Lzylilk's Switching Thread / Mjbez

[Heather]

Name:Kimberly
HF Forum Username:lzylilk

1. I've known about a natural diet for ferrets for a very long time. I think the first time I really heard people discuss it was at the International Ferret Symposium in Las Vegas. I believe it was at a talk Bob Church was doing.

2. To be honest I don't know exactly what diet I want to switch to. I was hoping a mentor would help me figure out what will be best. I do know I don't want to feed a live diet. I'm doing this all for health reasons for my ferret.

3. I want to do this to prolong my ferrets life and to make sure he is healthy. He is having some health problems and I'm not ready to lose him yet. I saw a pic of someone on fb who had a ferret come in with adrenal disease and the ferret was balding. Within a short time between a deslorelin implant and a raw diet the ferret has his hair back. My ferret has this problem but his hair isn't growing back. After chatting with the girl from fb I'm starting to wonder if he has other health problems and it's time to get him on a healthier diet.

4. Yes I expect a diet switch to be a lengthy process. And oddly enough that's what I'm hoping for as I want to move him over slowly in a very healthy way. My ferret for the most part doesn't like people food and never has so especially with him I don't expect this to be an easy process at all.

5. I have one ferret. His name is Frisky. He is currently between 5-6 years old. His exact age is unknown as he is a rescue. His original owners dropped him off at a shelter because they didn't have time for him. I have had him for a little over 3 years. Yes he does have health problems. In December of 2012 he was diagnosed with insulimoma which he takes pred for. In May of 2013 I got him his first deslorelin implant as a preventative. In December of 2013 I started noticing he was losing hair. I took him to the vet and she wondered if he was blowing his coat and to give it time. As time progressed it got worse. I messaged Dr. Jerry Murray and he suggested I give him both an des and melatonin implant. In March of this year I took him in and he got both. I have yet to see ANY hair growth. In fact he is still losing hair.

6. He is currently on a mix of kibble. The mix is Innova Evo for cats, 8-in-1 Ultimate, and Zupreem. In the morning when I give him his pred I follow it up with some Ferretone. In the evening I give him duck soup. I make him a duck soup that includes his pred, I take some of his kibble and grind it up in a coffee grinder and mix it up with Nupro and I put a little of that in his soup, along with Gerber chicken baby food, and some soy milk. I was using vanilla Ensure but then I thought the Ensure had too much sugar.

7. No I have never tried a natural diet before.

8. I was recently given a link to an updated version of ferret food. I feel like in the last few years I have really buried my head in the sand as far as diet is concerned. While I have known about a raw diet for years I wasn't interested until now. However, after looking at the updated kibble list I feel like I'm feeding my ferret 2 foods that are complete junk. I'm open to doing everything really slow even if at first it just means changing his kibble and moving forward. A few months ago I was given a can of Evangers chicken wet ferret food and mixing it in with his kibble. He would eat some of it but not all of it. But because my ferret has insulinoma I don't want to stop feeding him. As I've heard of people doing that to get their ferrets on a raw food diet.

9. I pretty much can access the internet any time. I do have a full-time M-F, 9-5 job. But I have a smart phone and computer at home.

11. Yes I already have a scale, I can access the meat, and I already have a coffee grinder for the eggshells. I also read all the links and watched the videos.


Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentor (Mjbez) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[mjbez]

Hello! I look forward to working with u and your little guy! Let's start with an update, anything new? What is he eating? Current pictures, weights etc?

Here is a little about me


Name: Mandelle

HFF Screen Name: mjbez



Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

About Me: I am 26 years old. I completed my Bachelor of Education in 2010 and am a grade 7/8 teacher. 

My favorite color is..... Turquoise
My favorite food is.... Ice cream!
My favorite holiday is... Although it isn't technically a "holiday" I would say the summer. As a teacher this is my 2 months off 
My favorite hobby is... too many things to list! My ferrets are my number one hobby, but I also like to read, watch T.V., go for walks, talk, etc.
I like to listen to... almost anything
I collect... Well, I would be tempted to say ferrets! I don't tend to collect any objects.
Something about me you might be surprised to know... Hmm...I don't think there is too much surprising about me!

