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Post by katt on Oct 29, 2014 15:46:13 GMT -5
Ah okay Steph, I hadn't heard of that before. *shrugs* Go for it. I mostly want them switched onto frankenprey, because I'm spending so much on meat for soup. Before I started the switch I was under the impression it would only be $40-$50 per month or less which was completely fine and I can afford that, nope, it's been over $100 per months and so I've spent around $250 on meat in two months and that's not something I can keep paying, I can barely care for them with their medicines and vet bills and with their food costing this much I don't know how much longer I can go with missing payments on everything for their food. My mother believes the raw is making them sick since Caillou got gingivitis after it and Juliet developed insulinoma, she doesn't understand those are kibble related, and she's realizing how much it's costing, something I was trying to hide. Hard to be lectured on money almost every day, when there is nothing I can do about it. Well part of the problem is when they are first switched to raw they eat a LOT. Their little bodies are trying to make up for all of the nutrient they weren't getting from the kibble. After they have been on raw a while, this slows down as they cut back to eating more normal amounts. Also, it sounds like you are not shopping in bulk. If you are always going to the store for more small packs of meat, then it is a lot more expensive. It is MUCH more cost effective to go to the store and buy in bulk. Get meats that are on sale, and buy large packs. How much freezer space do you have? I usually go to the store and buy $100-150 of meat in one go, divide it up into meal-sized portions in ziplock bags, store it in the freezer, and then grab a bag for each meal. Once you are on Frankenprey too, you can buy whole birds which is even less expensive than packs of parts. For example I can get a small pack of wings for about $7, or I can buy an entire chicken with significantly more meat for $7-10. Do you guys have a SamsClub or CostCo membership? If so, go there - you can get bulk packs of meat. Also also, it sounds like you are buying some relatively expensive meats. I don't know about where you are, but quail for me is typically fairly spendy. And lamb is $$$$$. These are GREAT meats for them to get, but if money is an issue there are plenty of less expensive meats that you can feed. You can always keep the quail and lamb as a rare mix-in for variety. And do some shopping around - call different stores in your area and ask about their meat prices. Search for butchers and inquire about organs and meat trimmings. Search your are for Asian and Halal Markets. Best way to do it is google in the format of market, city, state: "Halal Market, Seattle, WA", "Asian Market, Miami, FL" etc. As for your mom, have you tried to get her onto the forum? Send here here to do some reading. For Juliet, show her this (click the link to download the PDF): holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/16664/insulinoma-docAnd Katt, why does Caillou act like he hates his food? It takes several minutes and me pushing it up to his face to get him to eat and even then he won't finish without my help. And he HATES slivers, he avoids them at every cost. Why? He's so weird. Even little tiny ones. Because he doesn't know it's food yet. This is extremely normal ferret behavior. It is FAR more normal for kibble ferrets to act like this than to switch as fast as Marcie. Someone on the FB page had a good description of it. Imagine that you grew up eating nothing but chocolate chip cookies. That was the ONLY food you have ever eaten and the ONLY food that everyone you knew ate - you had never even HEARD of a different kind of food before. Then one day someone shows up and is like hey, those are really bad for you you need to eat some broccoli and spinach...and then someone puts a plate of steamed little green trees and leaves in front of you and says "eat this." How do you think YOU would feel? Ferrets imprint on their food. It takes time to convince them that meat is indeed edible, and even more time to convince them to enjoy it. But once they do, it is amazing - they take so much joy in their food (and get so much health from it). Getting them to go from soup to chunks is usually the hardest part of the switch, so you are right in the tough part. It's a totally new texture for them! Hang in there and don't give up. This is the hardest and most stressful part of the switch. It can take a while, but they WILL Get there - as long as you stick with it I can absolutely promise that - and I almost never make promises. For now, hand feed. During the switch I often encourage a fair amount of hand feeding to introduce new things (slivers for example). But once they start accepting it more easily, then wean off the hand feeding to eating on their own. This means a lot of on-and-off hand feeding but will also result in a very close bond with them. Hand feeding often does a lot to speed up the process. I think he's been on pork for 7 days now, I'm pretty sure it was when he started taking Baytril. Okay