice and rats. Frozen prey is called f/t (frozen/thawed). You can thaw them out in the bags and feed the killed mice (or rats). Generally when introducing whole prey, you may need to do some cutting open and cutting up. Some will take to it right away if you cut the belly open and drizzle in some salmon oil. If that doesn't work, then you'll want to get some pinky mice and cut them up and gradually increase in size and prey age. Being young, it shouldn't take them too long.Chopping up some mice sounds so unnerving. Though, I actually did cut their little stomachs open for Haru & Yuki. *sigh* It was like going back to science class and dissecting things all over again.
I noticed that if you just do it really quickly and get it over with, its less disturbing.
I'm kind of happy that they both went to them straight away also!
Keep in mind, pieces may get stashed since you free roam. Consider all of the above and decide what you want to do and I will help. I never push anyone to do whole prey. I will tell you all about the wonderful benefits, and how good it is for them. They can have a perfectly well balanced diet on frankenprey too though, so if it isn't something you are comfortable or can get comfortable with, don't feel like you are letting them miss out or anything. Whole prey is wonderful for them, and live prey is great enrichment for their cunning little minds as well as being (with a good hunter) even More humane than the CO2 method used on f/t prey. (Don't worry though, CO2 killed prey is just fine). I won't try to talk you out of it, esp if Paul is willing to do the "dirty work," but I won't push you on it either.I had to hold Haru when she got her first adult mouse because she instantly want to stash it. After holding her for a bit she started eating and then tried to run off to stash the half eaten mouse. I was almost left with its head in my lap. ;o; Haru is so thoughtful. My roommate called to me one time and she said "Yuki's left a little surprise in the couch." Turns out he stashed the bottom half of the mouse. It was funny and both disturbing rolled into one.
CO2 is fairly easy to make homemade. We did it in highschool for science. (I think it was baking soda and vinegar?) I know places that also sell the cans. Its also very convenient since you can do multiple at once. I might learn about these things before I start. Its always best to become knowledgable, especially since I want it to be done correctly to avoid hurting the animal.
Oh fantastic! (dance) Other whole prey mostly includes rats, guinea pigs, and whole chicks - but those are mostly for treats. Mice alone are great. Rats are good but....to say they smell would be an understatement. You really have to remove the GI tract or the smell is horrendous, doing that cuts down the smell a LOT though. You should be able to get f/t rats from any pet store that carries snakes if that's something you want to offer. RodentPro is a great source for whole prey too. You will LOVE whole prey poops btw. Best poops ever. So clean!
I saw pinky rabbits on rodentfarm. Too bad that rodentfarm is so expensive when it comes to shipping. I think they expect like $150 for shipping and even then, they only ship to the airport. it sucks!! Biosupplies have been so great lately. I swear they are fantastic even though their courier can only deliver twice a week. They charge only $25 and deliver them straight to my door. They're fairly good for prices as well. So much cheaper compared to rodentfarm. Its cheaper to mice multiple mice compared to rats. Rats are easier to keep and breed compared to mice though. I think rats make lovely parents because they are very protective of their little ones.;u;
Would ducklings be the same size as chicks? I wonder if they would be a good idea for treats also.
Its funny, I find that mice stink compared to rats. Rats are easier to deal with and smell alot less compared to mice. When I got the frozen mice from biosupplies, they stank so bad!! It reminded me of the ones I used to own as pets. They are so smelly. I bet the ferrets must have thought that the smell was divine to them. hahaha!
Natural, homemade diet. Much cheaper ($20 for several months vs $10 for ~1 week) and healthier. www.naturalrodent.proboards.com/thread/1/natural-mouse-dietInfo on breeding: www.naturalrodent.proboards.com/thread/19/breeding-miceCare: www.naturalrodent.proboards.com/thread/4/mouse-facts-care-sheetEasy, cheap Breeding Rack: www.naturalrodent.proboards.com/thread/86/easy-breeding-binsI found this awhile ago while doing research on mice.
www.kingsnake.com/thewyvernslair/articles/phldypayne_01.html A few years ago I was mainly owning rats.
I used recycled newspaper pellets in their cages at the time since things with alot of dust content needed to be avoided due to their sensitive respiratory system. Rats are omnivores and I took advantage of that fact with my lovelies at the time. I gave them a wide variety of yums. Rats can't survive on a vegetarian diet alone either. They need animal proteins. Mine enjoyed steamed chicken the most, but their main diet was a Vegetable based diet.
