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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 11:53:29 GMT -5
Hey! Sorry I've been a little absent. This is what I haven't posted yet.
10/18 Piper ate 2oz of soup with tons (a dozen-ish) of gizzard slivers. She was a little hyper and misbehaving- pooping everywhere but her boxes*, nipping the tops of people's feet.
10/19 She ate almost nothing. We threw out 95% of both bowls of soup. We were both out of the apartment for most of that day, so we had little to say about her energy level.
10/20 Again a lighter eating day, where she ate most of her 2oz serving- about 1.8oz. Her energy and mischief levels were more normal. Poops are still a little runny, but because she's been pooping everywhere, I don't always find them until they're black and hard as rock. I'm making a serious effort to find her poops while they're more fresh.
10/21 A good, solid, Piper-style eating day. She ate about 4oz- this time with a twist! We bought more chicken hearts- having found a closer, nicer Korean supermarket- but while I was buying chicken thigh, I also bought some turkey thigh. This batch of soupies was made with turkey thigh, and she seems very fond of the flavor. Even the slivers are turkey thigh, and I've yet to find one left uneaten.
I think she was eating less for a few days because 1, she was probably pretty sick of chicken after a month of it, and 2, she was probably a little overwhelmed by how many slivers we piled onto her plate. I need to get a picture of fresher poo, to check with you if it's normal (ish). Also, I feel a little guilty. Midterms have come to Rutgers, and as a result, we've been spending less time than usual just playing. I think baby girl feels a little lonely.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 22, 2014 14:58:04 GMT -5
Sounds like Piper is doing great! I had to laugh at you describing her as "a little hyper and misbehaving".. that sounds like a typical ferret to me! I wouldn't worry about the days she doesn't eat much, UNLESS it happens frequently. My kids have days when they eat hardly anything too, but then they usually make up for the following day. So she's eating her slivers well, turkey also. That's good. :thumbsup: She's getting more slivers now, so it is throwing the soup balance off a little and that's why her poops are runnier. Sprinkle a tiny bit of extra eggshell on her meals and that should take care of it until we get her on bone. What size are her slivers now? Let's try pushing her a little... since she seems to love turkey, cut a couple of chunks about 1/4 inch wide by about an inch long and see what she does with them. If she doesn't eat them, cut them in half lengthwise. If she eats them, we'll start pushing her a little faster. Good luck with midterms! Don't feel too guilty about not having as much time for her right now. Being ignored once in a while is NOT the end of the world, although I'm sure Piper feels like it is.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 16:11:14 GMT -5
She spoils us as much as we spoil her- she's phenomenally smart, and I can't help but feel like her previous owner trained her quite a bit. Sometimes I forget that her "bad" days are her just being a ferret! I was actually wondering if you know of a reference page on here full of meats that are good for ferrets. When I go to the Korean supermarket, I feel like a kid in a toy store. I want to buy her all kinds of organ and muscle meats! They've got everything from beef (which I've heard ferrets take a little adjusting to) to lamb, to cornish game hen, silkie chickens, and so on and so forth. They've also got every animal part imaginable. I'm not worried about bones yet, but it wouldn't hurt to have a reference for bones for later. Her slivers are typically about as thick as the chef's knife I cut them with. I then take those slivers, turn them horizontally, and cut them once or twice more. I am really looking forward to getting out of the slivers phase- what a pain! As per usual, I'll update Travis so we're both on the same page. Just to be sure, we're still giving her soupies as the majority of her meal? We're just kind of testing the chunky waters? Thank you so much! I'll need it She'll probably get a new toy at the end of all this to help abate my guilt.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 22, 2014 17:25:24 GMT -5
Reference page of meats.. hmmm.... I can't think of one, but basically if it comes from an animal, it's good for them to eat. You can go crazy and buy her anything you want, just remember that the majority of her diet will be edible bone-in meats. And you might not be worried about bone yet, but if she eats those larger chunks you're getting ready to give her, she'll be ready for bone in about a week. We are just 'testing the chunky waters', but we're also working towards getting rid of soups. Keep decreasing the amount of soup she gets and increasing the amount of slivers/chunks. Ideally, I'd like her to be through with soups in about a week or so. Gotta run an errand... back in about an hour with more info & instructions.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 23, 2014 15:42:10 GMT -5
Well, I think it's been more than an hour, lol. Sorry about that.. my internet went down for several hours last night.