so he's been on pork a week, his poops look good and his gums are improving. NORMALLY I would wait another week, but he is doing really well and pork isn't the cheapest meat so we'll try something new now. I usually don't like to start with the suspected allergy meat right off the bat, but I do respect that chicken is the easiest to find. What other meats can you get locally that aren't too spendy? Would turkey be an option? (Both access and financially)? If not we Can try chicken next. Let me know, and I'll tell you what you can try next. Should I get any other meats or just pork for now? I was gonna get quail for the bones for Marcie and Jules. Honestly, I would wait on the quail and even the CGH. I know I said that it's okay to try skipping steps, but neither of them are eating chunks yet, much less bones. If you are trying to save money, it would be better to hold off on buying foods that they aren't really eating yet since it will just go to waste. No sense in feeding the trash can AND their bellies. Every time I read someone tell me I'm doing great I start to cry, I'm such a wreck right now Im not sure why it's just hitting me about everything thats going on. I'm going to the chiropractor today, maybe that'll make me feel better. Fingers crossed I don't go completely insane.Hang in there. You really are doing great. Like I said, this is the most difficult part of the switch. You can and will get through this. You have just gone through a LOT with Juliet, Caillou's gums, adding a third ferret... It's a lot of stress. Take some deep breaths and take care of yourself. Remind yourself that you are doing the right thing for your babies, and that you are doing an AMAZING job of it!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 16:04:57 GMT -5
I can't shop in bulk, because I don't have enough money we have to spread it out to make sure we have enough to feed our family through 2 weeks until we get paid again. I'm spending around $30+ a week on just muscle meat. We have a Sam's Club membership, I didn't know they sold bulk meat, I can look, I'd like to buy in bulk, but it's up to my mother. She sees a big number and doesn't like to spend money all at once, she likes to spend little amount at different times even if the big number once is cheaper :face: it's just how she thinks. Quail is about $10=$12 for a 6 pack, last time I got it lasted about 6 weeks. Lamb I only bought once, it was $10 for 1 pound. They haven't eaten it in weeks. I am having a VERY hard time finding places that sell organs, and places that have cheap meat. The only turkey I can find is ground. There is only one Asian market within about 45mins-1hr from me, and last time I went they said they had organs but didn't they are supposed to have pork heart and liver so I'm going tomorrow to get it. I've called about 20 butcher shops, they won't give me organs, I didn't ask about muscle or bone in meats. I figured in 2 months Caillou would realize it's food, I guess not. Dumb and smart at the same time. He used to like his food though, mostly when it had ferretone in it.. LOL. I'll try and hand feed them again, I can't always do it, I don't have time sometimes. It takes them each about 20 minutes to eat, that's 1 hour to feed all of them. I can get beef fairly cheep I think.. believe it or not I have a hard time finding boneless chicken, I hate cutting meat off the bone because it takes forever and a lot of the weight comes from it (cause they charge by weight), not to mention the immense shoulder pain I get when I over work myself making their food, it takes several hours because I have to be careful. I haven't found any turkey that isn't ground though. Thank you Katt, and Stef. I'm trying to be a good ferrent to them, and keep my sanity at the same time. Most times I can hold it together pretty good, but not today and certainly not yesterday either. I'm going to let Marcie and Caillou out now, maybe they'll be idiots and trip all over each other and brighten my day, they always do.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 16:59:09 GMT -5
Marcie was getting hungry because she was licking her empty food bowl, so I decided I would let them have a snack time, as it's 5hrs before dinner, so I cut up some pork slivers about the length of a quarter and width of a pencil or thinner and put .3 ounces on 3 separate plates. Caillou and Marcie were out running around so I put the plates down on the floor and they ran up, Caillou licked the water off the plates and sniffed the slivers and ran off. Marcie grabbed a sliver and ate it and grabbed another and ate it, altogether I'd say she ate about .3 ounces but she ate off of every plate, and picked up certain slivers. I sat in the floor and picked them up and offered them to her off and on for about 10 minutes and she would usually take one every time I offered, I was so very proud!
Caillou would maybe lick them, but he looked at me like "You want me to EAT that? Pshttt". I drizzled a little bit of ferretone over it, just a few drops and offered it to Juliet. I'm pretty sure she just licked up the ferretone but she may have eaten a sliver or two, I wasn't watching her.
