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Post by katt on Jan 29, 2015 15:10:11 GMT -5
LOL So is he going to be a long-term "foster?" *ahem*
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 9:47:32 GMT -5
I secretly hope so I want to put some food pictures here. I made them turkey yesterday with chicken foot. And I cut the turkey by the vertebrae, then I mashed each one with just a couple of hammer hits. So that the bones were broken, but only into a couple of bits. Here are the bits. This is 2 big meals worth. This is what we were left with. In the bowl was what was left, beside it is what i stole from their favorite stash. So they ate the big pieces and bigger bones... or I haven't found the other stash yet.. I just spied on Zack while he was eating. They eat very loudly! And he was munching on the big bony chunks, his ears were moving while he chewed with all his might.
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Post by katt on Jan 30, 2015 14:47:58 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 18:56:24 GMT -5
We just got Rapscallion home today. The lady who he was staying with, gave me just a bit of his kibble. Enough for about a day or two. So I'll have to get some from the shelter, if I want to feed him this... Which I don't really... So that brings up a question. I can feed him all meat here, but will he eat kibble after having a month on meat? I think mine still would, they are interested in the smell. He has the biggest poops! They're as big as my pinkie finger, and smell like death. He gets along with my business alright. I gave them all a bath together, because friendships forged in misery are stronger. Here he is, I'll take a picture of him from the top tomorrow, or later this week. They had a bunch of oil today, and it would be hard to photo them without its help. I'll weigh them all today. Zack is at 1410 grams Raps is at 1380 grams Honey is at 1100 grams Miri is at 890 grams I made my crowd really big chicken chunks today, hopefully they take them. And this is what Rapscallion had for dinner this evening. It was liberally doused with coconut oil, and we ate it out of a spoon. I don't know whether he had tried any other type of soup before in his life.
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Post by katt on Feb 1, 2015 4:49:20 GMT -5
What a cutie!! (dance) For kibble...he may or may not eat it after a month on raw. Kibble addicts often go happily back to it but ferrets who get hooked on raw don't. Koda went full raw his first day home as a kit and wouldn't touch the kibble my roommate snuck into the cage. I would consider still offering it at least once or twice a week so he continues to recognize it as food....it you could just, you know, officially adopt him. (giggle) Nice big chunks for your crew!!!! How did they take them? They are doing so great! When is your next organ day?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2015 14:49:06 GMT -5
Ok I will offer Raps up kibble during the days mine get organs. Between those days I'll leave him some jerky in the cage, so he had something crunchy to munch. I'll tell you how he takes it later this evening.
I think I'll give him 30-50 grams soupie in the morning and evening. And he will also have the jerky in his cage at night. And kibble 2-3 times a week - Wednesday and weekends.... What a spoiled life he came to.
Mine ate up the chunks, or stashed them. I will put the picture of what they left behind when I get home.
And top and hanging pics as well I think.
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2015 2:29:47 GMT -5
Wooot! How are you feeling with hearts and organs?
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Post by katt on Feb 3, 2015 3:34:20 GMT -5
Heads up, I'll be out until Friday, exam coming up and have a lot of required busy-work this week that's cutting into my precious study time. :,( You can always PM me on FB if something comes up though. I can never manage to really get away from FB bc I have a lot of school related stuff there. lol
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2015 11:09:22 GMT -5
Hello The hearts and organs usually go pretty well with them. I give them heart soupie sometimes with a quail egg on Saturday, and I am sure this is their favorite meal; they usually lick the plate clean clean. Chicken liver I feed them on Sunday, and I cut it into small bits, and add a quail egg; this they usually eat pretty well. On Wednesday they get pork or beef heart + pork or beef organ meal with an egg yolk and some oil; but this meal is either hit or miss, sometimes they eat it fine, sometimes they hardly touch it. I am ok with blending up their heart, and cutting the liver and organs up pretty small. I think it would do them good to remain used to a variety or meal textures and bite sizes Unfortunately I didn't get to the hanging and top pics for them this week Hopefully this week, but it promises to be quite busy. Anyways, with the bone in meals. We upped the chunk size, and it went quite well, some of the biggest ones still got stashed, but we are working on it. I was wondering at what point does it stop? Because i give them chunks about the size of my fingers or even a bit bigger now. I still smash the bone in the turkey necks so i can cut it up. But what is the ultimate size or goal? And when they get comfortable, lets say, eating a whole turkey neck (they are the ones hardest to cut up without a hammer). How would I divide it between the three of them? or do they just take turns on it? What about the last one that gets to eat has lots of bone in their meal, but the first one will just eat the fleshy bits? How does full frankenprey really work with them? I just feel that the last month or so I keep writing very similar things about the chunks Which I am so happy that they are eating. I think if I had a clearer picture of what it ends up with I could push them faster to it. I was reflecting on the progress that they have had, and what they can do now. They recognize meat chunks with bone, jerky meat, soupie. I don't have to mince their meals for an hour so that the pieces are tiny little slivers. It takes 5-10 minutes to prepare them a meal, which is absolutely fine with me. I wanted to thank you so very much for your patience and advice A question on a different note: How does taurine fare when it has been jerkified, and same for the liver? After being subjected to low temperature cooking, do the nutrients remain intact or do they disappear completely? Now with Rapscallion, we have established a sort of schedule. He gets kibble about twice a week, I got him Nature's Variety Instinct Freeze Dried Raw Boost with duck and turkey flavor, it has 81% protein, 18% fat and bits of freeze dried meat. He also enjoys my dried jerky another two times a week. Lastly he eats soup with pea sized chicken or duck chunks for the rest of the time.
