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Post by Heather on Mar 4, 2015 23:00:00 GMT -5
Name: Blue HF Forum Username: Blue Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: Definitely 1. During my obsessive research about all things ferret-related. There's a good chance it was here. 2. Frankenprey. In theory I'm interested in whole prey but I'm not sure I have the stomach for it. 3. a. Health b. Smell c. Beauty d. Poop (I'd forgotten that last one until I was searching for it!!) 4. Yes. I didn't start as soon as I got Maisie because I knew I had a lot of travel coming up. Things are quieter now. 5. 1 ferret, Maisie, female, close to 3 years old (birth approximately March 2012). I've had her for 7 months. Health problems: blockage surgery on Nov 24th and mild/moderate helicobacter gastritis discovered at that time. Her weight shot up after the surgery, probably recovery and winter weight combined. Her BG has been tested several times since I got her and it's all good. Her adrenal glands also looked good during the surgery. 6. Until 3 days ago, I was unsuccessfully trying to switch from Wellness CORE Cat to Orijen. I figured if I was having that much trouble, I might as well go directly to raw! Now she's on the transitional chicken soup. I used ground chicken instead of thighs (is that OK?) and human grade bone meal instead of eggshells. Treats: salmon oil. 7. She has ignored or taken offense to: baby chicken food, raw chicken breast, Rad Cat commercial raw grind, chicken broth, freeze dried liver treats, chicken jerky treats, wet cat food. 8. I'm her 3rd person. The 1st 6 months she was raised on Marshall's, then the next 2 years on Walmart's Wild Harvest. She had the detox smell when I switched her to Wellness CORE! 9. All the time 11. Yes Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentors (Ferretmomma & Bitbyter), will introduce themselves and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentors) so that your mentors can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentors and most of all relax and have fun :banana:. Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 10:39:58 GMT -5
Hi Blue! Jason ( bitbyter) and I are so excited to help you and Maisie through this journey! I briefly read through your 'unofficial' switching thread and it sounds like you 2 are on a great start! You can now start posting here Could you tell us about your daily routine with Maisie? What is she eating (solely soup or has she started on slivers?) Also, how are you making her soup? (ratio's and protein types) I think I remember seeing that you thought she had a chicken allergy, why do you think that? I see you're in Maryland-did you get all the snow they called for today? I'm in PA and I woke up to about 4 inches (the commute into work was longer than usual) but it should be 40 degrees on Saturday! Talk with you soon!! ~Katy
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Post by Blue on Mar 5, 2015 13:01:42 GMT -5
What a wonderful surprise! Thank you ferretmomma and bitbyter so much for being willing to help me through this! Current routine: I feed her on average 2 oz of soup in the morning and 2 oz in the evening. I make my soups with about 50% water so 2 oz of soup is about 1 oz of actual meat. I've also been adding warm water to that just before serving, because a) she prefers it warm and that's an easy way to do it, and b) she's been sick off and on and I'm paranoid about her being dehydrated. She never drinks out of the bowl I leave in her cage. Only soup so far, but she has eaten pieces that weren't very ground up. Soups I've made: - all chicken: 8 oz (thigh or ground), 1 oz heart, 1 oz liver, 1/2 tsp human grade bone meal - mostly lamb: 8 oz lamb muscle, 1 oz chicken heart, 1 oz chicken liver, 1/2 tsp bone meal - a few meals of just lamb muscle (4 or 5) with appropriate amount of bone meal - all pork: 8 oz ground pork, 1 oz heart, 1 oz kidney, 1/2 tsp bone meal We've been doing all pork and no liver since Tuesday evening -- up until now my organs were all liver and I found out about vitamin A toxicity (oops). I figured I'd reintroduce liver at 5% in about 7-10 days. The chicken sensitivity -- her health & energy since blockage surgery (11/24/14) has been so-so, and 3 days after starting raw it was bad enough that we went to the vet again (no connection and I'm pretty sure the raw helped her not be worse). She was given another 3 weeks of antibiotics for ongoing helicobacter gastritis. So for the first month she was on chicken soup & antibiotics and I thought the black pudding poops were due to gastritis/antibiotics. When we stopped the antibiotics, she still had the black pudding poops. When I switched to lamb for about a week, things seemed to clear up a bit. Then I went back to chicken and I saw the black pudding again. I don't know if it's the chicken, but I figured it's just as well to cut it out for now. I'm also worried about ulcers after all the antibiotics, and I know that could also be the cause of the black poops (although I haven't found any blood on them yet). I'm hoping to get her stable on one kind of meat and work from there. Snow: yes!! It's been snowing non-stop since this morning, and is supposed to go on for a while, up to 8 in. I guess I'm still not going to make it to that farmers' market this week! Katy & Jason, thank you so much for your help! I'm very relieved to have you looking over my shoulder
