Treating Insulinoma with Freeze dried raw

[DC_Ferret]

Hi.  I just applied to be a member, but my question is a bit urgent.  I have been reading posts on this forum for the last few weeks regarding insulinoma and kibble vs. raw diet. (Can I just say, what the heck?  Why don't vets tell you about the link btwn. kibble and insulinoma?)

Anyway, what I am looking for, specifically, is how to treat the insulinoma just with diet.  I will most likely use Stella and Chewys (b/c it is easy to get locally) but am open to any food suggestions that can be purchased online.

Here is some background: Romeo (who is, I think, about 5 - not sure as we adopted him) was diagnosed with insulinoma late last year. The vet prescribed presdnisolone and we were giving it to him 2x a day. For a while, he was taking it fine with some soupy (boiled chicken, glucerna, Wysong epigen 90 kibble, eggshells, ferratone). No diarrhea, he got some of his weight back, everything was going fine. Then the Wysong epigen 90 was reformulated and it gave all our ferrets horrible diarrhea (I won't get into that - that is a different, very angry post). We thought it was just a transition issue (although we had no idea the formula had been changed at all at first - grrrrrrr).  Anyway, when we finally figured out that the diarrhea was not stopping and we switched them off of it, the other 2 ferrets improved, but Romeo did not.  He is still having horrible diarrhea. He's lost a lot of weight. He has been getting so upset with taking the medicine the last day or so, that I have stopped giving it him and have been giving him a soupy every few hours instead.

What I am trying to determine is:

1 - can I treat my ferret with diet alone?  And how do I know if it is working or not? By the way he is acting and whether his diarrhea improves?
2 - If I am using Stella and Chewy's, how often do I have to feed him? 
3 - How do I transition him to it?  He is still eating some kibble - a mix of orijen cat & kitten and evo ferret.

He has also just been diagnosed with adrenal and has just gotten the implant (which helped my two other girls a lot).  Is there anything to keep in mind for a ferret with insulinoma and adrenal disease in terms of raw diet?

Are there specific directions somewhere of how to transition him to freeze dried raw, how often to feed and how to tell if it is effective (and what other signs might show that it is now effective).

Many, many thanks for your help!!

[bitbyter]

No unfortunately you cannot treat existing insulinoma with diet alone. A raw diet will definitely help keep his blood sugar more stable (smaller drops and it won't spike as high).

You might be able to lower his medication once he is fully on raw but I don't know if I would personally risk it.

As for how to transition, read through some of the switching threads here as examples:

holisticferret60.proboards.com/board/55/archives

[Deleted]

I'm so sorry to hear about Romeo. (I have a Romeo also, and call him Roamy). Insulinoma is not easy to deal with and the best thing that you can do for Romeo, is to get educated on Insulinoma. Just like with humans, we are our own best health advocates. Learn the signs of his Blood glucose dropping and offer him some food then. Also make sure that he eats before the Pred.
I understand how difficult it gets, to give them their meds. My Ponce also had Insulinoma and Lymphoma. We used a syringe and dipped it into some Duk soup and then after the Med, we syringed some water into him, to help get rid of the taste. You can get it compounded with a flavor, but Ponce didn't care for that either.

Talk to your vet about adding diazoxide to his pred. That can help stabilize his blood glucose.
Also, here is a good overview of what to expect with Insulinoma:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/2702

There has been alot of discussion about the Wysong formula change. You aren't the only ferrent reporting diarrhea. Here is just one discussion, that we have had:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/14458/wysong-ferret-epigen-formula-change

My four were on FDR for almost a year, before I switched to Frankenprey. It wasn't hard to convince them to eat it. I didn't have to do anything special, though I did get a piece wet and offer it to them by hand. After that they were all fine with it.
They loved the Stella and Chewy's tummy, ticklin turkey and duck,duck,goose. We also used Wysong Archetypal 1 and Whole Life Cod. I tried alot of different flavors of Natures Variety Instinct raw.
Just make sure that you have the feline version and grain free on any product.

I always rehydrated it. I fed it just like regular raw. I put a dish out in the morning and then picked that one up and put a dinner dish out. So all in all, it sat out safely for 12 hours or so.
I also used the guidelines for a Frankenprey diet and offered at least three different proteins in their weekly menu.

Why don't you try making some soupie and see if Romeo will eat some. You know how good soup tastes when you are sick.
For soupie, use 8oz of chicken thigh or breast (thigh is best)
1-2 chicken hearts
1/2 chicken liver
1/2 tsp of dried eggshell powder.
Add some warm water. Some ferrets like it watery and some like it thicker. Blend this up in a blender, magic bullet or food processor.
 If you are syringe feeding, you will want it thinner.  You can pick up a larger syringe, also.
You can freeze the soup in ice cube trays and pop them out as needed.

Good Luck and keep us updated. I hope to see you around the forum and find out that Romeo is doing well.
All my Best,
Stef.

[Sherry]

I agree- raw will definitely help but it cannot reverse damage already done, nor is insu manageable with diet alone unless only suspicious BG's have come back. Not low enough to be confirmed insu, but not normal either. That would be VERY early stage.
Once a diagnosis is confirmed medication is required to prevent seizures.

[miamiferret2]

yes you can feed an insulinomic ferret Freeze Dried Raw Stella & Chewys
it often does help keep their BG better controlled than when they are eating kibbles.

is he eating this freeze dried raw willingly? crumble it and add warm water to it. not hot water, just warm water from the tap. you should rehydrate at least 2 of his meals a day. since he has insulinoma he should have food available to him 24/7. in the morning, crumble up a whole patty for him and add water to it. let him eat all he wants. before you leave to work, if he left over at least 1/2 of it, then i would add some more water to it and leave it in his cage. if he ate it all, crumble up another patty, rehydrate and leave it for him so he can eat while you are gone if he gets hungry.
also leave him DRY freeze dried (if he will eat it dry that is). just rip it into tiny pieces and leave in his bowl with fresh water near by.

when you get home, repeat what you did in the morning. always make sure he has food available. that is most important with insulinoma ferrets. if you have to sit there with him while he eats his food, then do it. i used to hold my insulinoma ferrets on my lap, held them under their arms so they could not get away, then held the plate up to their face and made them eat as much as possible. only then would i go to work or school.

go to the medical section and read the insulinoma overview. it should answer some questions.

[miamiferret2]

Jun 29, 2014 13:37:58 GMT -5 bitbyter said:

No unfortunately you cannot treat existing insulinoma with diet alone. A raw diet will definitely help keep his blood sugar more stable (smaller drops and it won't spike as high).

You might be able to lower his medication once he is fully on raw but I don't know if I would personally risk it.

As for how to transition, read through some of the switching threads here as examples:

holisticferret60.proboards.com/board/55/archives

btw, if the insulinoma is in its early stages (bg of no less than 70 i'd say), then yes in my experience, you can manage with diet alone. frequent meals, high protein and NO CARBS! no Ferretvites or nutrical or anything else that they make for ferrets and cats that is basically a malt sugar paste.

i have known people who switched their insulinoma ferrets to raw and they were able to decrease their meds even! (do not do this without a vet's consent FIRST obviously).

one thing is certain, i have heard of many raw fed insulinoma ferrets living a much longer time because of their superior diet. for a kibble fed ferret, the average survival rate after diagnosis with insulinoma is about 9 months give or take. rarely do they go longer than a year.

when i read on the facebook groups worried ferret owners asking "how long will my ferret have?" after they are diagnosed with insulinoma, my response is always "what do they eat?" it makes a HUGE difference. it really really does.

[Sherry]

^^^fully agree about the diet !