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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 18:24:33 GMT -5
I am interested in knowing if anyone has used any natural treatments for managing insulinoma. I have a (raw-fed) ferret who has been taking first prednisolne (2.5 years) and then diazoxide (8 mos) to manage his insulinoma.
Being raw-fed, I suspect he has been in continuous "detox" from the medications. He is now having digestive issues and is no longer interested in whole prey or ground raw meat/bones/organs. I would like to reduce or eliminate medications in favor of a more natural solution and maybe heal some of the damage from the medications.
As insulinoma is an endocrine system issue, hormones obviously play a large role. He is a late surgical alter and has had deslorelin implants in the fall of 2012 and 2013. He has not had an implant this year due to availability. So normalizing the hormones is a challenge as well (have bioidentical hormones ever been used on ferrets?)
So as I see it the challenge is to manage the hypoglycemia, normalize the hormones and heal the gut.
Any thoughts?
Thanks!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 18:40:00 GMT -5
Wish I knew, sorry; the medical terms are over my head. Not yet educated, as my 'little guy' is newly diagnosed Insulinoma, taking 'dexamethasone' 2x daily for less than a month. The vet gave me some 'natural drops' for tummy upsets for my other ferret. I have read that they can take a medicine for ulcers that may develop too. (my understanding but wait to hear from someone w/more experience) If there are natural treatments would love to know too, but I would fear taking him off meds' in case it caused tumors to grow. I look forward to also hearing too. Wish you the best  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 18:47:08 GMT -5
Hi and Welcome to the HFF  I'm sorry to hear that your little one has Insulinoma. As you know, managed properly you can buy much more time for him. What is his name? This is a link to a very good overview of Insulinoma. It covers alot of information and does discuss some holistic approaches. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/2702/insulinoma-overviewThere are other links available and sometimes the best way to search the forum is to go to your windows browser and type in Holistic Ferret Forum Insulinoma, and that will bring up other threads about your subject. I hope that we can help you find some answers and I send your little guy, all my Best Wishes. |
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Post by bitbyter on Dec 1, 2014 21:02:57 GMT -5
I think you are getting insulinoma and adrenal disease confused. Adrenal is an endocrine issue. Insulinoma is a issue with the pancreas and the amounts of insulin being produced. Ferrets can certainly have both but they are different systems.
Other than the meds and a raw diet of frequent meals there isn't much more you can do to manage insulinoma. Adrenal can be managed with the des implant or lupron injections. In later stages melatonin is often added to assist.
I believe there are some more holistic things you can do to assist the medications but he does need to be on medications for both these issues. There really isn't any getting away from that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2014 13:35:45 GMT -5
My guy began showing symptoms 3.5 years ago and I waited 9 months before starting him on prednisolone (0.1ml bid 5mg/ml susp). I switched him (two week switchover) to diazoxide (0.08ml bid 50mg/ml susp) because the pred had caused him to loose much of his muscle and he had lost most of his hair. He regained both hair and muscle very quickly on the diazoxide but is experiencing the side effects. I will search the board for additional discussions about insulinoma - I had already read most of the pinned posts on the topic. Insulin is a hormone produced by the pancreas; Insulinoma is considered an endocrine system disease as is adrenal disease. Here is a link to an article by Dr. Jerry Murry that explains the endocrine system. www.smallanimalchannel.com/ferrets/ferret-health/endocrine-system.aspx |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 18:47:03 GMT -5
I thought that Diazoxide was to be used alongside of Pred. Did your vet suggest the Diazoxide replace the Pred?
What side effects is the little guy experiencing?
What kind of digestive upset does he have? You had him on Prednisolone which is easier than Pred, and I would think that you're Vet explained about feeding him before administering the Meds. Could he have Ulcers?
I have little experience with Meds or illness. My five are young and healthy. My first ferret Ponce developed Insulinoma and we had him on Prednisolone and Diazoxide, but we lost him to Lymphoma. I'm keeping an eye out though and if I come across any useful info, I'll post to your thread.