I've been thinking about your question about what meats to buy. In general, you want to get fattier, darker cuts of meat. Dark cuts have more taurine, and fats are where ferrets get their energy. They really need to have a red meat included in their diet. Beef actually is one of my fuzzies' favorite foods. I give them the cheap fatty cuts that people don't want to eat.
You're extremely lucky to have access to so much variety. Most of us have to look long and hard to find everything we need, and many end up ordering online. Since you have a terrific source of exotic meats, I would suggest that you spend some time there and make a list of what you WANT Piper to eat eventually. I tend to buy in bulk when things go on sale, but I'm fortunate to have an expansive walk-in freezer at my disposal AND I know what my kids will and will not eat. We don't know yet what Piper's food preferences will be, so I wouldn't actually buy a bunch of stuff for her just yet, but do make a list of what's available and what you want to serve. She'll need at least 3 proteins in the muscle meat/edible bone categories, plus some organs. The organ variety does NOT count toward the requisite 3 proteins. And of course, the more variety you offer, the better off she'll be. Once you decide what you want her to have in her diet, we can go ahead and put together a 'target menu' to be working toward.
You'll need to have lots of bone-in meats.. those will be mostly poultry and small animal, non-weight bearing bones. They have to be small enough that Piper can fit them in her mouth comfortably and crunch them fairly easily. Ferrets have the jaw strength to be able to crush... well, anything that fits in their mouths really, but they're lazy (seems like an oxymoron, doesn't it, lol) and will try to get by without eating their bones if they're too difficult to crunch. Then you'll need organs... liver is required (from any animal), and then at least one other organ - kidney, lung, brain, pancreas, thymus, reproductive organs. For the purpose of this diet, an organ is defined as a SECRETING organ, so if it secretes something, you can feed it as an organ. Hearts can also be from any animal. The heart is required because of its taurine content. Ferrets' bodies don't produce taurine, so they must get it from their food. You can use beef tongue as an acceptable replacement for heart since we have documented levels of taurine for that. Theoretically, you could use the tongue of any ruminant since their tongues are ALWAYS working, thus creating high taurine levels, but we don't have the numbers for any other tongue besides beef. And then the last thing you'll need to find is muscle meat. This one is easy; anything will work, but like I said earlier, always go for the darker, fattier cuts.
Once you know WHAT you want to feed, and once we get her eating chunks and bones, we'll start working in new proteins to find out what she likes and doesn't like. We can trick her into eating anything, even if she doesn't particularly like it, if it's something that she HAS to have (like organs), but it makes life SO much easier if you can mostly give her food she likes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 21:55:30 GMT -5
Hey Gina, I'll be soon to update on Piper's food & activity, but in the mean time, I need to ask you about her poo. She left us this little present in the kitchen * Travis was actually the one to find it. Is this a healthy poop, should I be giving her more eggshell sprinkles?
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Post by gfountain on Oct 25, 2014 12:05:34 GMT -5
It's a little loose, not terrible and not unusual. The poop looks worse than it actually is because of the urine mixed with it. You should be increasing the amount of sliver/chunks and decreasing the amount of soup she's eating, so that WILL throw off the eggshell balance some. If she consistently does these loose poops, then add a tiny bit more eggshell.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 27, 2014 11:35:33 GMT -5
How's she doing?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 14:04:04 GMT -5
Hey, I'm here. I don't want you to think I'm not taking all this very seriously, so I was wondering if I could schedule when I can post my updates. For example, I have no class Tuesday and Friday, and I typically only work one weekend day. This way when I'm not around for a couple days, I don't make you worry.
Anyway, thank you for your patience. She's been eating between 2 and 3oz everyday. Unfortunately, we had to throw out most of her slivers. I needed to rely on Travis to feed her for a day or two, and what I didn't realize was that he was cutting the majority of her slivers way too big. So we've corrected that, and I thought you'd be happy to witness her chowing down:
This is her eating her breakfast this morning. There was ~1oz soup and slightly less than 1oz soup, with say .2oz chunks. Poops are less loose than before.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 28, 2014 15:16:25 GMT -5
Awww.. she's doing a good job with those slivers. But she sure didn't want that big chunk! Since she's doing so well with the little ones, go ahead and start making them a little bit larger and try serving them with just a TINY bit of soup. If she doesn't eat them immediately, just leave them in the cage for her. She's young enough that a few hours without food won't hurt her if she doesn't eat it in her cage. Obviously though, if she doesn't eat it within 10 hours or so, toss it and go back to slivers with soup for a little while longer.