Things like Peas, broccoli, tomato, watermelon, peach, etc. Pretty much anything, but not everything really.
Strawberries, Banana, Apple, Watermelon, Kiwi fruit, Pear, Tomatoes, Plums, Peaches, Lettuce, Cucumber, Pumpkin, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Carrots, Celery. Beef, Chicken, Turkey. They can also eat organ meats and bone in meats like chicken wings. They can have both raw and cooked. I always steamed their meats for them, but there were some things like beef mince that I would give to them raw. ^^ I've given mine chicken wings in the past as well. Its good for their forever growing teeth. Its also very convenient that they can eat pretty much anything that you'd have in the fridge. Although, there are things that need to be avoided, like some seeds for example apple seeds that have that small but harmful amount of cyanide.^u^ Oh, and rats are lactose intolerant. Some say feed them cheese in moderations but I'm strict so I never gave mine anything like milk, cheese or yogurt.
I would also give the ratties echinacea every couple of weeks. Since Rats (&mice) are prone to mycoplasma outbursts, I found that giving them echinacea (liquid stuff like cough syrup) in their water, that it helped them to live for longer. Unfortunately mostly all rats (&mice)carry the disease. Its the reason why rats don't live long in the wild. Its kind of sad. You also cannot get the disease from rats or mice. Which is good. If you buy frozen thawed mice ratties, sometimes you will see bits of red around their noses. Thats porphyrin which secretes from the harderian gland if the animal is stressed out or sick. It seems to happen alot more with a myco outburst unfortunately. When Ouzo had an outburst, the antibiotics weren't working out, So he had a more frequent dosage of echinacea and it cleared everything up. Echinacea is used for boosting the immune system. Its an amazing thing really.
As for the Protein, I think it was 18% and nursing females need a higher protein ratio. Too much protein can cause scabs and this greasy substance on the skin for males. They cant have too much sugar, which kind of reminds me of the ferrets in this case too. Many commercial rat foods contain so many harmful additives as well as chemical preservatives.
I love trading trivia. Did you know that children under one year of age should never have honey?It's believed to give babies Infant botulism. It's not common though and a rare occurence.Ooh no I didn't know that! Well I did know the not giving honey thing, but I was unaware of the reason. I migh pass that info onto my best friend. She's in the childcare industry so i'm sure she'd benefit from that info. ^^
Duck fat will work great. Fish oil has important Omega fatty acids. It would be nice to have some on hand. The capsules are a good idea and will work for now.We saw alot of salmon in Alaska. I love it.Would Krill or simply fish oil work the same way?
d*mn. I just realised the 'contains orange oil'. WHY.
I also found this one.
www.yourchemistshop.com.au/wagner-natural-liquid-fish-oil-vtamin-d-500ml.html?CAWELAID=620011870000451090&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=620011870000458972&cadevice=c&gclid=Cj0KEQjw04qvBRC6vfKG2Pi0_8gBEiQAAJq0vYwPii5MOrqUCMl1N_uooA8sd93wjEMsWMMmXWr_fVsaAgLU8P8HAQAnd this one.
www.biovea.net/au/product_detail.aspx?PID=4110&TI=GGLAU&C=N&gclid=Cj0KEQjw04qvBRC6vfKG2Pi0_8gBEiQAAJq0vdKNijbZFEfOOSXQZdBDvxJmjHm3pvShkH9vIst8SugaAnj88P8HAQThere is a theory that the reason we evolved and apes did not, is because we began eating fish.I think I've mentioned this before. The Omega fatty acids are brain food. I take a Cod Liver oil supplement a few times a day. I'm no brainiac so maybe it helps, maybe not. I don't like fish and I'm unable to stomach the capsules/jello thingies.. My roommate takes the krill oil I think and the capsules are big. They smell bad too!
I'm probably just sensitive since she said they don't smell but to me they smell awful.
If you decide on having children, I wonder what cravings you will have. It always seems like you crave the opposite of what you usually like.ahahahha! My ferrets are my children. (runs away.)
I'll eat anything but during my pregnancies hated the smell of any Chinese food. I craved McDonald's cheeseburgers and really dislike them. My son is a McDonald's junkie. I think I influenced him eating so many way back when.Thats kind of funny but it would sound like torture. "I CRAVE YOU SO MUCH BUT I FEEL SO DISGUSTED BY EATING YOU!"