Marcie will come up to the plate and take one every now then (giggle)
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Post by katt on Oct 29, 2014 17:10:01 GMT -5
I can't shop in bulk, because I don't have enough money we have to spread it out to make sure we have enough to feed our family through 2 weeks until we get paid again. I'm spending around $30+ a week on just muscle meat. We have a Sam's Club membership, I didn't know they sold bulk meat, I can look, I'd like to buy in bulk, but it's up to my mother. She sees a big number and doesn't like to spend money all at once, she likes to spend little amount at different times even if the big number once is cheaper :face: it's just how she thinks.Ah that is unfortunate. Any way you could sit down and show her the math? That won't work if you need the $ that week for your own food though. Quail is about $10=$12 for a 6 pack, last time I got it lasted about 6 weeks. Lamb I only bought once, it was $10 for 1 pound. They haven't eaten it in weeks. I am having a VERY hard time finding places that sell organs, and places that have cheap meat. The only turkey I can find is ground. There is only one Asian market within about 45mins-1hr from me, and last time I went they said they had organs but didn't they are supposed to have pork heart and liver so I'm going tomorrow to get it. I've called about 20 butcher shops, they won't give me organs, I didn't ask about muscle or bone in meats.Okay, that's not too bad for Quail then. Lamb is always spendy. lol Ask the butchers about trimmings - fat, meat, flesh. Even if it's boneless, that is needed meat too. Ground turkey is expensive. Yick. Okay, let's do chicken then. At least we know he handles pork well, so we have a backup. What type of chicken do you have on hand? Or do you need to go get more? I figured in 2 months Caillou would realize it's food, I guess not. Dumb and smart at the same time. He used to like his food though, mostly when it had ferretone in it.. LOL. I'll try and hand feed them again, I can't always do it, I don't have time sometimes. It takes them each about 20 minutes to eat, that's 1 hour to feed all of them. Yes, hand feeding is time consuming but it does speed things up. Don't forget that we just changed Caillou's protein too so it's not 2 months, it's really a only a week in his mind. Do what you can, but don't overload myself. What is your typical day like - Are you in school? Work? Trying to get a feel for your daily schedule so maybe I can offer some suggestions to help lighten the stress on your daily routine. I usually have a pretty intense schedule, so I've acquired a few skills in time management and stress reduction over the years. I can get beef fairly cheep I think.. believe it or not I have a hard time finding boneless chicken, I hate cutting meat off the bone because it takes forever and a lot of the weight comes from it (cause they charge by weight), not to mention the immense shoulder pain I get when I over work myself making their food, it takes several hours because I have to be careful. I haven't found any turkey that isn't ground though.Check the freezer section instead of the meat section. In FACT - go to Sam's Club - they sell giant bags of frozen boneless chicken breasts or chicken thighs for $7-8. Super good deal. It's great for human or ferret dinners. The meat is boneless so super easy to make soup and slivers with, and you can make some awesome chicken-dinners with them for yourself too. So maybe since they will serve a double-purpose your mom won't mind buying them so much. Beef is a very strong tasting meat and typically takes them a bit longer to get used to, but if you want to give beef a shot next instead of chicken, we can certainly do that. Just let me know. Thank you Katt, and Stef. I'm trying to be a good ferrent to them, and keep my sanity at the same time. Most times I can hold it together pretty good, but not today and certainly not yesterday either. I'm going to let Marcie and Caillou out now, maybe they'll be idiots and trip all over each other and brighten my day, they always do.Ferrets can be stressful pets. They are also very expensive pets unfortunately. I've emptied my bank account into the vet's bank account many times over. LOL You are doing a wonderful job. What do you normally do for stress and anxiety? I have a lot of anxiety myself, it is something I have struggled with my whole life. I have generalized Anxiety and I have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I find that for me meditation (When I remember to do it regularly lol) is really helpful in keeping my stress level down. Exercise is even better! I go nuts if I can't get exercise regularly, my anxiety goes through the roof. Maybe going on a run when you get stressed out, or practicing some meditation would help. Also, if you are in school you may consider looking into what resources they offer - most schools offer free counseling. Counseling is something that can be very beneficial to ANYONE. Being able to talk to someone about whatever is stressing you out can take a huge weight off of your shoulders and as professionals the counselor/therapist should be able to help you work on some stress management coping skills. And of course snuggling a ferret is always beneficial! haha Anyways, just a few things that you could consider if the stress is really overwhelming you. You can't take care of the ferrets if you don't take care of yourself first!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 17:32:39 GMT -5
Sit my mother down and talk about money? I would MUCH rather jump into a pit of hungry sharks, it would be less painful (mentally). She can go on a rant about how expensive I am and how poor we are for hours. Talking about it makes her furious.
I'll call the butchers sometime soon about fats and skins and such. I have several pounds of chicken thigh on hand frozen right now. And chicken heart and liver.
My typical day widely depends on what my mom is doing that day. I'm home schooled (I'm 14, if you didn't know) my school work doesn't take very long, a few hours. I get up at around 9am and feed them around 10am, do the litter boxes, let Marcie out and if Caillou is awake let him out, if Marcie is asleep I let Caillou and Juliet out together. I have to supervise their entire play time because they will both chew on everything if I don't, Marcie is really bad about cords. If we babysit my niece that day, which we do almost every day, I go to pick her up at 12:15, and get back about 12:45, if we don't need to run errands, if we do run errands, I won't be home for several (3-4+) hours. If not, come home and start school work. Then around 4-5pm I clean the mess the ferrets made, litter box check, snack if their hungry, and let Juliet out to play while Marcie is up. I go to the chiropractor and to a muscle therapist every week alternating, those take about 2-3 hours. Like I said it widely depends on what I need to do that day, I don't have a set schedule, it's a lot of times different. Some days I don't go anywhere and am here all day, those are the day I clean and such.