I became a mentor because... I believe in providing the best for the animals we care for. I switched 3 of my ferrets with the help of the holistic ferret forum mentors and 2 on my own. I have always been the kind of person that likes to help and teach others (that was a big part of my becoming a teacher). Now that I have gained a lot of information and knowledge I would like to pay it forward and help someone in their switch!

About My Ferrets:

Kyra- Kyra was my first ferret and is absolutely my heart ferret. She is currently 6 years old. She has been switched to raw since June 2012. Kyra was a hyper young ferret but now is content to follow me around - she is definitely a momma's girl!
Mika - Mika was my second ferret. Mika is currently 5 years old. She came to me as a severe biter. She was switched at the same time as Kyra. Once she started on raw I saw a decrease in any nipping. Mika is being treated for adrenal.
Bear - Bear was ferret number 3 and was my first male ferret. He is currently 4 years old. He is the sweetest boy and has WS. He was switched at the same time as Kyra and Mika. He was my easiest of the three. Bear is adrenal as well and is being treated.
Zeke - Zeke is my crazy lunatic ferret! He is constantly into something and has tonnes of energy. He is 1 year old. I switched him the day I brought him home. He took to raw immediately with zero issues.
Miya- Miya came to me from a couple that was no longer able to take care of her. She is a sweet girl that loves getting lots of attention. She is also 1 year old. I started her switch as soon as she came into my care. She took about 2 months to fully switch. 


About My Natural Feeding Experience:
Kyra, Mika and Bear have been raw fed since 2012. It took a few months to get them eating raw but thanks to the mentors on this forum learned so much and my switch was successful. I currently feed a frankenprey diet with three meals of commercial raw.
Type of mentor: I am a mentor in training so I am open to different types of switches

Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/176/meet-mentor#ixzz38eB9EF8T

[mjbez]

bump

[Deleted]

Here's my baby from a camping trip back in May.




And here he is sleeping in my bed!!! He's beyond spoiled! lol

[mjbez]

What a cutie.

So lets get started.


Could I get a current picture of your little guy (top view)

And then once a week please post:
1. Ferret's weight (in brackets put weight gain or loss since beginning)
2. Amount eaten
3. Stools
4. Activity level
5. Weekly menu

About once a week I would like you to update me on the above 1-5.

Have you made soupie? Have you tried it yet? Can you update me on anything that you have been doing with him so far, or if you haven't started that yet just let me know.

During the soupie stage the mentoring program requires you to post every 2 days. You can post more if you like. But especially with your little guy having insulinoma it is crucial that we have good communication.

Soupie recipe (just in case you need )

8oz chicken meat
1 oz chicken hearts
1 oz chicken liver
1/2 tsp powdered eggshell

Let me know if you have any questions about what I have posted.  

[Deleted]

Hello,

So I just took his weight. Boy that was a little difficult lol. He is at 3 lbs 1 oz. I currently feed him a mix of kibble that is Innova Evo for cats, Zupreem and 8 in 1 ultimate. His kibble is out in his cage 24/7. At night I give him his duck soup. I make that with chicken baby food, his kibble that I grind up in a coffee grinder and soy milk, I also hide his pred in it. He was diagnosed with insulimona in December 2012. He takes .02 cc's and his dosage hasn't increased since he was diagnosed. I take him in about once every 6 months to have his blood glucose level checked. Since being in this board I have already made up a big batch of eggs shells I ground up in the coffee grinder. In the last few weeks I've been sprinkling a little of that in his soup every night. He also has adrenal and we've been having a rough time with that, that's what brought me to this board. His health seems ok, its more his looks that the adrenal is effecting. In May of 2013 I have him a deslorelin implant just as a preventative. In December I noticed hair loss. I went to my vet but she wanted to make sure he wasn't blowing his coat since he only had the implant for 6 months. Within the next couple months he shed more hair so I contact Dr. Jerry Murray. He suggested I get another des implant and a melatonin implant. I did both of those in March. But the hair loss continued. Its finally started to grow back about 1.5-2 months ago.

