|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 13:07:18 GMT -5
Really? Even if he's not eating? I've given the chicken chunks and he did eat .8 oz of them, but that's still not much. Okay, we won't think about the kibble anymore. I'll see how he does with the quail. I'm also going to look into better ramps for him in the meantime and see what we can find. Anything would be better than *hoping* he gets up and down okay, or worrying that he'll hurt himself with the fleece from the ramps. Thanks for the reality-check... I will try to stop stressing and will go back to chicken chunks if he won't eat the quail. Enjoy your visitors!
|
|
|
Post by gfountain on May 30, 2014 13:31:04 GMT -5
What's his weight?
Edit: Never mind. I forgot... checking spreadsheet now.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 13:47:59 GMT -5
2lbs 14oz as of yesterday. Lol.
|
|
|
Post by gfountain on May 30, 2014 14:02:20 GMT -5
Ok, the eating slowed when we started bone, and it looks like the chewing started at about the same time. Chewing first... he's still pooping and they're normal poops, right? Blockage IS a concern if he's eaten the fleece, so really watch him for blockage signs.. no poop, thin (pencil-lead thin) poop, straining, vomiting, lethargy. You've given him vaseline, right? That should help, just don't do it too often as it also cleans out the good gut flora. You could also give him 1/2 teaspoon of plain canned pumpkin (not pumpkin pie filling, just plain). Pumpkin doesn't digest and helps push things through. It also bulks up the poops and turns them orange. It also has carbs so it can't be used regularly, but in case of blockage or super runny diarrhea it helps. Hopefully, whatever he ate will pass through on its own and you'll see it in the box. And regarding pooping out of the box.. that's probably protest poops. Now on to the bone.. we may have just moved too quickly for him on bone, so let's slow down. Go back to the smaller chunks of chicken and cut some of the pulverized bony stuff the same size, but only add a few of those chunks to the chicken thigh. Just 3 or 4 bony chunks for now, and we'll start him slow like we did with the actual chicken chunks in the soup. If he works around the bony bits, try to offer them by hand. Once he's eating a few of the bony chunks, start adding a few more each meal, still with the bone pulverized. I'd hold off on the quail for another few days to let him get used to one thing at a time. Right now, let's work on the bone. Once he's doing OK with this, then add a little of the quail each meal, gradually increasing the amount until he's eating only quail instead of chicken. The trick with these guys is to make changes gradually so they don't really realize they're getting something new. And his weight as of yesterday was 2lb 14oz. That's a good weight and it's staying stable. That and his activity level means he's getting enough to eat. Visitors... one of them (bratty teenage girl but one of my daughter's best friends) woke up yelling 'there's a rat in here.. I don't like you rat... go away!' So he did, he went away and pooped in her shoe, lol! He has NEVER pooped in a shoe before... he steals them, he sleeps in them, he drags them around the house, but never once has he ever pooped in one until now. Probably really bad of me, but I laughed and told her it served her right for yelling at him. (dance) My daughter and the girl's sister just calmly told her to either grow up or go stay with her parents at the hotel.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2014 14:11:02 GMT -5
Ok, the eating slowed when we started bone, and it looks like the chewing started at about the same time.You're right, I didn't even think about it. Blockage IS a concern if he's eaten the fleeceYes, we've been SOOO carefully watching poops and activity levels. So far, they are decently frequent, regular, and with no strain whatsoever. I think he's fine, but I'll definitely keep watching him. Right now, let's work on the bone.Okay, can do. I actually had the chicken wings we bought thawing in the fridge today, so I must have read your mind. We'll nix the quail and get him back on chicken, working up to bigger chunks of bone. RE: Shoe poopsO...m...g... You tell mister Slinkee that he's going to get me in TROUBLE at work from laughing so hard! Hahaha way to sock it to her though... Good on him. Can you imagine what he thought? "Oh I'm a rat huh? I bet you've never seen a rat poop this much..."
|
|
|
Post by gfountain on May 31, 2014 18:54:34 GMT -5
So how is Ezra? Eating any bony chunks? Any more fabric poos?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 20:37:15 GMT -5
Hey there. I took the day off work, and the next 2 days as well, so I'm on my phone until we get wifi set up at home again.
I'll keep updating the spreadsheet for you to check at any time. He ate a good amount of the bone-in yesterday, with visible chunks of bone about 1/4th the size of my pinky nail in his stool. We gave chicken heart this AM to keep taurine levels up, and we bought beef kidney at a Fiesta store in the city today to be sure he has a secondary organ.
I also went back to page 2 of this thread to see the menu you posted and you're totally right, the main menu that I've seen all over the forum doesn't even have 1.5 meals of heart! How weird!
