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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 8:02:44 GMT -5
Surgery was the first thing we did with my Jack when he had stones. He did really well with surgery and his recovery was really smooth. They kept him at the vet's office a full weekend because he wasn't urinating (it hurts after surgery to pee) so they wouldn't let him come home until they knew everything was moving. They showed me how to express his bladder (make sure they show you this and you are COMFORTABLE doing it), but as soon as I got him home, he hopped in his litter box and started urinating on his own.Best of luck with the exploratory surgery - since they'll be in there have them check out the pancreas too!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 9:34:20 GMT -5
I'm curious - has anyone mentioned the science behind cystine stones and how they form? I've just briefly skimmed articles on it, and it talks about urinary pH levels and salt intake. I'm not sure why specifically the peas/sweet-potatoes content of these grain-free kibbles that tend to be the problem. It's probably partially genetics too, I mean if it was just the kibble, then surely *all* ferrets who ate this for long enough would develop those stones?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 10:50:51 GMT -5
Cynical - the first page of this thread, I summarized the science behind the problem with peas/ sweet potatoes and how these type of stones form. I have a PhD in organic chemistry and currently working as a peptide/ medicinal chemist in drug discovery, so my view is strictly from the chemistry aspect
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 11:14:29 GMT -5
Oh, I must've skipped that part. I'll take a quick read of it later. Speaking of which, I've been reading about insulinoma and there was something in there that talked about C-peptides being used for a diagnostic tool. I'm curious as to how that works? A brief skim of the Wiki article tells me that it's to do with the endocrine pancreas' insulin production, but I'm still far unfamiliar with it. I'm still way unfamiliar with the Wiki article about islet cells too. bitbyter tells me I research a little too deeply, but I believe there's no such thing lol
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 12:49:39 GMT -5
I have a really GREAT pdf that explains (pretty thoroughly) the role of C-peptide and diabetes/ insulinoma. for a long time c-peptide was considered a by-product but many research endeavors have been invested ($$$) into diabetes and its role is becoming more apparent. It's too large for me to upload but I can email it to you if you give me an email addy
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 12:51:38 GMT -5
Are you sure the document can't be shared on a free dropbox account? I'm sure it'd benefit everyone else too if they could understand it in layman's terms.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 12:54:21 GMT -5
But basically, with C-peptide (summing it up as simply as possible), C-peptide has a half-life that's about ten times longer than insulin in the body. (half life is a measure of how long it takes for the body to decrease the concentration of that molecule by half). Pre-insulin is split into insulin and, you guessed it, C-peptide.So instead of following the concentrations of insulin, which changes relatively rapidly (it's half life is in the single minutes), they can follow the concentration of C-peptide which has a half-life in the 20 - 30 minute range.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 12:54:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 12:55:18 GMT -5
You tell me where to put the document cynical
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:07:18 GMT -5
I think you double posted with the earlier reply lol. As for the dropbox, you just need to signup with an email address and you *should* get about a Gigabyte of storage space that you could share publicly. This should be the link for signing up - www.dropbox.com
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:46:00 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 14:31:21 GMT -5
That's interesting - brief skim on first page is telling me that although we used to think it barely did anything (just a biproduct of insulin to check whether there's a problem with insulin production), but it actually has an influence on insulinoma/diabetes patients. I'll take some time to read that a little later As far as your post on the grain-free kibbles go, you mention urinary pH. If my understanding isn't too far off, it's a problem because it therefore starts leeching calcium from the bones? I'm not entirely sure how that works, but definitely something I've come across. Are you familiar with such a thing?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 14:49:30 GMT -5
Bone leeching of alkaline minerals (calcium, magnesium, iron, etc.) can occur when anywhere in the body becomes to acidic. It's all a system of checks and balances. From the view of a chemist, the leeching of calcium from bones into the bladder from acidic urine would only increase the concentration of calcium in the urine. This really isn't going to lead to stones on its own because the "calcium" stones (the most common in humans) is not just calcium but calcium-oxalate which means that they only crystallize when one molecule of oxalate and one molecule of calcium bind to form an insoluble molecule. With amino acids (cystine being a dimer of cysteine) you have two functional groups - a carboxylic acid and an amine - which are extremely sensitive to the pH of their environment. At biological pH, the acid and amine are "happy" and the molecule remains in solution and doesn't aggregate. Once that balance is disturbed, either by an increase (more alkaline) or decrease in pH (more acidic), those molecules become protonated/ deprotonated and their solubility in their environment changes dramatically. Of course, bone leeching has a whole other set of problems...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 16:20:31 GMT -5
EDIT - screw it, far too long and technical on the main board. Are you comfortable pming me a little to brush up on what I understand of cystine and calcium stones?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 20:58:52 GMT -5
I just wanted to let everyone know that Panda had her cystotomy today and did great. They sent one off for analysis. I will post pics when I can. At the end she decided to pass a u-cath to make sure everything was flushed out and out came a stone from her urethra. Seems we did this just in time. She's doing well so far. I'm so relieved!
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