He is approximately around 6 years old. His exact age is unknown because he was a rescue. His original owners dropped him off at a shelter because they didn't have time for him. He is the only ferret I currently have and he HATES other ferrets. But he is the 6th ferret I've had. He's a bit of a lazy ferret and has been since a few days after he came into my home. He's a total love bug and cuddler. That's why I kept him. He was just supposed to be a foster, but he completely stole my heart.

I will include some personal info about myself since you did. I'll be 37 in less than a week. I have my B.S. degree in business and work at a small local university. I live in the San Francisco bay area and have my entire life. I'm also the president of a ferret club. We have meetings twice a month in two different cities. I've been involved with ferrets since 1996 and I started my club in 2005. Even though ferrets are illegal in California I've helped out with rescue for years and been in the underground ferret railroad. This past weekend my club just had our annual Ferret Pool Party, that's why I wasn't online much these past few days. So ferrets are a huge hobby of mine. I don't have any kids and I'm single. I primarily listen to rap, hip hop, and R&B music. I also love to go camping or glamping as some call is because I go in an RV and my ferret does go with me.

Now for the soup recipe I know for the 8 oz of chicken meat I should use thigh meat because it will be easier to blend it up in the blender in comparison to breast meat. I think that information is correct from a previous post. Now once I make the soup should I try just feeding that? Should I get rid of the kibble in his cage? Should I heat up the soup at all? Or give it to him cold? I currently heat up his soup I give him. If you could walk me through that I would appreciate it so I know how to let you know how much he's been eating.

Oh one more thing, when I give him his pred in the morning I also give him some ferretone as a treat.

Thank you for everything and I hope I don't drive you crazy lol.

[mjbez]

Thanks for all the information about you! It's awesome to know who I am working with. I apologize I didn't post yesterday, I had my Grandma here the past 2 days.

I have never heard of giving soy milk to ferrets so I had to look it up and here is what I found "soy milk can interfere with absorption of calcium in ferrets". So I say ditch the soy. Being soy comes from a bean and not an animal I would say that its time to ditch it. Sorry. If you want a creamy treat to add you could try giving a small amount of plain balkan yogurt which is good for digestion and probiotics.

For soup use chicken thigh - thighs have more nutritional value than breasts.
You will need to add some water (start with little, then add more as needed ) when you blend your soupie in the blender. You have the heart and liver too right? You will find adding a little at a time will allow the soupie to mix to a nice consistency. Think cream soup consistency. Make a batch and freeze it in ice cube trays. Each "cube" is usually close to an ounce. (always weigh before and after feeding to get an accurate check on amount eaten). You can keep out a little in the fridge that you will try to use in the first couple days.
Once you need a cube run the bottom of the ice cube tray under warmish water and then twist. Voila! they pop out and you have a serving to try and feed. I put my one cube in a little baggie and soak it in warm water to warm it. Most ferrets will prefer warm. Never microwave raw foods with bones (even with egg shells). Take away Frisky's food about 1 hour ahead (or 1.5). Then when he comes out to play dab his lips with the soup. Expect any reaction. He may like it, or may act like you are trying to poison him. If he likes it and eats, great. Likely he won't right away. So continue to dab his lips every 5 minutes when he is out. I usually held mine on my lap when I did this. If he licks it off without a tantrum then dab a little more. Finger feeding is usually step one. The biggest hurdle is that he can't be made hungry before trying to offer him soup with is his insulinoma. But it can still be done.
If he does consume a little bit of soup at a time you can try repeating dabbing for a while. If he doesn't accept it at all then make sure he has food available after 30 mins to an hour. If you have time try this at least a few times a day (or as much as you can handle, while ensuring he is eating). Otherwise try 2-3. I used to try in the AM and 1-2 times in the PM when I was switching.

