|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 20:46:11 GMT -5
I'm a sucker for boys, and want to add an intact Hob to my little family in the next two to three years. Right now I'm focusing on researching how to care for an intact boy, and researching ferretrys. Does anyone have any pointers, or advice I could use? And threads that would help would be awesome too! (I read Mikeybox's thread on Finn already) Will breeders even sell intact kits? I have absolutely no intention if breeding and would Implant him after the first couple of seasons. I want to do this purely for the health benefits and my own curiosity about the difference between early neuter mill ferrets and intact breeder ferrets.
I am waiting a couple of years before I take on another ferret especially an intact one so I can become a more experience Ferrant and because I want to ensure I have the funds, and time for two.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Aug 30, 2014 21:13:57 GMT -5
LOL...they're interesting, these bad boys. If you can survive their first couple of seasons you've got it made. There's a reason why we say they're hobnoxious. My boys are 3 yrs now and I will be having one of my kits doing his first season next year (you can listen to me whine at that time (headwall), he's already chewed up his momma, the brat). The older boys are not near as bad as they were as juveniles. Now they only really stink when they first come in (or maybe I'm just used to them lol). They still become snotty, nippy, headstrong pains in the arses though. In their first year they will mate with anything that will stand still for them. The dog, the cat, the table, your pillows...just about anything, though Tico preferred a small square pillow from my bedding set (it got pitched after he was done with it for a season). The B & E twins (hob and v-hob) practice on each other. Getting used to being slimed is another hobbish bit of behaviour I could do without. This year I was amazed to find out my guys just became bumbling love bugs. Yes, they did go about sliming things but it was only when they first came into season or when one of the ladies came into season. Again the nippiness was also restricted to those times as well. So you can say there is light at the end of the tunnel as they get older. The boys often have to be separated from their friends during their season as well as they will mate with sprites and might hurt them and they will take exception to some gibs. My two brothers have lived together with only minor damage. Tico cannot be allowed to live with anyone except the strongest jill, he lives with his friend, Lady Morgain. He will kill another hob, he had to be removed when he and his brother went at it. How friends are tolerated is entirely dependent on the ferrets involved. As far as breeders, you'd have to discuss that with the breeder that you choose to use, as to what your timing is for alters. You will be sold an intact ferret because none alter their ferrets before they first start to come into season. Some are not real comfortable with the use of the DES as a chemical alter asking you to alter anyway and may actually specify in their contract with you that you cannot use it. Some require you to alter as soon as they come into season. As more and more information points to altering as a possible component to adrenal disease some are responding with allowing their kit people to alter later. These are things that you need to ask and clarify before you choose which breeder you use. ciao
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 21:23:52 GMT -5
Is Neuter safer than DES? That's something I've read up on? Do I have other options in that front or are those the only two? I'm actually excited to see the seasonal difference in behavoir. I grew up on a Throuoghbred breeding ranch, and watched stallions go from hot headed bucks to timid lil' ponies depending on what mare they encountered. I feel like my husband will have a hard time with it haha, but he himself is a "hobnoxious" thing The sliming? Do they do that in EVERYTHING or is it a limited space? I plan on having a desperate room for the new hob during his season if he can't be around my Puck, and I also am not going to be keeping any jills, so that may lessen my stress. I kind of wanted an intact poley hybrid but decided if I ever went that route I should have experience with a regular intact boy first Maybe one day I'll have a hybrid, but for now I want to get some more experience.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Aug 31, 2014 9:34:23 GMT -5
That's a good question. No one really knows. Using DES as a chemical castration in ferrets is so new that a ferret that uses it is basically another experiment. They've been using it a bit longer in Europe but still know little about the side effects and long term outcomes. It has been suggested never to use it in breeding ferrets. It used to actually say this on their site, I don't know if it still does. Some people have reported their ferrets come into season if allowed to go past the one year and not get it renewed. Others have reported (and I know of a couple) who've had it implanted and never had them come in season again 2 or 3 years later. I know of people who've used it and are very happy with it. Is there an alternative? not that I know of. You've got the choice of DES (as a chemical castration), altering, or altering with the secondary use of DES as an adrenal preventative. Those are the only methods I know of. Sliming....it basically marking and they slime everything that they can slither over. Tubes, bedding, your feet (favourite I'm sure of it...{sigh} ) Not keeping jills will not only lessen your stress but his too Poley hybrids are more an issue with the poley rather than the actual hob. I've had an albino hob before going to poleys. My Odin was the from what I can tell a very common attitude of albinos. They're very sweet. I've got 2 now and they're the most gorgeous wee brats and total loves, basically the same as Odin. Chosen by hunters for their ease of handling and being easily seen in underbrush my present two bino hobs are the epitome of albinos. They're absolutely the sweetest brats. ciao
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 16:48:18 GMT -5
Would keeping them intact their whole life be a better option? I'm worried about neutering because of the risk of adrenal, and would gladly deal with an intact boy for eleven years or so if it means a healthier boy. V-Hobbing is DES implants isn't it? I honestly would love a poley, but was told I should get a lot more experience before getting one. Honestly, I'm also worried about Jill's cause of how much their seasons entail... Jill jabs and falseys... I just couldn't handle the stress haha. Which is why I couldn't and wouldn't ever breed. I'm not equipped to handle that stress. I've been researching breeders.. Should I start my interviewing process now, and watch their litters for a few years? That's what I do with my hunting dog breeders... Also I know for a fact I will only trust raw feeding breeders... So this process will be arduous... I'm very excited though!!