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Post by katt on Feb 11, 2015 1:47:51 GMT -5
Hey sorry having Internet issues and some school drama. Have to use my phone so if I miss Q's please make sure I know so I can answer them! Turkey necks - they will take turns. Honestly though I usually still chop them a bit just bc the bones are big and they can eat more of the bone if it's a bit smashed. Size - as big or small as you want to prepare every time! I actually asked about the heart and organs because now that they are doing well on good aized bone chunks, I think you're reay to graduate! (dance) I just needed to make sure they were doing okay wih hearts and organs first. I would really like to see them eat some heart chunks, it's just muscle so you should be able to work them up to it. That said you don't need me for that! Taurine - I'm not sure about dehydrating, that's a good Question. I *believe* it's fine but would have to double check to be 100% sure. I think some people have used FD hearts in the past when raw ones were hard to find. HEAT denatures taurine, but freezing it doesn't destroy it - that I do know for sure. Now this graduating business... To graduate you have to submit a final menu plan demonstrating proper balance and variety using the meats that you feed. There's also a small "final exam" that's really just to ensure that *I* didn't miss teaching you anything important before I send you off on your own. When you have time this week, please post a week's menu. We'll discuss how to adjust it if needed, and then I'll post the "exam" Q's and submit your menu to Heather for final approval. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 13:31:13 GMT -5
Oh this is excellent!
Last queries then:
1. Ok so from the last post I also asked about whether the jerky process would have an effect on the necessary nutrients in liver as well?
I ask this because I want to have a complete dry food for them that they could eat short term, if we leave for a couple of days, or maybe a week or so. I make it by heating it at 150F for about 3-6 hours. And I want to know whether I should buy some separate freeze dried liver, or heart, or taurine powder? Or if I can just add the heart and liver, and dry them myself?
2. With the chunk size that I have, I leave their meat out about 12-14 hours. Does putting the meat in some water affect the time that it can be left out?
And what is the time that meat this size can be left out safely?
3.As I understand, they can't overdose on taurine. So if they eat more hearts than their one and a half meal per week, nothing bad will happen? (not that we are planning on doing that)
About the heart meat. They can eat it in chunks (I've seen it happen), but they seemed to like it so much more as a soup so I just left them with it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 14:01:51 GMT -5
Menu example for graduation (dance)
Monday: Morning: Rabbit with bone meal Evening: Rabbit with bone meal
Tuesday: Morning: Lamb muscle meal Evening: Chicken with bone meal
Wednesday: Morning: Chicken with bone meal Evening: 1/2 Pork Heart, 1/2 Pork Kidney meal, with egg yolk
Thursday: Morning: Duck with bone meal Evening: Duck with bone meal
Friday: Morning: Chicken Gizzards (muscle) meal Evening: Pork Riblets (bone) meal
Saturday: Morning: Turkey Neck bone meal Evening: Chicken Heart meal with one quail egg
Sunday: Morning: Turkey Neck bone meal Evening: Chicken Liver meal with one quail egg
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Post by katt on Feb 13, 2015 21:46:45 GMT -5
1. Ok so from the last post I also asked about whether the jerky process would have an effect on the necessary nutrients in liver as well?