My stress comes from my mother, in complete and utter honesty. She stresses me out so much over life, she tells me of everything that is going on with us financially, and lectures me almost every single day on money, all I hear is how we don't have any money, how I spend so much money, how the ferrets cost so much, how the dogs cost so much, etc etc. If it's not money, she's complaning to me about how much pain she's in or how bad she feels that day. My mother has fibromayalgia (I do too) and depression caused by it, also low iron, hypothyroidism, and stomach issues, as do I. She manages with medicines, but if she's complaining to anyone about anything, it's me, not in a "You're here for me" way but in a "You're making my life a living h*ll by spending all this money" way. I love my mother and she's awesome, but a 14 year old shouldn't have fibromayalgia due from stress, because her mother yells so much about money.
To help my stress I turn to the forum, I get sucked in and forget about my life. Or I turn to my best friend to talk to. I love exercising and love running, but I have exercise induced asthma and I cannot run for more than a few seconds, not even with using my inhaler. And other exercises like walking, is hard for me to due, I have constant pain throughout my entire body all the time. It causes me depression/anger. Hence the muscle therapy and chiropractor every week, I'm trying to stop my pain, unfortunately it will most likely be for life. General life stresses me out, my mother doesn't take me or my emotions seriously, so there is nothing I can really do about it, she believes kids cannot have any stress because they're kids. So, I have my ferrets, that make me very happy, until the stress gets to me and I go overboard, every once in a while.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 22:42:50 GMT -5
I will confess that I have absolutely no idea how much they ate tonight, so my log will be empty concerning PM foods. They ate some soup and some pork slivers, I think maybe like 1-2 ounces or something. I knew, but I have completely forgotten. Oops... (shy) I offered slivers 2-3 times the size I should have, not knowingly, I didn't realize how big they were until I got them up to the ferrets and ended up sitting there pulling them apart making them smaller, they didn't eat a lot, I kinda jacked up that meal with laziness. But, Marcie ate 1 ounce of slivers today, soup free!!!! I posted above about the snack time slivers, she ended up eating all of them off all the plates. She went up to the plate every 10-30 mins or so and got a few, and after a few hours of them sitting on the plate she went up and cleared like .6 ounces in just a few minutes, I can not describe how happy and proud I was of her. I gave her so many kisses (Okay, okay, I let her lick the ferretone bottle a little... SHHH) and I was telling her how awesome she was. Of course then Caillou freaked out and ran over to the plate and started licking it, and then came over and made me give HIM cuddles and put Marcie down, he laid right on top of me for about 2 hours. I've had such a rough week, and my ferrets have made it so much better, Caillou has never cuddled me so much in one day, he knew how upset I was, and he knew just what to do. It's like he would come and "check" on me every 5 minutes during play time, he would crawl onto my bed and just get on me and lay down for a few minutes and then get up and go play, and he did it every couple of minutes for hours, and then he would come up and give cuddles for like 1-2 hours. I cried a little, out of happiness, not gonna lie. I can't imagine my life without my ferrets, especially Caillou, he's my sweet little cuddle bug baby. Sometimes I just need those cuddles to remind myself how lucky I am to be a ferrent (Sorry Katt, this post is gonna be long, LOL) And some current news, about 2 hours after dinner Juliet is finally starting over the past few days to get up and eat leftovers on her own!! Yay!! She's insulinomic and needs to be doing this, sometimes I can't do mid day snacks if I'm not home, and knowing she will eat every couple of hours is a huge relief. They are all starting to eat the leftovers, Marcie usually doesn't finish her soup in one sitting, but she always goes back for it. That's why she got her afternoon snack today, she finished about .3-.5 ounces of soup she left for breakfast and also finished off Caillou's AND Juliet's leftovers and wanted more, couldn't deny them food, and I'm so glad I decided to give slivers a shot. Super duper proud! Unfortunately, Caillou doesn't seem to remember that pieces of meat are food, and only ate 1-2 tiny slivers, but spit most of them out or ate around them. We will get there, slowly, but we will. My mother is also happy that Marcie is moving up, as I have informed her once they are on frankenpreey it will be cheaper. She acts like she knows what I'm talking about, but I can guarantee she only understands about %5 of what I tell her about the ferrets, I talk percentages and ounces and was trying to explain the frankenprey menu which she thought was crazily too much info, and all I said was, weekly, 7-9 bone-in meals, 3-4 muscle meat meals (1.5 - 2 must be hearts) and I forget about the organs, is it 2 organ meals and one has to be liver? I have a good memory about certain things, trying to remember this. I've read it a hundred times and