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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 13:59:51 GMT -5
I figured I'd start this switch whilst I'm waiting for a mentor. Ferrets1. Ferret's name: Steve 2. Ferret's weight: Unsure; but the vet said he was a healthy weight, I'll weigh him tomorrow. 3. Ferret's age: Approx. 1 years old 1. Ferret's name: Peggy 2. Ferret's weight: Unsure; but the vet said she was a healthy weight, I'll weigh her tomorrow. 3. Ferret's age: Approx. 2 years old Background
I bought them both off of Gumtree (UK version of Craigslist basically) on Feb 14th 2015. Their previous owner said that he'd bought them for hunting, and has had them since they were both kits. He told me the reason for selling them was because he bought them for his son to go hunting, and they'd only ever been twice, and he was going to use them as working ferrets over the winter but just didn't have the time. They'd never been to the vet prior to us having them, so they've not got their vaccinations nor have they been neutered (we're unfortunately having to delay this due to me missing shifts at work), but the vet has given us some spot-on stuff for heartworms, tapeworms, etc. We've not applied this yet because we've been letting them settle in at their new home. Their previous owner fed them a steady diet of commercial dog/cat food (wet/meat), and so when we first got them their poop was basically covered in fatty deposits, that's since sorted itself out and their poop is more like kibble poop. Currently
We were feeding them James Wellbeing Ferret Kibble, but now we're switching them over to a raw diet. For treats, we give them Nature's Menu 95% Meat cat treats. Right now they're housed in two separate cages because mating season is a thing, and we just don't want kits. Because of this, they're limited to several 30 minute play seasons because we have to watch over them whilst they play just in case. PicturesFor getting this far, you guys deserve some pictures. Steve:  *There is a blanket there, Steve has just moved it*  Peggy:   |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 15:09:06 GMT -5
Steve and Peggy are just so cute.
If you can post some pictures of their teeth, there are ferrents who can age them by looking at their teeth.
Do you have all the ingredients for the soupie? In your intro, I gave you the basic soupie recipe.
That's where you want to start.
When you are ready, follow those directions and we'll see how they like the soupie.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 19:37:44 GMT -5
So I made some of the 'soupie*' for Peggy and Steve, and I hand fed a few spoonfuls to Peggy (I was afraid I'd be too scared to hold her, but wow, I've never felt so confident holding her) and then fed some to Steve; who ended up sticking his head into the cup I had the soupie in. It was pretty obvious from the way they were eating it off the spoon that they wouldn't need hand fed, or coaxing to eat this.   They had a portion that size between the two of them, and then I brought this up for them. During the first meal they ate the first one, and then about three or four hours later, I brought them out and they eat the second one. I'm wondering if after the 'soupie' that I've made up is finished, I could just start feeding them small chunks of meat? Some of the soupie has bone in it, and so depending on how they do with that bone, I'm wondering if I could possible just put down a chicken thigh for the two of them to eat. If not, I can give those thighs to the kittens or something. *Soupie Recipe 8oz Chicken thigh with bone 1 raw chicken liver 2 chicken hearts 1/4 egg shells (I realised after I made it that I didn't need it because of the bone with the chicken thigh) 1/4 cup of water |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 11:29:14 GMT -5
Peggy and Steve are off to such a good start. I loved seeing the pictures.
You do want to continue using eggshell powder. Chances are they won't be ready to handle the chicken bone. Ferrets can handle the Non Weight bearing bones of an animal the size of a chicken or smaller.
A thigh bone is tough, especially for new to bone ferrets. I graduated a Mentee (Dani) who has two boys who were fine with thigh bones, but that's a little unusual in the beginning.
The average male will eat 3-4 ounces a day, the average female will eat 2 ounces. If they leave food on the plate, then they probably are full. Spring is coming, so you may see a drop in their appetites.
However, in the beginning of a switch, they tend to eat alot. They are making up for lost nutrients from a kibble diet.
You're doing great so far.