I have a copy of that book. I love the pictures. It's pretty good for some basic info, but also has information that I would like to see removed.Your room mate sounds like she is a good friend and willing to learn and talk ferret with you.That is so nice of her. Non ferret people tend to turn off conversations about ferrets. She seems to be enjoying the ferret life. She also sounds kind and considerate. Have you known her long?The pictures are cute! I also love the little comic parts.
I really feel sorry for non ferret people. They're missing out on all the fun!
Hahahahha. My roommate is actually my mother, so yes, I guess you could say I've known her a long time.
I call her my roommate online ~ I didn't live with her for my entire life so it kind of feels like a roommate kind of atmosphere. Its fun. ^^ I call my parents by their first names, so I tend not to use their names online, they would prefer me not to do so anyway. Since I grew up calling them by their names, it kind of feels like I'm addressing them as a person in a more free kind of way. I'm not sure how else to explain it. When people hear that I call my parents by their names they're usually like*GASP* "HOW COULD YOU" (since society apparently thinks its necessary) I was actually scolded by an elderly woman a few weeks ago. It was actually very awkward for me.
My parents know they're my parents, I know they're my parents so I don't see the point in constantly announcing it to the world. Besides I feel its more respectful to acknowledge the names they were given. Its not like they go around calling me 'daughter' (shudder that sounds weird!!)
Tongue is super expensive here alos.
Stick with your lamb and ox heart. I really like that you use that.
I buy FDR heart as treats. I should try making some also. Maybe we could make them at the same time and then compare notes. Gina said hers took around 2 to 3 weeks.
I made freeze dried using chicken and pork, those took me about 2 weeks before they both dried out completely. It might vary depending on the meat or amount possibly?
The pressure thing is killer. I could never be on a game show like Jeopardy. I may know the answers, but would never get them out so fast.You are a fast learner and good listener.I'd probably love a game show. I'd get so excited that I would blurt out the incorrect answers.
hahaha.
I can't wait to hear all about him. Is this the first time since they left their fur mom, that Haru and Yuki have met another ferret?
I'm not anxious to graduate you. I'm having too much fun with you.
When i got Haru and Yuki, they were both in cages with ferrets from other litters. But apart from them, yes it will be! ^^ I think Yuki will love it! Haru will probably enjoy a new friend also. ^^
Haru looks gorgeous and healthy. Both of their bodies will continue changing. First they loose the kibble fat. Then they continue getting nice and lean. Then they get muscular. It seems to be take months to do all this. Their new silky soft fur is the first and quickest change.
I have a feeling they've both lost all that kibble fat already. Unless they still have stored away
The poops are no longer funky either! I've now seen the difference in poops when its certain meats. Yuki seems very lean now. I was expecting him to get bigger in size, but it seems he's still a pretty good shape/size. We ferret proofed the second bathroom so they can wonder in and out in most areas of the house now (apart from the laundry which is off limits all the time) Today, I was walking down the hall way and Yuki shoots out from the bathroom and under the cage. The little rascal managed to get hold of some soap and attempted to stash it. I thought I had put them all away. It turns out he managed to get on top of the shelf. He's like a ninja. I had to put everything in lockable cupboards hahahah. He's lucky it was a natural soap... I would have been freaking out if it made him sick.
I love all the vocalizations. My girls are very chatty. My boys are not.Roamy does grumble and mutter when he is unhappy. Both Wynstan and Roamy will dook when they are bouncing around.I love it too! Roamy and Wynstan sound so adorable!!
I'm off for awhile. I'll check back in later. It might rain and that means a lovely day in bed reading. Maybe I can even talk Paul into making pancakes and have a cheat day.Rainy days are the best days~
Good luck with the pancake persuading. hahaha!
I want pancakes. I might do some baking tomorrow. Oh wow its Monday already. I started writing this earlier and its now 2AM. I should go to sleep after this.
(That would mean possible 1-2 days until I get the new boy!!)
:banana:The girls rarely stop dooking, chattering, hissing, honking and making alot of noise.Haru sounds like she chatters. Its so adorable. She gets louder when her belly or sides are rubbed or tickled.
I'm yet to hear any hissing or honking. hahahaha. Honking reminded me of some geese.
okay I'm going now. Its waaaay past my bed time.
Bye bye!!