|
Post by Heather on Oct 21, 2013 22:51:10 GMT -5
Name: Elisa Probert HF Forum Username: ediebird
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? - While researching basic ferret care online before purchasing my ferret, I ran across this forum and some articles.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. - I am mainly interested in a frankenprey type diet, meat and organs plus occasional commercial frozen raw. (though that is mainly for if/when someone else has to care for River for a few days)
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? - This past year I lost a 2 year old cat to kidney failure. This should not have happened, and most likely, had he been on a natural diet, it would not. I THOUGHT I was feeding him a good food, and I was wrong. So now, for obligate carnivores, I will provide a natural diet as I will not have that same thing happen again. I can't watch another one go from seemingly fine to dead over one weekend, If there is any chance of preventing it, I will take it.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? - Yes, yes, and yes. River seems to be only too happy to try new foods, though, so I think she'll make the process easier. LOL
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? - One ferret. River is female, almost 5 months. (born May 19, 2013) She is a Marshall's ferret, and surprisingly not deaf. She seems to be on track, weight-wise. No health problems that have shown themselves at this point, though probably likely that she is mildly Waardenburg-y. I've had her for just over a week, as she wound up being my birthday present to myself. (my birthday is the 3rd, brought her home on the 5th of October)
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) - Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Bites, along with other meats as I can get them
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? - Nope, because I haven't had any ferrets until now. River seems to like new foods though, so if I can train myself right, this will work.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? - I can be lazy and distractable. I need someone to help me stay accountable and on track!
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Every day. And I also have a smartphone I have on me at all times, and I check emails and forums on my breaks at work.
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentor (Hurricanekatt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
|
|
|
Post by katt on Oct 21, 2013 23:23:26 GMT -5
Location: Anchorage, Alaska I became a mentor because... I really like helping people (hence the whole wanting to be a doctor thing ) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, I got him when he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009, Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and he immediately ripped into it and started hissing to keep me away from his tasty prize! Neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first ferret and he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several foreign objects, and is constantly finding new trouble to get into (his nose has a rubber detector in it). He had to have an emergency blockage surgery, which (we believe) ended up being the catalyst that resulted in his IBD. He loves digging the carpet up, or more recently chewing it, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), he will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… He has IBD which we struggled to get control of (and finally succeeded!) with diet. He has recently had a second blockage surgery, and this week he will be getting his second Des implant for juvenile adrenal. He's been a handful, that's for sure! Kneai: male, Silver/Black Roan Mitt. I brought Kenai home towards the end of November 2010 when he was about 7-8 weeks old. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, frankenprey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He finally started shedding some fur and a little winter weight and is slimming up, but he is still a clumsy critter. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I thought Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpleton. He has trouble finding the potty box a lot, and he doesn’t learn very fast. He also is much less physically adept at things – he has trouble climbing and getting into/onto/out of things. He is sloooowly figuring out how to control his floppy body, but he definitely has some developmental delays. But, we love him just the same. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! He is fed frankenprey, f/t roents, and live prey. Unfortunately, his diet is somewhat restricted because of his IBD, but we've finally got a bit of variety back in. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poops were HUGE and smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur. Type of Mentor: In Training! I feed frankenprey, raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and recently added (for treats and supplemental) freeze dried raw and commercially ground raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help with picking a good kibble… My Specialty: Trouble makers! I focus on full switches to raw – no more kibble!
|
|
|
Post by katt on Oct 21, 2013 23:23:46 GMT -5
Let's start off with a detailed description of your current feeding schedule. What are you feeding to each ferret, when, do you give meals or free feed, etc. Then I'll have an idea of where we need to start!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 0:04:18 GMT -5
Currently, I feed twice a day. The morning meal (usually around 9 am) is usually rather large, and lasts her all day, with a smaller meal (almost more of a snack) at night when I get home from work, since she usually finishes off her stashed daytime meal overnight. I think that's basically free feeding.
River eats pretty much everything I offer, not all at once, but over the course of the day.