:thumbsup:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 1:21:25 GMT -5
Peggy and Steve are off to such a good start. I loved seeing the pictures. You do want to continue using eggshell powder. Chances are they won't be ready to handle the chicken bone. Ferrets can handle the Non Weight bearing bones of an animal the size of a chicken or smaller. A thigh bone is tough, especially for new to bone ferrets. I graduated a Mentee (Dani) who has two boys who were fine with thigh bones, but that's a little unusual in the beginning. The average male will eat 3-4 ounces a day, the average female will eat 2 ounces. If they leave food on the plate, then they probably are full. Spring is coming, so you may see a drop in their appetites. However, in the beginning of a switch, they tend to eat alot. They are making up for lost nutrients from a kibble diet. You're doing great so far. :thumbsup: Thanks! I was surprised to see how well they did with the soupie that was made. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 1:26:59 GMT -5
Today's Meal: Chicken Soupie & Chicken Thigh Given how well they did with the soupie yesterday (it was gone in a matter of minutes with no coaxing needed), I figured I'd try them with the chicken thigh. I put both chicken thigh and chicken soupie out and let them see what they preferred. Steve went straight for the soupie, and Peggy went straight for the thigh. But Peggy kept switching between the two, and after the soupie was gone they started eating the thigh. It turns out there was a hunk of bone in the soupie, and Steve actually managed to chew through some of it - most impressed with him there.   From tonight's dinner.  The chicken thief, Peggy, during lunch.  Carpet snake Peggy during dinner.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 11:21:35 GMT -5
Wonderful pictures and videos.
It sounds like your two are naturals.
:bow:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 20:10:00 GMT -5
Feb 24th: They shared about 1.5 chicken's thighs between the two of them. For dinner, they ended up getting fed a little later, which resulted in a tug-o-war with the chicken thigh. I really wished I'd gotten that on camera. Steve is pretty happy to chew on some bone and eat it, he can't the whole bone, but he's getting there. Peggy, however, won't even entertain the idea of bone. But when I order in my next shipment of raw, I'll get the ferrets some chicken necks and see if that helps.
They also didn't poop for like two days :\ I don't know if that's something that normally happens when transitioning onto raw, but they did poop today so I'm not too worried. I'm not too worried about it being a blockage since both of them didn't poop. They're in separate cages and are supervised during playtime, so they couldn't have eaten anything without me knowing.
Feb 25th: I didn't feed them today, but my fiancee fed them the chicken soupie and said they ate it perfectly.
I think the next step is to get them to eat chunks of chicken/beef with some egg shells sprinkled on top. Then once they're eating that, add in some organs. Then once they're perfectly fine with eating those, I'll try them with the chicken necks, and after that we're home free! Once they're eating everything the should be eating, it'll be time to make up a meal plan for them and everything should be a-oh-kay.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 15:08:08 GMT -5
A thigh is probably still too much for them. We define bones as the Non Weight bearing bones of an animal the size of a chicken or smaller.
I do hear about ferrets who can handle the thigh, but yours are new to raw and need to build up their jaw strength.
Are you sure they didn't poop for two days? Could they be pooping in some other spot. A ferret has a fast digestive system and will poo every 3-4 hours.
Were they in their cages for two full days.
You're on the right track about the next step. Slivers are usually easier for them than chunks. So, you can pour some soupie with dried eggshell powder over some slivers. Start decreasing the amount of soup and increasing the sliver sizes. Once the soup is gone and they are eating just pieces of meat, then you can move onto the next step, which would be following the frankenprey menu.
With Organs, you want them to have ten percent of heart in their weekly menu.
Liver is five percent and the other organ is five percent.
We suggest one full meal of heart (muscle meat, not an organ)
One meal of Liver plus another organ
One meal of Liver plus another organ and a half meal of heart.
I'm going to borrow GFountain's intro to frankenprey for you to read. She is a teacher in her non ferret life and has a way of making things easy to understand.
FRANKENPREY
The goal with frankenprey is to mimic what a ferret would eat in the wild, with the correct balance of organs, muscle meats, and bones, using foods that you can find at your grocery store. Each part of a prey animal has a unique combination of vitamins and minerals that are essential to the health of your ferret. A long term imbalance in their diet can and will cause serious health issues, so it is critical that you plan your meals in advance to ensure that your little friends get the nutrition they need for a long and happy life.
