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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 5:58:50 GMT -5
Hi all! For some reason I can't post directly in the Insulinoma subthread, but this is somewhat a general question too. My ferret had been on kibble her entire life and I have been adding in raw meat chicken meals recently to help her with the protein intake and whatnot. When I fed her kibble, I think it spiked her sugar much more quickly as she would be more active after eating some and then running about. With the raw chicken, she eats some (I took her kibble away 2 hours before) and is all wobbly like if her sugar's low. I'm calling her vet today to ask if we should try and slightly increase her dose of Diazoxide from 0.5 to 0.6 and see if it will help, but I'm thinking that the meat is just slowly raising her sugar so she's usually still feeling light-headed at that point. Any thoughts on it?  |
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Post by Thérèse on Sept 10, 2014 7:56:16 GMT -5
With insulinoma one thing that is important is small meals often. Although to avoid bacterial issues, kibble should not be fed close to raw, the length of time between you taking away the kibble and feeding the raw may be causing issues. When you take the kibble out, do you know if she has just eaten? If she hasn't eaten in a while and then is without food for another 2 hours that could cause her BG to drop.
The raw should help her BG to stabilise. Part of the reason small meals often are good for insulinomic ferrets is because the body doesn't have to work so hard to process a smaller meal. Raw also should not require as much effort on the ferret's system to get the nutrients it seeks. When the body has to work hard to get it's nutrients in an insulinomic ferret the peaks and dips in it's BG become too much for the ferret and it then crashes or if it is really extreme seizes.
One of the main problems with raw and kibble and the possibility of bacterial overloads is because they digest at different rates and so the kibble (which digests slower) sits in the belly and begins to build bacteria. This problem is somewhat mitigated when both foods are moist, as being dry extends the period it takes for the kibble to be digested. could you feed the kibble moist? Then you would not have to remove it for as long before the raw, this could help keep your wee ones BG from peaking and dipping as dramatically.
Just my thoughts, hope they help
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Post by racheld on Sept 10, 2014 7:56:46 GMT -5
Yes, the carbs in kibble cause a blood sugar spike, while raw meat will cause BG to rise more slowly. That's why raw is better for insulinomic (?) ferrets, their BG stays more stable instead of spiking up and down.
Did she improve after feeding raw and it just took longer?
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Post by Sherry on Sept 10, 2014 8:26:32 GMT -5
In that case only remove kibble one hour before offering raw. It does sound as though she is unstable. What are her levels?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 11:25:33 GMT -5
Thank you for the advice.  Yesterday, my mom hand-fed the kibble to Vanilla until she started hiding them instead of eating them. To remind her to eat, we alwaus dip kibble in water but we can't let them moisten too much since she doesn't eay them when they're soft. I want to try it again though. The last time she had a blood test at the vet was almost a month ago and while I don't remember the number, the vet had mentioned that it was good but just a bit lower than ideal. I'm going to consult with her on the phone today. Oh and to answer the question, I can't tell how much the raw helps her since she dozes off after. I'm trying to make a schedule where she can have some active playtime again. I also give her the Diazoxide at 7 am and 7pm, around the time she gets the raw meat (so it won't be on an empty stomach). In case I'm missing some crucial detail here. Edit: I'll be bringing Vanilla in for a blood test this Saturday to talk with the vet about the dosage. I'll try to remember the number this time around. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 17:34:41 GMT -5
Her blood sugar levels were 3.6 and the vet said that it was at the same level as last time. When I told them that she was still getting wobbly and whatnot again, they decided to raise her Diazoxide from 0.5 to 0.8 and see how she feels in 2 weeks.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2014 18:18:59 GMT -5
Have you tried Prednisolone? My Neichei was insulinomic for over a year, she was on kibble which probably made her unstable most of the time, but she got pediatric prednsione and eventually paired that with diazoxide. The diazoxide was a miracle drug. The Pred did enough to keep her from seizing, but the Diazoxide gave her back a happy life for a while.
Before she passed she was on 2.4 mg of Prednisone and I think 0.8 mg of diazoxide twice daily, along with carnivore care to help stabilize her and for weight gain. In her last days she went down hill quickly, but after a few weeks of diazoxide paired with pred she was a new ferret.
Neichei's BG was never above 40, and a month or so before she passed it was down to 17. Normal being about 80, it was very low. I do hope she starts feeling better, and I say switch fully onto raw (even if it's still soup, soupy is good for 6-8 hours) and feed her small meals several times a day. I'm sure their will be improvement :0
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Post by Sherry on Sept 15, 2014 9:40:07 GMT -5
Willow was also on both, but if you can stabilize her just on the diazoxide I would. Pred can be a miracle drug for a while but the side effects are horrendous  Willow DID finally stabilize somewhat(still very low) when her diazoxide was jumped from .8 a day to 1.6. She, however, had pancreatic lymphoma. Her meds and meals were split to 5 doses throughout the day. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 12:33:09 GMT -5
Yes, I agree that the side affects can be terrible, long term. Weight gain is a side affect I wish Neichei had, she was dropping weight fast and was on death's door right before the Diazoxide came in. That's why she was on Carnivore Care.
Neichei had nerve damage in her legs from the meds, her feet knuckled and stiffened so she couldn't walk well, but she was already on 2.4 mg of Pred and decreasing it by .2 almost killed her with the seizures she had. Pred can do a lot of damage, but for me the benefits outweighed the side affects, that's what me and my Vet decided. So it really is a personal decision you have to make.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 11:12:38 GMT -5
So far, she's been seeming fine just woth the diazoxide. I think that it's really just the fact that the meat was reacting just too slowly... I'm kind of regretting asking them to raise it now... They did so only from the symptoms I mentioned as the 3-hour fasting blood sugar levels were ok...
Edit: She's also had tears in her eyes as she ate the raw chicken, could that show allergies?
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Post by Sherry on Sept 18, 2014 9:11:20 GMT -5
No- allergies show very violently. As in projectile vomiting and diarrhea.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 15:02:23 GMT -5
No- allergies show very violently. As in projectile vomiting and diarrhea. Oh wow... That is bad. Glad she's not allergic then! |
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