Fabric poops... yes, sort of. There was a ball of fuzz, like he might have been gnawing, but not chewing and swallowing, the fleece. I gave .5 tsp of vaseline and will keep watching him. We'll buy denim the next time we see something like this, because it can't keep happening and we can't strip him of his fleece either, without something in its place. I will keep you updated. No other symptoms of blockage.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 22:06:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by gfountain on Jun 1, 2014 8:26:47 GMT -5
Oh, I'm so proud of Ezra!!!! He's eating that meat like he's been doing it his whole life! And eating the bone too.. That's great! And that was chicken, right? So the next step is to start introducing new proteins a little at a time the same way you did with the slivers and the bone. Mix them into what he's already eating and then gradually increase the amount of new while still increasing chunk size and bone. The bone in the poo is perfectly normal. I remember freaking out the first time I saw it like that. It looked like pieces of rubber the size of sunflower seeds and I panicked.
Have you tried any other kind of cloth in the cage besides the fleece? Before spending a chunk of money on denim (that stuff is expensive) you could try t-shirts or sheets/pillowcases, or even towels although I've heard of ferrets getting their toenails caught in the terry cloth. It could also be that the fuzz you're still seeing is from before you removed the fleece. Have you noticed any new holes anywhere?
You'll most likely have to hide the beef kidney in something else. It seems to have a strong taste and my kids don't like it by itself, even Minnie who will eat anything.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 14:23:01 GMT -5
I haven't noticed holes, but then again he's not pooping fleece - just the fuzzy little fur that can be pulled off of fleece. So it's like he's scratching it up and then eating it. Very weird. We noticed some balding on the hammock, so it's been removed. No holes or balding on the floors. Ramps and pillow are still removed.
We don't have extra t-shirts or blankets, really. We are minimalists in some ways like that. Extra towels, we have, but like you mentioned, I'm not comfortable with the possibility of him getting stuck. We'll get denim to skip some steps, depending on how he does without the hammock now.
We'll use quail as our extra protein for now, and if we run out before we get him eating quail straight, then we'll give him mice instead. He's doing really well woth the bone-in, so we'll keep introducing bigger chunks.
|
|
|
Post by gfountain on Jun 1, 2014 15:07:26 GMT -5
Now that he's eating the bone-in in chunks, you need to get a menu plan in place for the week. So for example: Sun am: Sun pm:
Mon am: Mon pm:
And so on. This is really the easiest way to check that he's getting everything he needs over a week's time.
|
|
|
Post by gfountain on Jun 1, 2014 15:11:23 GMT -5
And he ultimately needs at least 3 proteins, so you could go ahead and start working on the mice too, in addition to the quail. Now that he's eating pretty much everything in smaller chunks, he should be able to move along fairly quickly, moving up to big chunks and then whole prey.
Are poops looking better with the bone?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 17:00:49 GMT -5
Yep I already had a menu planned out and started as of this morning. I planned to run it by you, but pictures are a pain to upload without wifi. Sunday AM: chicken wing bone-in PM: chicken wing bone-in Monday AM: chicken hearts PM: chicken wing bone-in Tuesday AM: beef liver / beef kidney PM: chicken wing bone-in / quail 50:50 Wednesday AM: turkey gizzards PM: chicken wing bone-in / adult mouse 50:50 Thursday AM: chicken heart / chicken liver / beef kidney 50:25:25 PM: chicken wing bone-in (larger chunks) Friday AM: quail PM: chicken wing bone-in / CGH 50:50 Saturday AM: turkey gizzards PM: chicken wing bone-in What do you think? I tried to provide variety without shocking him. It should adhere to the menu you provided as well.
|
|
|
Post by gfountain on Jun 1, 2014 19:51:19 GMT -5
Looks good! If Friday's quail and CGH include the bones.
You're very chicken heavy, understandably so since that's what he's eating right now, but you're introducing mice, turkey, and quail, so that's on the right track. Your liver/kidney mix is correct with half liver, half kidney and you have one and a half meals of heart.
Keep in mind that although you will stick with this menu, HE might not. So you'll need to be very flexible and make adjustments as you go. For example, if he doesn't eat his liver/kidney mix as planned Tues morning, you'll need to serve that again later so he gets enough organs, maybe mixed with something else that he does like. At this point, while he's still fairly new to the bones and organs, you may have to resort to his plain ol' chicken chunks more than you'd like.
Just to clarify, the bone-in meats are still getting smashed & cut into chunks, and you're going to smash and chop the quail and mice, right?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 21:29:16 GMT -5
Yep, both quail and CGH are bone-in. We're chopping everything fairly small at this stage. Bones are pulvarized to pinky-nail or smaller, and actual meat chunks are about the size of my pinky or smaller.
Glad everything else looks good. We're going to start feeding 1.5 oz each meal instead of 2 oz, because he's leaving quite a bit behind most days. If he atarts clearing the bowl, we'll feed more again.
|
|