When feeding frankenprey, there are 4 main PARTS of an animal that we need to feed to meet the diet requirements: muscle meat, heart, organs,and edible bones. Remember that at least 3 proteins are required for complete nutrition. Those 3 proteins should be in the meaty part of the diet, not in the organs. However, you should also have a good variety of sources for organs, not all chicken organs, or all beef organs.
1) Muscle meat is fairly self-explanatory. It is any kind of meat that is NOT an organ, including hearts and gizzards. When discussing muscle meat, however, we are typically referring to skeletal muscle.
2) While heart IS a muscle meat, it is a cardiac muscle rather than a skeletal muscle, and it is in a category by itself because it is a vital source of taurine in a raw diet.
3) Nutritional organs are considered to be any part of the body that SECRETES a hormone. Examples are liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas, reproductive organs, lungs, brains. Liver is the easiest organ to find and should make up at least half of the organ requirement. Other organs can be very difficult to find except directly from a butcher, cultural markets, or online sources. Neither hearts nor gizzards are organs. This is a very common misconception, so be aware of it when shopping for organs. Many meat department personnel and butchers commonly call hearts and gizzards organs, but they are NOT. They are muscle meats, AND heart is a separate requirement in a ferret’s diet (see above).
4) Edible bone is any bone small enough for a ferret to eat. Generally, these are non-weight bearing bones of poultry or small animals. Because we do not feed a bare bone, but rather one with plenty of meat attached, we sort of combine this category with muscle meat and call it “edible bone-in meat”. When I (or others) refer to “bone-in”, this is what we are talking about. If we refer to “muscle meat”, we mean meat that has no bone included (chicken breast, beef roast, etc.) Examples of edible bone-in meats are poultry wings, necks, backs, ribs, sometimes thighs, whole quail, whole Cornish game hen, rabbit, mouse, guinea pig. Sometimes you can find smallish bones from a larger animal that are small enough for a ferret to eat. One example is pork button bones, or pork riblets. Some of those bones are too dense, but occasionally you can find some small enough. Although the bone requirement is only 10-15% of the total diet (remember that we use the poops to determine the bone content), because the bone is attached to muscle meat, edible bone-in meat makes up the majority of a ferret’s diet. It is critical that your fuzzy learn to eat and enjoy bones, for healthy teeth as well as to meet the calcium requirements.
Now, moving on to the basic frankenprey menu:
Raw fed ferrets are generally fed twice a day, 12 hours apart, making a total of 14 meals per week. The basic weekly menu should include:
1 ½ meals of heart (~10% of the total diet)
1 ½ meals of organ, at least half of which must be liver (~5% liver, 5% other organ)
7-9 meals of edible bone-in meat (~50-60%)
2-4 meals of muscle meat with no bone (~15-30%)
When building your menu, you want to consider the effect a particular meal will have on the poops. For example, remember that blood rich meals (liver, other organs, hearts) cause looser poops, so to combat that issue, you want to feed at least one bone-in meal between them. It is best to spread organ/heart meals out as much as possible throughout the week.
This is easier than it sounds. Below is a sample menu (in the format I will want yours to be, when we get to the menu making part, once your ferret is eating all kinds of yummy stuff).
Sun AM: organ meal (½ liver, ½ other organ)
Sun PM: edible bone-in meat
Mon AM: edible bone-in meat (or muscle)
Mon PM: edible bone-in meat
Tues AM: heart
Tues PM: edible bone-in meat
Wed AM: muscle meat
Wed PM: edible bone-in meat
Thur AM: heart and organ (½ liver, ½ other organ)
Thur PM: edible bone-in meat
Fri AM: edible bone-in meat (or muscle)
Fri PM: edible bone-in meat
Sat AM: muscle meat
Sat PM: edible bone-in meat
You will take this basic menu and rearrange it to suit your needs, making sure to include at least 3 different proteins, and adjusting the bone-in meals depending on the poops. It is important to be flexible with your feedings. If you notice runny poops and have hearts planned for that meal, you can give a bone-in meal instead, and save the hearts for the following meal if their poops have firmed up. Don’t worry about not having something defrosted if you have to make a last minute change. Ferrets are perfectly content with ‘meat-sicles’. Some ferrets will require the full 9 meals of bone-in, while others only need 7, and this can vary from week to week depending on different factors. It won’t take long for you to figure out what YOUR ferrets need.