You also might want to try serving her meals on a flat dish. See how she's taking the chunks out of the bowl.. it's not comfortable for her to reach in over the side of the dish AND they like to be able to see around them while they're eating (to make sure no one's coming to steal their food, I presume). Mine also don't like their whiskers to touch the sides of a bowl, lol.
I know you're busy, so just post when you can and I'll try not to worry. If I know that you're going to post on Tuesdays and Fridays, I'll just check in a few times in between to make sure you're not having problems. I'm also on FB if you want to contact me there.. either Gina Fountain or Slink E. Magoo. I'd give you my cell number but my cell service is almost nonexistent when I'm at home so you most likely wouldn't be able to get me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 15:45:42 GMT -5
My big strong girl! Yesterday she ate about 3.7oz. As you can see in the video from 10/28, she typically finds these big chunks that I can't figure out how we missed, and they get left next to the bowl. If we notice in time, we cut them again in case she's still hungry. Her portions have been like this: But tonight we'll switch to: I'll try to find some sturdy pet plates. My problem is that, like so many fuzzies, she feels the constant need to redecorate, and winds up strewing the meat around more than she eats it * I'll try to find something heavy. I think I saw something she could use at PetCo. Also, I've starting adding about 1/8t eggshell powder to her current diet (which looks like the first chart. I will update you on her poo soon. (oh joy!) As usual, thank you so much for your understanding. I never want you to feel like I'm putting your guidance or Piper's diet in the backseat, because I really appreciate all the help.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 29, 2014 15:56:21 GMT -5
It's nice that you're so excited about the poop report! If she's making a mess of her food you might try a feeding den. I know I just told you to use a flat dish because they like to see what's happening around them, BUT they also like to have their food in a safe place... silly fuzzies. One of mine likes a den, one doesn't, so rather than have an established feeding den, I keep a tissue box or soft drink box in the cage so she can carry her food to it. And when the box gets nasty, I just throw it away. I can't see your images on this computer (stupid censored school network), so I'll check back in here when I get home.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 20:19:45 GMT -5
That's an interesting idea. What do you think of this: When we had Sly, we traveled a lot, so we had gotten him this enclosed litter box as a safe place to sleep away-from-cage. What if I took the bottom out and left the top portion in her room, where she'd have access to it? Clean up would be simple: lift the enclosure and wipe down the hard floor. Also, I got a kick out of making her dinner today, because I'm so excited about her progress. This is her dinner tonight (sadly the last bit of turkey!). I'll Making more soup tomorrow, which I'll be able to freeze in .5oz portions, enabling us to increase the solid portion of her meals. Now, I don't mean to get ahead of myself, but as we decrease the soup, we'll be decreasing her access to organs and heart for a little while, right? Should I be feeding her a portion of her meal as heart/organ a certain number of times a week at this point?
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Post by gfountain on Oct 30, 2014 19:11:19 GMT -5
Wow, that's not soup, that's pudding and that's great! Is she eating all of that, slivers, chunks, and all? If so, keep increasing the size of those chunks. And pick up some chicken wings to have on hand. She'll be ready pretty soon! As far as the heart/organ, go ahead and locate some so you'll have it when she's ready, but let's hold off on feeding them until she's eating her chunks without soup. Sometimes the stronger taste of organs will throw them off for a while and I want her loving her whole meats before we shake things up. Deficiencies in the diet don't happen for several months at least and we'll have her on full frankenprey long before that happens. One thing you do want to watch while you're increasing her 'solid' food is her output. Without the soup, and before she gets onto bone, there is the possibility that she'll start having some runny poop. If you see that happening, sprinkle a little eggshell on her meat when you serve it.. just a little. It doesn't take much. The ratio is 1/2 tsp eggshell to 8 oz meat, so if you're only serving 1 oz of meat, you can see it only takes a sprinkle of it. I keep eggshell powder in a salt shaker so it's handy for sprinkling and I can control the amount easily. That 'feeding den' looks perfect. As I said, she may or may not like it, but it's worth a try to see if she'll eat a little neater, lol. Another thing that will help once she gets to larger pieces is to get some of the old-fashioned metal shower curtain hooks and hook the meat to the side or top of the den. You and Piper are doing GREAT! I'm proud of my students.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 30, 2014 19:14:35 GMT -5
And it's been a couple of weeks since we started, so check her weight again.
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