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Aug 31, 2014 17:01:37 GMT -5
A v-hob is an intact ferret with all his bits and attitude but has been vasectomized so that he can service jills to bring them out of season without getting them pregnant. You don't use DES on them because they wouldn't be able to do their job I started asking questions and researching breeders long before I was ready to deal with an intact ferret. My first brush with a hob was Odin and a total failure. I had no idea what I was getting into, I was rescuing and he was an escapee from a BYB. I now know he was the sweetest wee boy possible. I was not in the position at the time to deal with him or how to manage his stink or his hobbish ways. DES implants didn't exist so he got altered. He was 5 yrs old when he was handed over to me and by 11 he had adrenal. It broke my heart. I swore that if I could find a way it would never, ever happen again, thus my hobs. I would start getting to know some of the breeders you're interested in. Most have facebook pages that you can hang out on and ask questions. This way you get to know them, their policies and beliefs. They also like you to do this because through casual conversation you can learn a lot.
ciao
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 17:11:56 GMT -5
Is V-Hobbing a good alternative to altering? They still would go into season though. V-Hobs are only really useful to breeders I guess? I'm sorry about your Odin... That's sad, but eleven is a lot longer than I can probably hope for with my Puck (a Marshall's boy). I will definitely have to start finding good breeders then. I'm having a hard time finding any in the US that fit all of my criteria... I'm thinking I may fly to the UK when I'm ready to get my boy. Healthy breeding stock, and very good breeding ethics from what I've seen. I know there are good breeders here in the IS, but many feed quality kibble instead of raw. I also want to see a lineage back at least four generations, and would like to her from other customers about the health and quality of their kits. I'm very picky when buying from breeders... I believe if I'm going to support a breeder it needs to be one who is bettering the ferret breed, and has a strong moral code when it comes to these treasured animals and family members. I worry about them trusting me though because I know someone asking to have and keep intact ferrets can be viewed as a dodgey BYB... So I want to put their minds at ease as well. I want nothing more than for a healthy FurrSon that will help further my understanding of the breed and that I can love for many years.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Aug 31, 2014 17:55:58 GMT -5
A v-hob is only useful if you keep jills in house or have friends who keep intact jills. Otherwise it's an expensive surgery, that offers no value if you've not got jills. Finding UK breeders who actually keep good records for as long as you're requesting might be more difficult than it sounds lol. The good breeders didn't and don't necessarily keep good records. Now that more of us have been asking they're a little more judicious. Old timers aren't likely to keep records except in their head. This is common practice. Having an entirely raw feeding breeder is also more difficult than you think Most supplement with kibbles You're as likely to find an all raw feeding breeder over there as you are here. Importing can be expensive but it is very rewarding if you're looking for a very specific type of ferret. There are a number of good breeders over here that do feed a mixture of raw and kibbles as well, so you may want to work your research to cover your bases here too. If you're willing to travel, there is some good stock in Hungary and some of the other republics as well as some of the European countries as well. In this day of international travel, as long as you're knowledgeable about the paper work needed to get your ferret from one country to the next you will be fine ciao
|
|
|
Post by unclejoe on Aug 31, 2014 18:00:50 GMT -5
You should be aware that poley hybrids have Attitude +. I do know a breeder in the US that has bred a pair and she gets bit a lot from the kits. We have a late-alter male (Jaffa) who now has adrenal. He was altered around 9 months and he's now 5. By the time we were able to get a des implant, he already had adrenal. We started looking as soon as it became available in the US but it took that long for local vets to get it, and Poppy was one of the first around here.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Aug 31, 2014 18:03:23 GMT -5
Now, come on poley hybrids aren't that bad really, they require a bit more work because they don't give their trust without you earning it but.....I don't get bit anymore than anyone else lol. My poley kits are good little brats. They only hunt my hubby, he tastes better than I . ciao