She eats chicken, boneless or with bones, she will eat cornish game hen, Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Bites in either duck or chicken. She will eat beef liver, but not with the same gusto she eats everything else, so I'll probably switch to chicken liver, which she does gobble down. Chicken hearts are a HUGE favorite, and she will stash those and then greedily wolf them down. (can't blame her, I think they're delicious, though I like mine cooked) I introduced pork this morning, she approached that with caution, but she did eat about an ounce of it along with 1/8 cup of the Nature's Variety. She likes extra virgin olive oil, which probably helped coax her to eat the pork. She averages between 3-4 ounces of food a day. She gets small bits of dehydrated chicken as treats occasionally when we're having a training session.
I'm planning to try beef kidney, lamb, and frog legs. I am trying to work out a schedule for boneless, bone-in, and organs, that will help her stay healthy and grow into the big beautiful ferret I know she can become.
River currently weighs 1 lb, 15 oz (878.8 grams) at 5 months old. (and I just got her Marshall's birth certificate in the mail LOL)
|
|
|
Post by katt on Oct 22, 2013 11:31:09 GMT -5
Great, she is already most of the way there. You have done great so far. For the liver it is best to offer a variety. Keep up the beef liver. You never know if/when she might develop a chicken allergy, you might not be able to get chicken livers, etc and more variety is best anyways. IF something does happen and you can't use chicken liver, you don't want to go through the stress of convincing a sick ferret she does want to eat beef liver. Much better and less stress for all if you keep it in the rotation so she continues to "remember" that it is food. Same goes for other organs and hearts - the more variety you can get your hands on the better. Ferrets are just like us - there are going to be some foods they don't like as much as others. But just because you don't like veggies doesn't mean you shouldn't still eat them. Hearts are Koda's favorite too. Have you been able to try any beef or pork heart? I can't feed beef but one heart (split up of course) can last several meals. haha Keep introducing new meats. Offer the pork for every other meal or so and gradually decrease the olive oil until she will eat it plain. She is young so most new foods shouldn't take long for her to accept. Babies are fantastically easy, I love it. They are as Heather so aptly puts it "little furry tummies with teeth." They eat anything (and everything). Her eating will slow down after a while. When you first switch to raw they tend to eat more to make up for the nutrients they didn't get from kibble that their bodies are craving, and babies are growing and need a lot of extra food. We are also heading into winter, so she should be floofing up for that rather soon as well. Make sure to enjoy her first winter - they will never be that FAT and floofy again. haha RE her "birth certificate" don't be convinced it is totally accurate. The ferret mills are huge and have many, many ferrets. They take kits away from mom young and put them through the procession line neuters, then to a holding facility, then to the stores. During this process the litters get very intermingled and mixed up so there is no way to keep track of which ones were born on which date. Then to make it better many of the stores mix up their certificates. Kenai's "birth certificate" stated that he was like 3-4 months older than he was...he was about 8 weeks old when I got him, tiniest little thing. *rolls eyes* haha Anyways, it may be close to her general litter birth date, just keep in mind it isn't necessarily accurate. End mini rant. Have you started on an initial menu for her? You said you were trying to work out a schedule. Here is the guideline you should follow: 10% heart (1.5 meals) 10% organ (1.5 meals) <- this should be half liver, half other organs (kidney, brain, pancreas, spleen, etc) 7-9 meals bone-in (edible bone - large bones do not count as "bone-in") the rest is boneless, non-heart muscle meat. This can be pork, beef chunks, gizzards, etc. Go ahead and make up a week's menu with each meal (am and pm) based on what she is currently eating. We will change this as we go along but this will give you a feel for creating that balance and working up a menu plan.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 13:04:35 GMT -5
I'm mixing beef and chicken liver together. That way, to get at the stuff she likes, she has to go through the stuff she doesn't love. Seems to be working.
I'll type up a menu based on this week, after I get home from work tonight.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Oct 23, 2013 14:00:43 GMT -5
Great! I'll pop in tonight or tomorrow (have a test coming up so I *might* not have time to pop in tonight but I will try) and we will take it from there.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 22:55:32 GMT -5
Beef kidneys - not a hit. Will continue trying with them though!
Here's a sample menu based on this week so far.