still forget, I probably got all of that wrong... lol. And I explained about the times (soup is 6-8 hours, etc etc) and then how many ounces they average, how much medicine they got, by the time I am done telling her or anyone else about everything I do on a daily basis, they think I'm insane, and am some sort of super-teen. No, if I was a super-teen I wouldn't be feeling the stress in my muscles, chiropractor was completely and utterly amazed at how much pain I felt, he barely put any pressure on certain areas and I almost fell off the table in pain, he informed me about 8 times that I felt way too much pain for my age. And I've been told by my muscle therapist about 100 times that I feel WAY too much pain for my age. I'm practically un-fixable, but oh well. Pain level on a daily basis ranges, from 4-8 usually, throughout my entire body, isn't one spot that doesn't hurt, I didn't think that was normal but now I've been informed it most certainly is not. The good news is, I'm getting acupuncture for the first time, next week. And I have to keep a diary of the food I eat, so I can change it, and find my triggers, which I know already is caffeine and sugar. Caffeine makes me hallucinate, when I drink too much of it I feel like there are bugs crawling on my skin and I spend hours scratching myself. When I eat/drink sugar, I feel terrible. Fibromayalgia is a.. well it just sucks. LOL. The muscle therapist I go to worked on a monkey and got 2 knots out of it's back, I am going to ask him (legit) if I can bring the ferrets in, for a treatment. Dead serious. If he can do a monkey why not try the ferrets? What do you guys think katt and @poncesmom ? He sure helps me, I've been 4-5 times for hourly treatments, I get spasms in my back a lot, every time I've went I've had one or two, and I have knots everywhere. If he can fix me he can give the ferrets a shot I believe, I mean it's already proven I'm crazy, why not go full out and get a muscle therapy treatment for them? (giggle) Bad news is it's $60 for an hour, but we come back a lot so he usually only charges for 1 person when he does two, he probably wouldn't charge a lot for the ferts. I don't even know if he will, but he's a nice person and would probably try.. am I totally insane for asking? I won't be going back for several weeks, he'll be out of town. I don't mind being called crazy about my ferrets, I've devoted my life to them and it's my choice and I don't regret a thing. I mean for goodness sake I'll be taking care of sick ferrets for the rest of my life, I believe all these illness is the man upstairs preparing me for my future. I don't want to just treat animals, I want to develop news medicines or even cures for things. Katt, you're in med school, can I get your opinion on something? Do you think there is any possible way that we could develop an implant for insulinoma, like the implant we have for adrenal? Instead of an implant to balance hormones, it would balance BG levels? Just a thought I've had for a while. I want to make the world of pet ownership a better place, and ferrets are getting more and more popular. There will always be people to treat your dogs allergies and ringworms, but that's not me, my Vet who I shadow is the kind of Vet I want to be the opposite of. I crave excitement, instability, I love new challenges, I don't want to spend my life prescribing flea medicine and carafate. I want to be the House, MD of animals... hahaha Omg this post has turned out to be SO long, sorry guys! I like to chat and rant and get out all of my thoughts, helps me sleep. I don't write things down, because of my mild sensory defensiveness, I can't stand to touch paper. But I love to type. Their log for the day (excluding PM food) What they ate each meal: Am they got pork soup, pudding consistency Pm they got pork soup and pork slivers Roughly how much they ate each meal: AM: Caillou ate 2 ounces Juliet ate 2 ounces Marcie ate 2 ounces (she went back and finished it after about 2 hours, so did Caillou) Any additional supplements: Caillou got .13 ml of Baytril 100 Juliet got .1.5 ml of pediapred What their poops are like: Caillou: small, dark brown, a little loose Juliet: small, light brown, a little loose Marcie, small, dark brown, good consistency What their energy is like: Caillou: a little lazy today, gave me lots of cuddles Juliet: wasn’t out at all today, didn’t want to be Marcie: crazy as usual
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 11:01:10 GMT -5
Good Morning I talk percentages and ounces and was trying to explain the frankenprey menu which she thought was crazily too much info, and all I said was, weekly, 7-9 bone-in meals, 3-4 muscle meat meals (1.5 - 2 must be hearts) and I forget about the organs, is it 2 organ meals and one has to be liver?
Two meals are Organ meals: 1. Liver plus another Organ 2. Liver plus another organ plus a half meal of hearts Organs should be ten percent of the amount that they eat weekly Heart should be ten percent of the amount that they eat weekly Your Mom may be a visual learner. Since you don't like to write on paper, why don't you ask her to write down the basic frankenprey menu on a sheet of paper for you, and then post it on the fridge. You will both be able to see it and she will get more familiar with the idea, and see how simple it is. The good news is, I'm getting acupuncture for the first time, next week.