I wish you and your little one all the Best.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 18:54:03 GMT -5
It's really about how much the benefits outweigh the sideaffects. Prednisone did a lot to my girl, she was on a large dose and had hair loss, muscle loss and nerve damage. She took Diazoxide with it, when I attempted decreasing her Pred by .1 ml she seized all day long, the benefits outweighed the awful sideaffects, so we kept her on both.
Generally it is used with Prednisone because it's hard to get them off Pred without them seizing, and Diazoxide is so expensive.
My Vet did not tell me I needed to feed before giving Pred, so I never knew, and my girl developed ulcers because of it. When he prescribed Carafate, he didn't tell me to give it 45 min before pred, so it didn't really help.
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Post by Desiree on Dec 3, 2014 19:11:24 GMT -5
My vet said nothing to me either! I've been following this thread too.
Good thing is since I'm switching her I don't want her to associate food with meds so I've been feeding her an hour before giving her the pred.
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Post by bitbyter on Dec 3, 2014 22:24:19 GMT -5
I stand corrected. I had no idea the pancreas was considered a gland as well as an organ.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 19:52:49 GMT -5
His BG was well managed with the pred (fairly low dose)and we gradually reduced it over two weeks while introducing Diazoxide. The vet initially prescribed 0.15ml Diazoxide but he had some issues with racing heart so we cut it in half. Just this month it's been increased to 0.10ml.
I am hoping that if I can't find a natural way to manage it and the diazoxide loses it's effectiveness I could move him back to pred again. I've always fed both with food - eat, wait ten minutes, meds, offer more food. I also usually give him a small lick of coconut or fish oil right before.
The digestive issues are similar to leaky gut - his list of proteins that make him "itchy" after eating is increasing. I'm concerned this will eventually develop into intestinal lymphoma. It's difficult to constantly try to heal the gut when daily meds are involved.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 13, 2014 23:02:06 GMT -5
Diazoxide is indeed better than pred if it works. Although more expensive it has far fewer side effects.
Unfortunately once they reach the stage of needing meds, natural methods are no longer effective.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 13, 2014 23:03:51 GMT -5
Out of curiosity- are you certain he doesn't also suffer from adrenal? Insu and adrenal often go hand in hand and hair loss does not have to be present for it to be adrenal. The itchiness alone makes me suspect it
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 20:09:01 GMT -5
Yes, he does also show signs of adrenal, now that his hair grew back after switching off the pred. He was due for his 3rd annual DES implant this fall but.... (sigh). There is also the general adrenal itching but he will also now scratch his abdominal area soon after eating.
I also had "leaky gut" and know that when I ate something that "leaks" I got an itchy light rash on my abdomen.
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Post by Heather on Dec 18, 2014 23:23:28 GMT -5
If he's adrenal then to get things to balance out you're going to have to resort to using lupron. Only by getting his adrenal under control are you going to be able to consider anything different regarding his insulinoma meds. The lack of DES is causing many of us issues in being to effectively treat our adrenal kids but realizing that the old lupron is still a viable option needs to be looked at. One of the major side effects of adrenal is the horrible itchies that come with it. Melatonin helps when used in conjunction with both DES and lupron. Once the DES is available you're probably going to have to resort to using it every 6 months instead of annually as most of us have discovered that waiting the full 9 months to a year for treating adrenal is much too long and allows the adrenal to progress at a very rapid rate.
ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2015 20:59:30 GMT -5
I meant to update more frequently but there were some significant developments with this guy plus I had another guy with major issues (a topic for another thread).
On 12/22 he had a Lupron injection - from the invoice, it looks like it was 300mcg. Although the vet said it was a 3-month injection, should he be getting this amount monthly instead? (It seems I read somewhere that when going to Lupron from Des that it needed to be more frequent,) Again, he has had 2 prior Des implants and was due for a 3rd in October.
The lupron relieved the adrenal symptoms very quickly; however, because of some additional issues, I can't say if the digestive problems are any better. I'd like to get the answer to how often he should have Lupron first then I can get into the other, very interesting developments. Thanks!!!
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