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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 8:06:50 GMT -5
My wee girly is booked in for her implant on the 16th December. I was just wondering if anyone has kept there Jill intact and only use the implant instead of eventually spaying? My vet said it lasts 2 years and will have to be replaced each time which I really don't mind. I would love it if she never had to be spayed as I know this greatly reduces the risk of adrenal. However I wasn't sure on whether the implant could be a permenant solution or not? Feedback appreciated!  |
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Post by Heather on Nov 26, 2014 15:06:29 GMT -5
I've heard of varying results from using the DES as a chemical spay. One thing to remember as well is that it was tested on hobs not jills so their conclusions (even on the short study do not apply to jills). They've been using it now for awhile in Europe and Australia with varying results. I've heard of some side effects, but they appear to be less common. The preferred method at the moment is to allow a season, use the DES to bring the jill out wait for a year, spay and then use the DES as a preventative. I'm not sure where this will all lead. I've known a couple of people who've used the DES on a jill and never have her come back into season again.
ciao
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Post by unclejoe on Nov 26, 2014 20:47:27 GMT -5
What would the Des be preventing? Adrenal? What is the incidence of adrenal in Europe? Does anyone have any statistics? Just curious. A couple people I've chatted with in UK say it's not that prevalent there. Reading your post, Heather, I was thinking you were suggesting des to prevent going into heat, but spaying would fix that, no?
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Post by Heather on Nov 26, 2014 22:12:02 GMT -5
The incidence of adrenal is happening more and more in the UK and Europe as more and more ferrets are altered and living indoors and being fed kibbles, a much less natural lifestyle. I don't know the stats but I know vets are feeling the pressure. As altering at any stage has now been proven to cause adrenal, the use of DES is becoming more wide spread. It can take a jill out of season, it can be used as a chemical castration, it can help possibly prevent adrenal disease. What some vets are pushing to allow a jill to allow her to come into season, take her out with DES, then before her next season is due to alter her (because the DES unlike a jill jab will not allow her to come in again that season). Once altered she will then be treated with DES for the rest of her life as a preventative. By employing the DES in this manner you cover 2 of the 3 possible components that have been proven to cause adrenal....altering, lighting and diet. The question comes in as to how effective the DES is at preventing adrenal. Thus far vets are stating it holds considerable promise.
ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 7:29:00 GMT -5
Well when I was talking to the vet, she said they tend go down the des implant route now instead of castration as, like Heather said, the link between castration and adrenal has actually been proven. I'm just really confused and admit I dont understand enough about how or when it should be used. I think the vet is treating it as a chemical castration, but Kaiju won't be coming into heat first? Is that normal? I don't think my vet has any intention to surgically alter her either which is what made me question if it could be a permenant solution. As for diet, ive been on so many Belgian forums and feeding raw is not really done here. So I wouldn't be surprised if adrenal cases are higher here. I dont know statistics but it would be interested to compare. Maybe I can show it to my vet as another argument as to why I feed raw (although you would think it would be obvious, right?)!
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Post by Heather on Nov 27, 2014 8:59:51 GMT -5
I don't know how much diet affects the disease but their chances of living longer or managing to recuperate from the secondary diseases that are affected by adrenal are better. Unfortunately, I'm in the gray too as to timing and here lies the argument. My understanding was to allow the ferret as long as possible without interference until after their first season. For wee girlies obviously this is going to only entail to their first season as they cannot be left in, while hobs can be left in season (so living out their full first year is as possible as the ferrant can survive it  ) There are some articles out there explaining their position and their reason for how it's to be timed but there is enough ambiguity that it makes it difficult to take a position on just which timing is correct ciao |
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Post by bitbyter on Nov 27, 2014 9:56:09 GMT -5
Yep, the lack of research on ferrets strikes once again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 10:55:41 GMT -5
I'm wondering if I should wait until she shows signs of coming into her first heat next spring. She's only 4 months, but the vet didn't seem worried about her age. There are so many grey areas in ferrenthood, its so hard to know what's right and when to trust your vet when making certain decisions! Thanks for your input everyone  |
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Post by Heather on Nov 27, 2014 21:24:51 GMT -5
You mean he wanted to use the DES on her now? I wouldn't. I personally would wait until she comes into season in the spring. Four months old....she's just a baby. No, definitely not in my opinion. Your little one isn't close to being full grown yet. She's got another 5 or 6 months before she's even considered sexually mature, much less physically mature....my guys were still growing at a major rate and they're 6 months of age.
ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 8:26:29 GMT -5
Yes on the 16th December. I'm going to go with your advice though and cancel it and re book it at a later date. How long after she comes into season should I take her? Or is it at first signs? I thought it was too young. Maybe I should look for another vet, although she is the only small animal specialist I have found here so far. She keeps ferrets too, but I guess they just do things differently here. I should have stayed in the UK |
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Post by Heather on Nov 28, 2014 15:00:02 GMT -5
You're going to find a wide spread of opinions regarding this matter and mine is only one of many. I got royally chewed out by an older breeder because of my opinion. She told me quite flately that altering a ferret before his/her first season didn't cause any problems at all and that I shouldn't be telling people to alter their ferrets at an older age. Her standard alter age was 4 to 5 months, before the kit came into season. Kits always come in early...think of them as randy teenagers lol. It's hard when you come against old time breeders and vets. Rescues aren't happy with this stand either as it means you have to be responsible. I feel the responsibility lies with the ferrants to realize their possibilities and their options. You're doing a good job at digging out the information. As far as changing vets....if you like her and she's up on most information that's fine that you don't agree on everything. Our questions make them think, delve deeper (if they're worth your money) My vet and I don't agree on everything but I make her back her statements up. Most times we often meet in the middle, sometimes we're not even on the same page, but I like her, she doesn't pull any punches and I don't get offended. We've had some hearty discussions about various things. I've taught her some things, she's taught me ...it's all good
As far as timing, the DES can be implanted as soon as you notice her vulva swelling. If you're going with a jill jab 12 days is the recommended wait time.
ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 17:50:43 GMT -5
Thanks Heather. I do like my vet, and even though we don't agree on everything, I feel confident she is up to date with current information. And I must admit she is really good with Kaiju who can be a bit unsure with strangers. It is hard though not having alot of experience with ferrets and trying to stand up for what I feel is right. I try do as much research as I can but I do wonder what she is thinking sometimes! Probably, oh no another rebelious raw feeder who wants to question everything haha. She also thinks Kaiju is overweight. Which I have wondered myself. She is quite big for a 4 and a half month female, but shes so energetic and only eats what she is supposed to so I'm hoping its just because its winter and she's got a long fluffy coat!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 15:13:49 GMT -5
For whatever it's worth. Teddy is big and fluffy, he has been solidly built since I've got him, but he put on a bit of belly weight. I think that it may have made it more likely to put stress on his spine. I only add this because disc disease has made his life more painful, especially since he can't use his hindquarters properly now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 22:49:02 GMT -5
Ok so I have a spayed/descented ferret. Would the implant be effective for her as well? Sadly, she's a Marshall
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Post by msav on Dec 15, 2014 23:45:16 GMT -5
I have two 6 year old Marshalls ferrets(male and female). They have been implanted every year of their lives, still no signs of adrenal. Knock on wood.
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