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 15:50:16 GMT -5
Aww poor thing- she (and you!) have been through a lot! I'm glad she's feeling better! For the all pork soup - is the heart and kidney also pork? (just curious) I'm not 'too' familiar with the food allergies/sensitivities, but Jason's girl taught him all about it! (sniff) I also would add warm water for my kids' soup. I swear, I never saw Zoey drink water so I made sure she had watery soup! Maybe try to pull her serving from the fridge 20 or so minutes before you feed her to lessen the water. That way it won't be cold and we can get her to love thicker soup How is her weight? I think my kids are started their spring weight loss, so I'm making sure to weigh the weekly to avoid panic (shy)
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Post by bitbyter on Mar 5, 2015 15:59:56 GMT -5
So is she having black pudding poops now?
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Post by Blue on Mar 5, 2015 20:15:28 GMT -5
I guess her health issues make me feel glad I rescued her from her previous owners Yes, the pork soup is all pork, heart & kidneys too. I figure if I'm trying to suss out food sensitivities I should stick to one meat at a time. I switched her to pork on Tuesday night, and she only had one black pudding poop after that. Today it's all good. I've been using various strategies to warm up the soup. I never serve it straight from the fridge! She just won't eat it cold. When it's cubes in a baggie I immerse them in hot water. I fantasize about having a little heated bowl for her! OK, no more added water. I think she'll eat it fine as long as it's at least tepid. Her weight is good -- she was gaining 2 oz a week on raw, and just finally leveled off last week at 1 kg (2.25 lbs). When I got her she was only 1.5 lbs so I think I won't panic when she starts losing weight... I got a pic of her eating a larger piece
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Post by bitbyter on Mar 5, 2015 21:15:39 GMT -5
Yes, if you suspect a sensitivity to chicken then do two weeks of a new protein and then switch back to chicken briefly. If the black poops return then you have pretty much confirmed it.
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Post by Blue on Mar 6, 2015 0:04:33 GMT -5
OK, so pork for the next two weeks, which is good, because pig organs being bigger than chicken organs, I have a lot! I gave her pork soup with no added water tonight, and after some finger feeding, she decided it was OK. I guess my next step is to buy pork muscle to make slivers (I only have ground right now). Any recommendations as to which part? She was very naughty tonight litterbox-wise, but I got to see two beautiful poops Thanks guys
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 11:16:34 GMT -5
For pork, well any meat for the ferrets really, I look for something on sale. I usually find roasts or boneless pork ribs are frequently reduced at one of our grocery stores. Since you already have ground pork, you could try blending the heart and kidney and pouring that over the ground? That way it is not such a shock to her trying bigger pieces and she will have to chew a little bit. You could try this method 2 or 3 feeding (depending how well she responds) and then move to slivers of meat? Think about it and let us know what you and Maisie think :thumbsup: Also, since she didn't fight the no water added, keep up with that! There is a lot of moisture in the meats, so she won't get dehydrated :heehee: We've been doing all pork and no liver since Tuesday evening -- up until now my organs were all liver and I found out about vitamin A toxicity (oops). I figured I'd reintroduce liver at 5% in about 7-10 days.bitbyter, since she was getting only liver in the beginning, it is okay that she stays away from liver this week?
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Post by Blue on Mar 6, 2015 13:40:23 GMT -5
Are there any pork parts that are more nutritious than others, like it's better to use chicken thigh over chicken breast?