The easiest way to prepare meals is to have your meat separated into serving size portions (once you learn the correct amount for your business) in your freezer. Once you have your menu planned, it’s easy to grab one bag or container per meal. When you serve one meal, you can put the next meal into the refrigerator to thaw. It’s good to keep an extra bag or container of bone-in and muscle meat available in case you need to make a substitution, or your fuzzies beg for a snack.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 19:48:29 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't realise how much time had past since I last posted. Combine being in hospital and having to work some awkward shifts and it turns out I don't realise how time works.
They've been continuing to eat the raw, and loving it. I think our concern with not pooping was possibly just that their poops are less frequent and small compared to when they were on the kibble.
I know that you've said that a thigh bone might be a bit too much for them right now, but Steve was easily chomping through those before we ran out of them.
Since we ran out of thigh bones we decided to start giving them our cats' food, and they're loving it. They're taking to the meat and organs like they've been eating it their entire lives, and in fact, right now they're having a meal of hearts and loving it.
Tomorrow I'm going to try them with 1/2 a duck's neck each to see how they get on with that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 14:45:59 GMT -5
So I've made up my Frankenprey menu, and was hoping someone could take a look at it?
Mon AM: 42g of Beef
Mon PM: Chicken Neck
Tue AM: 42g of Chicken Hearts
Tue PM: Chicken Wing
Wed AM: 42g of Chicken
Wed PM: 1/2 Duck Neck
Thur AM: 21g Heart (Non-Chicken) & 10g Chicken Liver & 10g Ox Kidney
Thur PM: Chicken Neck
Fri AM: 42g of Beef
Fri PM: Chicken Wing
Sat AM: 42g of Chicken
Sat PM: 1/2 Duck Neck
Sun AM: 21g of Liver (Non-Chicken) & 21g of Kidney
Sun PM: Chicken Wing
So that's the menu I'll be using starting March 16th (I'm on holiday March 11 - 12th so I wouldn't have time for the shipment to defrost and get made up). Also, can ferrets eat pork? I've heard mixed opinions on this one. I'm not talking about bacon, but rather I can get pork chunks for a really good price and it'd help vary their diet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 15:10:16 GMT -5
Your menu plan looks good.
You have four proteins, chicken/beef/duck/ox
You have a red meat in there, hooray for red meats.
You have a full heart meal and a half heart meal.
Then you have two organ meals.
Very nice job.
Yes, ferrets can eat pork. It's a favorite of my five. I look for a nice fatty cut of pork and it falls into the muscle meat category.
The more variety the better.
You are right, bacon would not be a good idea. Avoid any processed meats.
Heather will approve your final menu and she will look for a little more detail in your menu.
For example, you would want to list what each meal is, like this:
Sunday
a.m. Organ meal (type of protein) Liver plus (type of protein) kidney
p.m. Bone In meal Chicken wing
:thumbsup:
You did great!
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Post by katt on Mar 29, 2015 0:24:51 GMT -5
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Post by Heather on Mar 30, 2015 16:06:01 GMT -5
Congratulations :beer:
You have the foundation to help you feed your fuzzes in a more natural and healthy manner. Please remember that your learning never stops, and dietary needs change from ferret to ferret and throughout their lives. I would like you to be aware that though you now have the capability and the knowledge to create your little ones diets you are never alone. The list is very good resource and you should always be aware that it's available to answer any questions you may have either about diet or care.
Your menu looks good. I would continue to add various types of proteins as the more varied the diet the more you cover their nutrtitional needs
Great job :goodjob:
ciao
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Post by katt on Mar 30, 2015 16:43:57 GMT -5
Congrats! (dance)
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