I've had acupuncture and my acupuncturist also mixed herbs for me to take daily. I had a pretty rough menopause and looked to Eastern medicine to help. It was helpful for me. The best thing that I ever did was Yoga. I took classes with a traditional yoga studio that offered different forms of Yoga. I Loved it and have never felt better. I went for quite a few years and only stopped because we moved. They teach you stress techniques. It helps remove toxins from your body and has so many benefits. Katt mentioned meditation and exercise as a way to help you and if you could find a yoga class or studio, I think you would love it. The muscle therapist I go to worked on a monkey and got 2 knots out of it's back, I am going to ask him (legit) if I can bring the ferrets in, for a treatment.
I would talk to the Muscle treatment guy (is he a chiropractor?) first. I'm not sure what benefits, besides a nice massage, that he can bring to the little ones. Their spines are so delicate, I would be hesitant. Have you ever felt any knots in their tendons? When you get a chance, try posting a menu for the week. Start with the coming Monday and then we can follow along and tweak it, (if it needs it). It's good practice and will make meal preps easier. Plus, your mom can look at it and see what shopping is like. Like Katt said, if you stay with basic and inexpensive cuts, that will help her pocketbook. :wave2:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 11:13:10 GMT -5
I tried yoga, by myself, kinda liked it, until I got like 5 cramps in my legs and feet. I probably didn't do it right but I've proven I'll do anything to help my pain. Will give it a shot. There is a test my mothers chiropractor can do, he hooks machines up to your hands and feet and it tells you what vitamins and stuff you're body is lacking in, and you go and buy those and start taking them, my mom had it done, she said I could get it done too. God knows what all I need, probably will just say "ERROR"... LOL All I know is he is a muscle therapist, he was a nurse for 20 years and then became a muscle therapist, he's been doing that for maybe 10 years now? He doesn't mess with bones or joints, he CAN, but he doesn't. I doubt he would be touching their spine, worth a shot to ask about it, it'd be cool if they started acting better after a treatment, I sure do (giggle)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 11:17:11 GMT -5
Oh, and in complete honesty I'm not sure how well my making of a menu will go, I doubt I will get anything right so when I post it, don't be too disappointed, it's not your fault, LOL!
How do I make one, can I put meats on their that I don't have, is it just for practice?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 12:25:05 GMT -5
Just build you menu based on what you have planned for them to eat, starting on Monday or Saturday, if you like. You mentioned Saturday in another post.
Only Marcie has eaten some bone, right? So build your menu to look sort of like this:
Saturday:
Caillou Marcie Juliet
Sunday: Caillou Marcie Juliet
Etc... Use what you have in the freezer, and don't worry about two different meals per day, just give us an idea of what you plan on feeding each of them for the day. Make sense?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 12:26:41 GMT -5
I forgot to mention, turkey is expensive here also. Happily, it should be going on sale for Thanksgiving, soon. I plan on stocking up and buying in bulk. You might consider that also.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 12:30:35 GMT -5
Do you want me to use the menu and feed them the food? They only eat pork now. Marcie doesn't like bone, she can't chew it, doesn't know how and spits them out. So I'm doing slivers of pork meat. Do you want me to make a menu for the entire week? Like Monday: BI etc etc Tuesday: Organ etc etc and so on?? Do you care to post the picture of your menu on your dry erase board, where Juliet is "approving" I've seen it before, it helped I'm supposed to do 7-9 Bone-In meals, is it okay if they are all of the same BI meat, CGH? I have lamb, turkey, chicken thigh, CGH, Pork chops, beef and chicken liver, chicken hearts, and chicken gizzards is all that I have in my freezer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 12:33:38 GMT -5
Unfortunately, my mother did exactly what she does all the time, she doesn't "feel" like driving 20 mins to the Asian Market today. Says she will tomorrow, and she has to, I told her their food is imbalanced and they HAVE to have the organs. She is apparently going up there tomorrow for some reason. I really don't care, as long as I get up there to get the organs. I don't want to have to ask someone else to take me, but their food can't be imbalanced because she doesn't like to drive me places. UGH, I just really was counting on today.