Hints to help -
* Consider making a double batch of soupie at a time. I found this to be a huge time saver
* Ditch the ferretone - try fish oil or even Extra Virgin Olive Oil (EVOO). Ferretone has preservatives etc that are not favorable
* Serve soup warm - warm up in sink with warm water.
* You could try some baby food on top of the raw soupie since he is familiar with it. He may try a little if it seems familiar
* Weigh food before and after feedings and jot down how much he eats each time
* If the soupie gets a little "tacky" from being out for a little while just add some more warm water. Soupie should be OK for about 8 hours out of fridge.
* Feed him as much as he wants. When he decides to eat, give him as much as he likes. When they first accept soup they often eat lots, but slow down as their body gets the nutrients they need
* Don't let your boy go longer than a couple hours without food.

* most importantly, ask questions. You will not drive me crazy. I am here to help and if I didn't want to I wouldn't be a mentor. You are my third mentee but my first with an insulinoma baby. I want to be upfront about that. I have been educating myself and am in close contact with the senior experienced mentors. I really look forward to working with you to get your little guy on the best diet possible!

[Deleted]

Thanks for all of that info. That is really helpful. And no worries about yesterday. I totally understand how things are and people get busy. Now I want to give you a heads up about something and you can advise me how to handle it. In the beginning of September I will be going out of town for a few days. I have a sitter for Frisky and I will be able to get on the phone. But during that time I'm not going to be able to give you info regarding weights of how much he's eating. I know that's a month away and I hope things are going good by then but I still wanted to let you know.

Years ago I was given a recipe for duck soup of chicken baby food and vanilla ensure. The ensure has so much sugar in it, that's why I switched to soy milk. But that's good to know and I will switch it. The info on microwaving the food including egg shells was helpful too.

Now until we're ready for the next step I should continue to keep kibble in his cage correct? I will try the food on the finger thing. Thats kind of how I got him to start eating duck soup on his own a couple years ago. Now should I do any force feeding of the soup? And I did think I would add a little chicken baby food in the beginning to start the transition. Do they seem to like EVOO as much as they do Ferretone?

I will let you know how things go. I have to say I'm excited and nervous at the same time. But I appreciate how supportive you are.

[Deleted]

This is the first batch of eggs shells I did. The eggs are fresh from a farmers market.

[Deleted]

And here are some pics I just took for the top view you asked for.

[mjbez]

Thanks for the pics. What a cutie!

Aug 7, 2014 1:18:23 GMT -5 @lzylilk said:

Thanks for all of that info. That is really helpful. And no worries about yesterday. I totally understand how things are and people get busy. Now I want to give you a heads up about something and you can advise me how to handle it. In the beginning of September I will be going out of town for a few days. I have a sitter for Frisky and I will be able to get on the phone. But during that time I'm not going to be able to give you info regarding weights of how much he's eating. I know that's a month away and I hope things are going good by then but I still wanted to let you know.

Years ago I was given a recipe for duck soup of chicken baby food and vanilla ensure. The ensure has so much sugar in it, that's why I switched to soy milk. But that's good to know and I will switch it. The info on microwaving the food including egg shells was helpful too.

Now until we're ready for the next step I should continue to keep kibble in his cage correct? I will try the food on the finger thing. Thats kind of how I got him to start eating duck soup on his own a couple years ago. Now should I do any force feeding of the soup? And I did think I would add a little chicken baby food in the beginning to start the transition. Do they seem to like EVOO as much as they do Ferretone?

I will let you know how things go. I have to say I'm excited and nervous at the same time. But I appreciate how supportive you are.

For going out of town lets see where we are at that stage. It is hard to predict if he will be accepting soups or not at that stage. I'll just have you give me his weight before you go and I only need it once a week so it will be fine. Feel free to have the sitter pop in with me and ask any questions etc.

Yes keep kibble in his cage until you are ready to start letting him taste the soupies. Take the kibble away about an hour in advance but otherwise he eats his kibble as per usual. No need to force feed. Just grab him up, dab his mouth and release. Rinse and repeat as many times as you please. Just ensuring that he never goes too long in between meals (assuming he doesn't consume much soupie). You can absolutely try adding a little baby food at the beginning. This may make it easier.
Not all ferrets love Evoo but many do. Just try offering a little. I use fish oil mostly but most of mine wouldn't eat it plain. I mix it in a couple meals per week.

PS. Being nervous is very very normal! I remember feeling so scared to start.