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 18:15:45 GMT -5
The attitude won't bother me, or the bites haha I've raised raccoon kits, now they're biters! Curious mites haha Well I may be able to forget the history back four generations... But I do very much want a strictly raw fed kit... Although supplementing is understandable as feeding so many buggers raw could get expensive on top of vetting fees. I'd go to Russia, Australia, or further to get the right kit for me... I just pray I don't have to haha Heather, your little ones are just too cute! I'd come steal them away if I could
|
|
|
Post by nancyl on Sept 1, 2014 16:54:05 GMT -5
I recommend staying away from hybrids for you first shot at a breeder ferret. They are exceedingly different and much more difficult to deal with. Find a reputable breeder who doesn't raise hybrids, or if they are, the polecat is much farther back. It's good that you are looking for a hob as the jills are much harder to deal with if you're unfamiliar with the hybrid traits. I'd never place a jill with someone who had never had anything but farm ferrets. I might even hesitate to place one with a breeder who'd never had hybrids. The girls are opinionated, stubborn and do not tolerate fools gladly. That said, they are remarkable creatures when they do form a bond with you. They are remarkable in other ways if they don't. And they will pick their person and can do so at a very young age.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 18:26:29 GMT -5
Oh, no worries, I if I ever do get a hybrid it won't be for many years, and after I've had a good amount of experience with ferrets. I am just worried that the breeder will ask me to neuter after the first season... I know why they ask this so idiots and bad people can't breed ferrets and harm the breed or just the ferret in general, but if I ever did decide to alter I would want to do it in the later years of the ferrets life... I am still even waiting a few years to get the intact boy so I have experience and can ensure I have the right vet, time, an money to invest in Puck and a new boy.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Sept 2, 2014 0:46:39 GMT -5
I have to admit, that Nancy's right. A poley X is not a good idea for your first breeder ferret, so I'm glad to see you're not really leaning in that direction. One thing to remember, if you're going to the UK to get your ferret, what we call a sable they call a poley. To a Brit, a poley is a colour not a breed type. I've been playing rescue for a lot of years and my specialty is hard core biters and down and out cases, mostly Path Valley, Real Canadians and Hagens, I've dealt with very few Marshals ferrets. Getting poleys was an "adventure" and I have to admit sitting and wondering about my sanity more than once. I think the hardest thing to deal with is that they do not trust easily. They think and react very differently than the regular ferret. I like Nancy's statement about "they don't suffer with fools". They were probably harder than all my rescues to get to trust me and they've never been ill used. I would hate to think what would happen if they were ever used poorly. I really had to work at it and if I made a mistake then I was back to the beginning because they don't forget and take a long time to forgive. There was more than a couple of times where I sat and really wondered if I'd ever bond with my girls. Tico wasn't near as hard as they were. I seemed to do everything wrong with Lola and just when we were bonding and getting to know each other she got pregnant, the ferret I got I was not prepared for. I'd been told what to do and what to expect but I still wasn't prepared for the wild creature I got. That little girlie was all set to trust me and birth her babies in my lap. The next morning when I went down to the nursery she attacked me. She was in full bore momma mode. Nesting areas were set up throughout the nursery and she changed nests as she saw fit, same as she would have in the wild. She moved the kits from one location to another, not me. I just cleaned up the nest and gave her new bedding so that she could return to that place at a later date. The kits were almost 2 weeks old before I was actually sure of how many I had. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade any of them, the experience when they finally give their love and trust is amazing, but definitely not for the unwary and untried. ciao Heather
|
|
|
Post by crazylady on Sept 3, 2014 13:55:26 GMT -5
can I also add some poley hobs(and jills) in breeding season can turn into the ferret from h*ll those who once kissed and cuddled turn into hissing biting demons there hormones go into over drive and all they have on there mind is mating if you ever break a poleys trust as heather has stated it takes a long long time for them to give you there trust again and no they never fully forget lol take care bye for now Bev
|
|