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Post by katt on Oct 30, 2014 21:00:25 GMT -5
Sit my mother down and talk about money? I would MUCH rather jump into a pit of hungry sharks, it would be less painful (mentally). She can go on a rant about how expensive I am and how poor we are for hours. Talking about it makes her furious.I'll call the butchers sometime soon about fats and skins and such. I have several pounds of chicken thigh on hand frozen right now. And chicken heart and liver. Ask about trimmings. That usually consists of the parts of the meat they don't want to sell, but are typically still perfectly fine for animals. In fact, some butchers will save the butchering scraps just for pets. My typical day widely depends on what my mom is doing that day. I'm home schooled (I'm 14, if you didn't know) my school work doesn't take very long, a few hours. I get up at around 9am and feed them around 10am, do the litter boxes, let Marcie out and if Caillou is awake let him out, if Marcie is asleep I let Caillou and Juliet out together. I have to supervise their entire play time because they will both chew on everything if I don't, Marcie is really bad about cords. If we babysit my niece that day, which we do almost every day, I go to pick her up at 12:15, and get back about 12:45, if we don't need to run errands, if we do run errands, I won't be home for several (3-4+) hours. If not, come home and start school work. Then around 4-5pm I clean the mess the ferrets made, litter box check, snack if their hungry, and let Juliet out to play while Marcie is up. I go to the chiropractor and to a muscle therapist every week alternating, those take about 2-3 hours. Like I said it widely depends on what I need to do that day, I don't have a set schedule, it's a lot of times different. Some days I don't go anywhere and am here all day, those are the day I clean and such. Okay, so maybe what would be helpful is to set an alarm for yourself. On your phone if you have one, or a bedroom alarm. I would really recommend getting yourself a calendar too. It doesn't need to be anything fancy, you could even print one from the internet. An inconsistent schedule can really contribute to stress. It also makes it easy to skip/forget/overlook things. Try writing down ahead of time what you need to do each day - or even make a daily checklist. At first getting organized can be sort of a pain, but if you are really organized and structured it can go a LONG ways towards reducing stress. My stress comes from my mother, in complete and utter honesty. She stresses me out so much over life, she tells me of everything that is going on with us financially, and lectures me almost every single day on money, all I hear is how we don't have any money, how I spend so much money, how the ferrets cost so much, how the dogs cost so much, etc etc. If it's not money, she's complaning to me about how much pain she's in or how bad she feels that day. My mother has fibromayalgia (I do too) and depression caused by it, also low iron, hypothyroidism, and stomach issues, as do I. She manages with medicines, but if she's complaining to anyone about anything, it's me, not in a "You're here for me" way but in a "You're making my life a living h*ll by spending all this money" way. I love my mother and she's awesome, but a 14 year old shouldn't have fibromayalgia due from stress, because her mother yells so much about money. I'm sorry. You are correct, you should not have to deal with all of that at your age. As with anything in life though, the best you can do is to do your best with what you are given. It can be really, really hard to talk to your parents (trust me I know - my mom is VERY hard to talk to sometimes LOL), but communication is a really good thing. Perhaps it would be good to sit down and talk with her about what has been stressing you out. Use a lot of "I-" statements so you are not blaming her. "I feel like....when....happens." It might also be beneficial to look into some counseling - for yourself, and you may consider inviting your mom to join you in a few sessions after you get more comfortable with the therapist. It sounds like you have decent health insurance (??) if it is covering chiro work, it *should* cover counseling. It would be worth looking into. At first it can be really hard to start talking to a counselor/therapist, but once you start getting comfortable with the counselor it can really do a lot of good for your anxiety and stress level. If nothing else it will give you a safe place to vent your frustrations! To help my stress I turn to the forum, I get sucked in and forget about my life. Or I turn to my best friend to talk to. I love exercising and love running, but I have exercise induced asthma and I cannot run for more than a few seconds, not even with using my inhaler. And other exercises like walking, is hard for me to due, I have constant pain throughout my entire body all the time. It causes me depression/anger. Hence the muscle therapy and chiropractor every week, I'm trying to stop my pain, unfortunately it will most likely be for life. General life stresses me out, my mother doesn't take me or my emotions seriously, so there is nothing I can really do about it, she believes kids cannot have any stress because they're kids. So, I have my ferrets, that make me very happy, until the stress gets to me and I go overboard, every once in a while.Ahhh sounds like being a teenager! For the pain and the exercise - try starting with really short walks and working your way up. Often gentle exercise can go a long way towards relieving pain, but it does take time. In fact physical therapy, yoga, and TaiChi, and Qigong have all been shown to be helpful in pain reduction in fibromyalgia. Even if you can't do a class, there are plenty of guided meditation and yoga classes on youtube (I bet you could find the others too) so maybe working even 20 minutes of one of those would help. Meditation is also beneficial to fibromyalgia patients and for anxiety and stress. I'm glad that you have a good friend that you can talk to, that is really important. If you find something is overwhelming you stress-wise step back for 3 minutes. Take some deep breaths, calm down, and then try to return to whatever it was in a more slow-paced and calm-minded state. It is hard, I'm not going to lie - it takes a lot of practice. But ever time you do it you will get a little better a little better. And it really can go a long way towards reducing your overall stress level.
