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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 0:05:07 GMT -5
Hi,
I realize that dietary needs may vary from ferret to ferret, but are there any general guidelines for:
*Amount of raw food a ferret should be eating in proportion to their body weight, assuming their entire diet is raw meat based.
*What proportion of each type - IE percent muscle meat vs. percent bone that should make up their diet.
*Of muscle meat, what percent should be heart?
I know I might be a little too specific. I just want to gauge how I should be designing their meals when they are fully converted. At this time as a supplement to their kibble diet, I am feeding ground beef, chicken or lamb, occasionally with liver blended in as well. I usually add a bit of bone meal powder, but not much. I don't want to overdo it..
Thanks for your help.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 0:32:11 GMT -5
Im going to tag gfountain to male sure I'm correct, but I'm pretty sure as follows- Amount of raw food a ferret should be eating in proportion to their body weight This will vary from ferret to ferret. They self regulate, so you let them eat until they're full and go by that. Always make sure there are a couple bites of their food left, if they finish it off then give them more until they leave some, and leave that for them in cade they wanna finish it later. Their fast metabolism means they should have access to food 24/7. Generally, a female will eat 1-3 ounces per day, and a male will eat 2-4 ounces per day. But each ferret is different. For instance, my 2.3 lb girl eats 3 ounces a day. My 1.6 lb girl would eat 5 ounces a day. Just depends, so make sure they leaving food and if they finish it off, give more. Always have food available. What proportion of each type- IE percent muscle meat vs. percent bone that should make up their dietThe ratio is 80% muscle meat, 10%-15% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organ. Of muscle meat, what percent should be heart?They get 80% muscle meat and 10% should be heart. This is broken down and explained better in the menu we follow. It comes out to- 4-5 muscle meat meals 7-9 bone-in meals 1.5 meals heart meals 1.5 organ meals Spread out and following a bone in meal, it would be one meal Half Liver, Half Other Organ. Then one meal Half Heart, 1/4 Liver and 1/4 Other Organ then a full meal of Hearts.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 1:07:41 GMT -5
Thanks so much @julesalot, this is exactly what I was looking for!!
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Post by Celene on Mar 22, 2015 2:06:05 GMT -5
@julesalot, I wish my girls would eat that much! My girls weigh 1.48-1.53 lbs and eat a maximum of 1.6 oz a day - I wish they would eat more!
But yes, the actual amount of food required a day really varies depending on activity level, metabolism, age, etc. As long as you consistently weigh your fuzzies and they're not getting too fat or skinny, let them eat whatever amount they choose to.
One note from the proportions above - 10% heart is a minimum. Excess taurine gets excreted in their urine so you don't need to worry about over-feeding, and heart is generally really nutritious and ferrets seem to love it. The liver/other organ amounts are a maximum. They are necessary for Vitamin A, however Vitamin A will build up in a ferret's system and may cause toxicity over time. Generally this takes awhile and isn't a huge issue, but while it would be perfectly fine to feed, say, 20% heart, 20% liver/another organ would be a bad idea.
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Post by Celene on Mar 22, 2015 2:07:59 GMT -5
I'd also like to add that the general "dosage" of bonemeal for ferrets is 1/2 tsp per 8 oz of meat, although bone requirements also vary by ferret. The general rule is that is their poops are consistently loose/watery to increase the bonemeal, and to cut back if their poops are harder, gray or crumbly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 2:12:06 GMT -5
Thanks Celene, that helps a ton. I guess the serving size is really going to be based in trial and error. The percentages of muscle&heart/organ/bone is probably my biggest concern at this point. The gross weight of the whole meal will have to work itself out. That said, do you folks feed yours individually? I've been making soup every night and letting all 4 get crazy with it. About 80% of the time they eat ALL of it and lick the plate clean. But Raisin, who is probably the most receptive to raw, has gotten really plump lately.. I think she might be overeating.. I just got a kitchen scale, so I'll be weighing them regularly and recording the content of their meals to see if I can balance it out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 2:13:40 GMT -5
I'd also like to add that the general "dosage" of bonemeal for ferrets is 1/2 tsp per 8 oz of meat, although bone requirements also vary by ferret. The general rule is that is their poops are consistently loose/watery to increase the bonemeal, and to cut back if their poops are harder, gray or crumbly. Awesome, thanks so much. I was a little worried about bone meal as Raisin started fattening up shortly after I introduced it into their soup. I believe I read somewhere that it can be an issue if overdone..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 2:25:26 GMT -5
I always suggest feeding them separately. If one ferret gets sick, and they are VERY good at hiding it, a huge indication is their food and water intake. If you're feeding them all at once, you won't notice if one stops eating a lot. Ferrets can be known to "hover" and give the illusion of eating when they're actually just sitting there. Or they can be eating, but eating slower and therefor eating less. So its best to feed separately, and weigh meals before feeding while keeping a log of how much they eat to ensure everyone is eating good and if something changes or someone gets sick you can go back to your log and know of any decreased appetite or weight loss, as we recommend weighing weekly during the transition. Some may gain weight at first, and if they need to then they will, but if your ferret is overweight you may find them losing weight, and gaining muscle mass.