[mjbez]

Also - an easy way to weigh them is a good sized bowl or I use a tupperware container. Set it on the scale and zero it. Then place ferret in container.

[Deleted]

I just made the soup and put in in the ice cube trays and its now in the freezer. While making it I kept stirring it and adding more water as I thought it needed it. Once I went to pour it, it seemed just a little too watery but I'm sure it can't hurt. Plus it's start. The other thing is on the liver and hearts I did weigh them and they were just slightly over an ounce. I'm going to assume being over just a tiny bit won't hurt either. Now is it normal that for the first time I made this I wanted to puke? lol.

A few more questions I have. I bought a package at the store that was chicken hearts and gizzards. Now the package did say mostly gizzards. Boy they weren't lying about that. It literally had 2 hearts in it and the rest was gizzards. That was from the grocery store. I went to a local butcher but they don't carry them. So I had to back to the grocery store and get another package of hearts & gizzards. I'm sure things are different from CA & Canada. But do you at all experience this too? I mean if that's what I have to do I'll do it. But it seems kind of a waste that I'm buying all the gizzards just to throw them away. Any advice you can give me on that would be appreciated. If I have to just continue to buy what I did I will. Also I looked for Balkan yogurt at the grocery store today and they didn't have that brand. Is there any other brand I can use?

Thanks for the input about my trip next month. I agree lets wait til it gets closer and go from there.

[mjbez]

Yes making the soupie at first is a little gross, but trust me you get used to it (or at least I did)
Don't throw out the gizzards. Frisky may like them and they are great for teeth! They are considered a muscle meat.
I am able to buy hearts in a package in my freezer section. I can also buy beef hearts. So here I am lucky and don't have any problems with that.
Have you checked more grocery stores, asian markets, etc? Also, there are some online raw providers but I don't know too much about them as they don't ship here. EX Hare Today. If I could order from them I would. You can buy hearts from them (I found them under chicken) You can also look to see if thighs etc are cheaper with them. Brain and tongue is also high in taurine. If that isn't possible a taurine supplement can be purchased and given 500mg taurine per day. Anytime you can get heart or brains etc I would always recommend that over a supplement. Check out online providers around you
Balkan isn't a brand but a type. I found here Astro yogurt carried the balkan style yogurt. But honestly, I'm not sure it is even needed for your little guy. So if you can't find any I wouldn't worry. Dairy can cause some loose poops so you need to be careful.

[Deleted]

Hello,

So I have a little bit of an update for this evening. I took one of the ice cubes and placed it in warm water to defrost and get warm. Then added a little Gerber chicken food to it. The ice cube of food weighed 7/8 oz. Once I added the Gerber Chicken food to it it weighed 1 3/8 oz. The bowl plus all the food weighed a total of 8 1/8 oz. What I found out is he definitely likes his food warm. But I sat with him like you said. He knew his food bowl but wasn't interested in it at all. I'm sure because it didn't completely like what he is used to. I put some on his gums and eventually on his tongue. He didn't hate it like it like he does his meds lol. At first I just kept doing that. I would rub some on his gums and he would eat it and then walk away, but I would get him again and give him more. Eventually he started licking it out of the bowl while I was holding him. After awhile I was able to put the bowl down and he continued to eat it. There was 2 pieces of chicken in the bowl and one got in his mouth. He chewed it a bit but then got it out of his mouth. He wasn't interested in it lol. He ate all the food except the 2 pieces of chicken. When it was done the bowl and the food weighed 6 7/8 oz. But a couple hours later he was hungry again so I gave him some of his regular soup I usually make.

I'm thinking tomorrow night I will give him more food cause what I gave him tonight clearly wasn't enough. What do you think? Thanks for the info about the yogurt. I know they shouldn't have dairy, that's also why I was using the soy milk. Now you also mentioned something about not heating the food in the microwave because of bones. I assumed it was boneless skinless chicken breasts, so I don't have any bones. Should I have gotten them with the bones? If so will that grind up in the microwave?

Thanks for the idea about the Asian markets. I will check them out. We have a couple in the area.