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Post by katt on Oct 30, 2014 21:26:24 GMT -5
Katt, you're in med school, can I get your opinion on something? Do you think there is any possible way that we could develop an implant for insulinoma, like the implant we have for adrenal? Instead of an implant to balance hormones, it would balance BG levels? Just a thought I've had for a while. I want to make the world of pet ownership a better place, and ferrets are getting more and more popular. There will always be people to treat your dogs allergies and ringworms, but that's not me, my Vet who I shadow is the kind of Vet I want to be the opposite of. I crave excitement, instability, I love new challenges, I don't want to spend my life prescribing flea medicine and carafate. I want to be the House, MD of animals... hahahaIs it possible? Maybe. However, BG control is very complex and something we don't even have a full understanding of in humans and there's constantly tons of research happening around BG control for diabetics. A big part of the issue is your BG relies on SO many factors, not a (relatively) simple feedback loop like adrenal disease. In the future it may well be a possibility - I never rule anything out as we are constantly making advances. However, it is highly unlikely we will see anything like that soon. [I tried yoga, by myself, kinda liked it, until I got like 5 cramps in my legs and feet. I probably didn't do it right but I've proven I'll do anything to help my pain. Will give it a shot. There is a test my mothers chiropractor can do, he hooks machines up to your hands and feet and it tells you what vitamins and stuff you're body is lacking in, and you go and buy those and start taking them, my mom had it done, she said I could get it done too. God knows what all I need, probably will just say "ERROR"... LOLSee above - studies have shown yoga to be beneficial for fibromyalgia patients, in particular a type of Yoga called "Yoga of Awareness." Practice makes perfect! Also, I would be hesitant to take the ferret to the guy you mentioned. For one, they shouldn't need it and for two ferrets are very delicate and sensitive animals - I would not trust anyone who was not very experienced in ferrets specifically to do manipulations on them. Oh, and in complete honesty I'm not sure how well my making of a menu will go, I doubt I will get anything right so when I post it, don't be too disappointed, it's not your fault, LOL! STOP being so hard on yourself! This is all about learning. No one's first menu is perfect, and many people's second, third, fourth menus aren't perfect either. That is the whole point of having you make them is to help you practice and learn how to do the balance and adjustments yourself. You will make a menu, we will suggest changes, you will make another...etc. By the end you will be a menu making expert! The menu should follow this format: Monday: am: pm: Tuesday: am: pm: etc for the entire week. Each meal should say what protein, and what type of meat (e.g. chicken liver, boneless beef chunks, pork heart, quail wings bone-in). Just like the daily log you have been keeping, only you will be planning the week in advance. For now, focus on the meats that you have on hand. NOW onto some very important things. I have a few concerns to address. 1.) FEEDING AMOUNT AND TIMINGIt is VERY important that all 3 ferrets are getting AS MUCH food as they can and will eat. If they empty their bowls, they are not getting enough food. There should always be 1-2 bites leftover by the next meal. It is also CRUCIAL that they have food available 24/7. This is super, super important for Juliet who MUST eat every few hours or she is at risk of going into an insulinomic crash - even controlled and on meds. I cannot stress this enough. Make sure that you are always leaving food out. Check their dish 2-3 times a day and if it is empty or really low, top it off. This is really, really, really important. From what you have described I really don't think Caillou is eating enough if he is trying to steal Juliet's food. Males typically need a lot more to eat than females. This could be why he is still chewing too. It could also explain his weight loss and his lack of energy. When people frequently refer to "2oz a day" that is an average and does not apply to all ferrets. I know that this is confusing and we have actually taken some steps to start stopping people from using the "2oz rule" anymore for this exact reason. Think of it this way...I'm 5'1" and ~100lb and my dad is 6' ish and probably 200lb...imagine if I fed him the amount of food that I eat... Same thing goes for ferrets. Most raw fed ferrets will NOT overeat - if they want more, give them more. With very, very few exceptions they are very good at self regulating. This is super, SUPER important. So please make sure in your next comment to note that you read this. Feed them as much as they will eat and make sure food is always available.2.) Caillou's Next ProteinIt sounds like you have a lot of chicken on hand, and we know he will eat that so let's do that next. His next meal make the pork soup as you have been doing, and add in just a few slivers of chicken meat. You can keep a chicken thigh in the fridge in a ziplock bag and it will stay good for a few days. Over the next few days you can cut bits off of that vs thawing new meat every day. Start with maybe a quarter sized amount (so maybe 1/2tsp-1tsp) of tiny chicken slivers mixed into his pork soup. Do this for 2 meals tomorrow, and let me know how he does and we will take it from there. This is your first trial protein! 3.) Food CostsI can't quite figure out how you are spending so much on their food. I spend about $150 for 4-6 months worth of food for 2 big males, and that is with buying expensive meats like rabbit, duck, and goat. Perhaps we can help you budget a bit if you give us an idea of what types of food you are buying and how much it costs. Maybe write it down in a "checkbook" or take pictures of the meat labels. Something easy to do - I don't want to add another stressor onto your plate.
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