Also, when first starting you may find your ferret eating A LOT. My girl ate 8-10 ounces a day when firt switching. We figure this is from them gaining nutrients back that they lost while on kibble, and also the water content in their soup can do that too. Like let's say you blended 2 oz of meat with 2 oz of water, well, if they ate 4 ounces then they'd only be getting the nutritional benefit from 2 ounces of that. So, the more water you add, the more they may eat.
If they're finishing it all off then add more until their is around 0.5 oz left per ferret. Its very important they have some to snack on later, so leave the leftover out. The soup is good for 6-8 hours at room temp, and for 36-48 hours in the Fridge. And pretty much forever in the freezer.
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Post by Celene on Mar 22, 2015 10:49:55 GMT -5
Yup, it's completely normal for ferrets to eat a lot during the first few weeks of a transition. Part of it is that they're making up for nutrients they were deprived of on kibble, plus soup is just so easy for them to lap up. Once they're on chunks and bones they'll slow down because they have to chew I only have two so feeding them separately isn't really necessary (except for organ meals because I want to make sure they both eat their share and neither eats too much or eats none). If Raisin is being a bit of a hog, you can always give the others a head start too. Mocha got really plump during the beginning of her switch - at one point I wrote a really worried post on the facebook page because she ate so much she was waddling and her stomach felt very bloated and tight and she wasn't moving much... It was basically the ferret equivalent after a person after a giant turkey dinner! She's really slimmed down since though. She went from 1.45 lbs pre-raw, to 1.8 lbs at her highest and is now back down to 1.48 lbs.
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Post by gfountain on Mar 22, 2015 12:10:27 GMT -5
I'm late to the party here, but just want to clarify something. As Julesalot said, the basic percentages are 80% muscle meat, 10-15% bone, and 10% organ. However that percentage of bone is the amount of BARE bone that is needed. We don't feed bare bone. We feed bone with muscle meat attached, and we call it bone-in meat. This bone in meat makes up 50-65% of their diet, or 7-9 meals. Also, the 10% heart that is required is 10% of the TOTAL diet, not just 10% of the muscle meat.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 12:48:18 GMT -5
Mocha got really plump during the beginning of her switch - at one point I wrote a really worried post on the facebook page because she ate so much she was waddling and her stomach felt very bloated and tight and she wasn't moving much... It was basically the ferret equivalent after a person after a giant turkey dinner! She's really slimmed down since though. She went from 1.45 lbs pre-raw, to 1.8 lbs at her highest and is now back down to 1.48 lbs. OMG that's exactly what I did haha! I even ended up at the vet I was so worried. She poked at her tummy and told me she's 99% certain Raisin is just kinda.. well, fat. It was a relief but the rapid weight gain has still had me worried. Glad to know it's normal. Thank you for the clarification gfountain. All of these responses are exactly the information I was missing. Question on bones- while we are still in the soup phase I am using bone meal powder. Should I be doing anything special to be sure I am using the right amount? Or just weigh it? Is muscle blended with bone meal "bone in"?
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Post by Heather on Mar 22, 2015 12:54:36 GMT -5
If you're feeding soupy the ratio of bone meal is similar to powdered egg shell, which is 1/2 tsp to 8 Oz of meats (that's all the meats...meat, organ and hearts) ciao
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Post by Celene on Mar 22, 2015 12:58:05 GMT -5
During the soup phase there aren't different types of meals (i.e. organ, muscle, bone-in) since it's all mixed together.
The "official" soup recipe is:
8oz raw chicken thigh (raw) 1 oz raw chicken liver (or other raw liver) 1-2 raw chicken hearts (approximately 1 oz) or 1 oz other raw heart ½ to ¾ tsp bone meal or crushed egg shell (air-dry egg shell then crush with mortar and pestle or in a clean coffee grinder)
Weigh out your meat and organs. Add bone meal or egg shell. Add water until about the consistency of thick cream (no thinner!!). Blending up in a food processor is the easiest.
The best way to judge bone/bone meal requirements is by poop. As I said above, liquidy/loose poops means they need MORE bone, crumbly/gray/hard poops means they need less.
Once you move onto frankenprey you'll be feeding chunks of meat that contain edible bone (chicken wings/necks, rabbit, quail, etc.). Ferrets are pretty good at self-regulating so you just want to make sure you're not feeding JUST bone with little bits of meat attached, or large amounts of meat with not much bone. Most animals in the wild are built with about 10-15% bone so meat is generally in the right proportions to begin with. If your ferret consumes more bone than necessary their bodies will simply just not absorb it all and there will be chunks of bone in their poop.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 13:01:03 GMT -5
Perfect. Thanks!!
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Post by Celene on Mar 22, 2015 13:06:19 GMT -5
I don't know if you've found it yet (there is SO much information on here to sift through) but there is a really helpful thread with links to our google docs. They are a great reference and can also be accessed through the "files" section of the holistic ferret facebook page.
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