This morning she briefly ground her teeth when she got up; she does this on occasion. I'm hoping it's the chicken sensitivity, although it could also be an ulcer or her teeth. She ground her teeth after drinking some cold water once. No wonder she wants everything tepid. I want to see how she does on raw before going back to the vet. Anyway, she had 2 oz soup with no water added, and then some ground pork straight. She ate a little bit but she might have been full by then.
I still worry about dehydration because even now with the raw and the watered-down soup, she still drinks a lot when I put her in the (clean and well-rinsed) bathtub. Maybe it's so she can mark her territory...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 15:07:12 GMT -5
I would think any pork meat would be fine/treated equally for her diet, but we'll see if Jason knows something I don't :bow: How frequently does she grind her teeth? You have mentioned being worried of an ulcer a few times and tooth grinding is a symptom of that Have you been able to look at her teeth for any tarter, decaying, a chipped tooth, etc? Are her poops still good today? I can understand wanting to wait to go back to the vet, but this might be a better sooner than later thing... I'm so glad she ate 2oz of soup with no water! And then some ground pork straight-That's terrific!!! Keep giving her her meals the same way and she'll be tackling slivers in no time! Ferrets are so funny aren't they? My Zekrom, the first thing he does when I let them out of the cage is he goes for the water dish that's connected to the "fence", aka, marshalls playpen that blocks the kitchen I don't know if he doesn't drink during the day or if he just wants to get super hydrated before playtime!
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Post by bitbyter on Mar 6, 2015 15:18:53 GMT -5
as long as the liver was in the amounts in the menu, I wouldn't worry about it. Vitamin A toxicity is just a possibility to be aware of but it takes a lot to cause harm.
As for the pork. Just stay away from the lean pork loins. Everything else is fine. Pork belly acutally has TO much fat though as it can cause really bad poops. I usually use pork shoulder. It's got a good fat to meat ratio.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 15:41:11 GMT -5
Ok good, thanks Jason!
The next time you get to the store, see if you can find pork liver and make the soup with 1oz heart, 1oz liver, and 8oz pork meat (you could even try 4oz ground and 4oz slivers?) and of course your bonemeal. :thumbsup:
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Post by Blue on Mar 8, 2015 18:51:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I got pork liver at the same time as the kidneys, I figured I would be needing it soon This evening I tried giving her biggish slivers with some egg, and she actually ate half a dozen of them! Definitely more chewing involved I was going to take a picture of her eating them, but got caught up cheerleading. I like to think my "good girl!"s encourage her. A pic of the ham omelet before below. Her weight has gone up again! Perhaps her body is now healing itself after the chicken (no black poops since Wed morning - chicken was stopped Tue night), and before it was healing itself from the kibble. Jan 19 835 g (1 lb 13.5 oz) started raw chicken soup Feb 01 875 g (1 lb 14.9 oz) Feb 08 905 g (2 lbs!!) Feb 15 975 g (2 lbs 2.5 oz) 1st time: raw egg, lamb Feb 22 1005 g (2 lbs 3.5 oz) 1 kg!! Mar 01 1005 g (2 lbs 3.5 oz) same weight Mar 08 1060 g (2 lbs 5.5 oz) started pork on Mar 3rd I need to get a pic of her teeth/mouth. Her teeth are pretty dirty. Hopefully it'll make a nice "before" picture. But that might be the source of the teeth grinding. I'm keeping a close eye on it (she only does it about once a day, either upon waking up, or after eating a meal) and we'll go to the vet if it continues.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 7:50:53 GMT -5
Woo Hoo! Great job to you both! I understand the "good girl" encouragement-I missed many photo opportunites myself doing that! :heehee: No black poops since starting the pork-I bet it was the chicken then I have heard that CGH (cornish game hen) is different from chicken? But we can tackle that when the time comes Her weight sounds great! What a sweet chunky monkey! You 2 are doing so well!!! That would be great if you can get a pic of her mouth/teeth. I really wish I did with my kids just to see the whole before and after. What is on the menu today? Are you going to stick with the same size slivers and soup?
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