I ask this because I want to have a complete dry food for them that they could eat short term, if we leave for a couple of days, or maybe a week or so. I make it by heating it at 150F for about 3-6 hours. And I want to know whether I should buy some separate freeze dried liver, or heart, or taurine powder? Or if I can just add the heart and liver, and dry them myself?Considering that the dehydration process involves heat, I would say yes - it probably does alter the nutrition requirements. If you are doing homemade jerky, then that would potentially decrease the taurine content. If you meant air-dried "Ferret jerky" from leftover meat stashes in your earlier question, then I am not sure. But heat denatures proteins. If you want a complete food to feed them on trips I would really recommend freeze dried raw. It is great to keep around for the occasional treat (I put it in foraging toys for my boys) so they continue to remember that it is "food," and then you can feed it when you are gone, traveling (my boys got FD for our drive down from Alaska to Washington), or if you are in a pinch and out of fresh food. I try to always keep some around. I prefer Stella and Chewey's personally - but that's largely due to the fact that it used to be the ONLY quality FD I could get my hands on. Wysong makes a FD raw food as well I believe. 2. With the chunk size that I have, I leave their meat out about 12-14 hours. Does putting the meat in some water affect the time that it can be left out? If anything I would think that putting it in water would make it more prone to spoiling. Normally meat dries before it goes bad. You may have noticed by now, but there are stages...first before it spoils, the meat dries up, the ferrets will still eat it as it dries. Then it goes through a greasy stinky phase - this is usually when I toss it, the ferrets will not eat it at this point. THEN if it gets missed in a stash, the stinky meat finishes drying out, stops stinking, and the ferrets will eat it again as prized "ferret jerky. Putting the meat in water would prevent the ability of the meat to dry out. The reason it stops stinking after it gets totally dried out is related to the bacteria not flourishing on it any more - they like moist, nutrient rich places. Putting the meat in water would theoretically let the bacteria keep growing, so if anything it would spoil faster rather than last longer. Ferrets are very good at telling when meat is too bad for them to eat. Just like WE instinctively know that the moldy piece of bread, or the leftovers in the fridge that smell "off" are probably not good to eat, they too are good at determining what is "good enough" for them. And what is the time that meat this size can be left out safely? General rule of thumb: Soups: ~6-8 hours Grinds: 8-10 hours Chunks and bones: 12-24 hours depending on size of chunks and bones (bigger and bone-in lasts longer) Whole prey: 24-48 hours 3.As I understand, they can't overdose on taurine. So if they eat more hearts than their one and a half meal per week, nothing bad will happen? (not that we are planning on doing that) Nope! You would have to REAAAAALLLY overdo the taurine to do any damage, and you would probably have to mega-overdo it for an extended period of time too. Excess taurine is simply filtered out through the kidneys and excreted in their urine. About the heart meat. They can eat it in chunks (I've seen it happen), but they seemed to like it so much more as a soup so I just left them with it. It's up to you - you are the one who has to do the blending! Personally, I prefer to see them eating chunks of everything because they CAN and letting them not is simply giving in to their stubborn toddler-like ways. And of course chunks are always better for their teeth. That said, they are eating plenty of muscle and bone chunks so there isn't a problem with them eating the hearts and organs pureeed - just means more work for you when prepping!
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Post by katt on Feb 13, 2015 21:52:46 GMT -5
Menu example for graduation (dance) Monday: Morning: Rabbit with bone meal Evening: Rabbit with bone meal Tuesday: Morning: Lamb muscle meal Evening: Chicken with bone meal Wednesday: Morning: Chicken with bone meal Evening: 1/2 Pork Heart, 1/2 Pork Kidney meal, with egg yolk Thursday: Morning: Duck with bone meal Evening: Duck with bone meal Friday: Morning: Chicken Gizzards (muscle) meal Evening: Pork Riblets (bone) meal Saturday: Morning: Turkey Neck bone meal Evening: Chicken Heart meal with one quail egg Sunday: Morning: Turkey Neck bone meal Evening: Chicken Liver meal with one quail egg Wait...why are they getting bone meal? (Is what what you mean by "with bone meal?") If they are eating bones, stop the bone meal - that's too much calcium. The bone-in meals should provide sufficient calcium. You can judge if they need more or less based on their poops - too hard/dry means they have too much bone, too soft means they need more bone. Or by "bone meal" you mean bone-in meals? hahaha It's been a long week. Can you just clarify that for me so I can be totally sure? Otherwise it looks great. Great variety, hearts and organs balanced, 7 bone-in meals (you can bump that up or down as needed). Well done! Just let me know on the bone-in meal vs bone-meal thing and I'll send this to Heather for approval!
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Post by katt on Feb 13, 2015 21:56:01 GMT -5
"Final Exam"
1.) You have run out of heart, how much taurine supplement should your ferrets get? (be specific) 2.) Does freezing degrade taurine? 3.) How can you tell if your ferret is getting too much or too little bone? 4.) Why are cooked bones dangerous and raw bones safe? 5.) What counts as a "different protein source?" 6.) List 3 organs aside from liver. 7.) Give 2 examples each of muscle meat, edible bones, and organs. 8.) Are gizzards a muscle meat, or an organ? 9.) Is it a good idea to mix muscle meat, bone in and organs all in one meal. Explain why. 10.) Is it best to feed the egg whites, egg yolk, or the entire egg? 11.) How can you tell if your ferret is too fat or too skinny? 12.) About how long is a ferret's digestion time? 13.) What is a healthy diet item that can be used for hairballs, and his often should you give it? 14.) Is dark or white meat a better purchase choice?
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