AM
Sunday - Chicken wing Monday - Boneless pork Tuesday - Boneless chicken thighs and gizzards Wednesday - Beef kidney, beef and chicken liver mix Thursday - Frog legs or cornish game hen with bones Friday - Boneless Lamb or turkey Saturday - Chicken wing OR CGH with bones
PM Sunday - chicken wing Monday - NV Raw Bites Duck Tuesday - boneless chicken thighs + gizzards Wednesday - Chicken hearts Thursday - NV Raw Bites Duck Friday - NV Raw Bites Duck Saturday - Chicken Wing OR CGH with bones
Needs work, I know! Still trying to figure out how much River actually will eat in a certain amount of time. Seems like she generally eats about 2 ounces per meal, before she starts stashing. Having been keeping a food journal prior to having a mentor helped a lot with recalling what she's been eating and when! :-)
|
|
|
Post by katt on Oct 24, 2013 17:00:42 GMT -5
There are a few tricks to introduce new meats. You can try drizzling a little salmon oil over them, drizzling a little soup over them (like gravy), mixing slivers into some chunks of a meat she does like (like chicken) - be sure to mix it well so that the chicken juices get all over the new meat slivers to disguise them a bit. You can also make a soup and mix in slivers of the kidney or other new meat and slowly increase the number and size of the slivers while decreasing the soup.
The biggest thing I am noticing right now is bone. How is she doing eating bones? Right now based off of your menus she is not getting enough bone. She should be getting 7-9 meals a week containing edible bone. Is there a reason you are only giving boneless thighs? Crack the leg bone open for her (a hammer or strong hands and poultry shears work well) and she should be able to manage the leg bones pretty well. Turkey and duck are also good bone sources (the larger bones have to be broken to give them a starting point). Just some ideas for more variety of bone types.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 12:22:03 GMT -5
She did super well with the frog legs, but they left her with runny pale poo. (probably since they are fish-belly white and very very wet) She also had some raw egg, which most likely contributed to that. No more egg on frog day. Next time I offer the beef kidneys I'm going to blend them up with a little oil so it's sort of soupy. River does very very well drinking all her soup or any liquid foods.
She does well eating bones. Main reason for the boneless thighs is they were on sale when I went shopping and I thought the commercial raw counted towards bone-in meals. I could phase it out and try to get some non-chicken bones in the menu. Cornish Game Hen, easy to get. Turkey, eh, iffy sometimes, usually drumsticks. Duck tends to be really expensive here. I did find rabbit for a decent price but I have personal issues with feeding rabbit at this time. I'll have to do some looking. Might be a week or so before I can though.
In the meantime I'll grab some CGH and swap some of the other meals with that. I did find beef hearts. I'll mince those extra fine and combine them with the chicken hearts next time I feed them.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Oct 25, 2013 12:51:28 GMT -5
Oh! Sorry. *facepalm* I did not count the commercial raw. Yes if there are bones in the grinds, then those meals DO count towards the bone meals. It is good for them to clean those chompers on bones though and CGH is a fantastic bone source and a good way to add variety. If the frog legs make her have bad poop, you could try mixing it with a bonier meat. Say half a frog leg with a CGH back or some wings. You could also try sprinkling the legs with a little powdered eggshell to see if that firms up her poop. (These are for if removing the egg doesn't work).
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 13:07:30 GMT -5
I think I'll try the eggshell with the frog legs next time. And no raw egg, obviously. I'd hate to end up eliminating something she so clearly enjoyed, so we'll have to experiment with them a little. (though if I start reacting to them, they'll have to go. I have a protein based allergy to fish, shellfish, and the like, and though frog obviously isn't fish, the protein is similar)
I did change my mind for today and tomorrow...she gets a wing today and we'll try the lamb tomorrow. Since I thawed the wings and forgot to thaw the lamb last night!
|
|
|
Post by katt on Oct 25, 2013 13:24:51 GMT -5
Does she like salmon oil? I suggest getting some at some point (fish oil is good too), it is a great supplement and you can use it as a treat, to give meds, or to drizzle over new meats to make them enticing. Olive oil is good for them too, but I try to stick with mostly salmon oil.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 13:36:52 GMT -5
I have to stick with olive oil...Salmon could land me in the hospital. :-( It's a very severe allergy.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Oct 25, 2013 13:40:16 GMT -5
Oh wow, that isn't good. Definitely no salmon oil then! Extra Virgin Olive Oil, and Extra Virgin Coconut Oil are both good. EVOO is thought to help prevent ulcers, and coconut is packed with antioxidants. Both have the fatty oils that will make coats and skin silky soft too.
|
|